A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[NaiSim]

Lol, the Dothraki are better archers than the Westerosi.

But unless Khal Drogo exchanges his Arakh for a flanged mace like real world Turks and Mongols he'll lose against pretty much all the top fighters in Westeros except maybe Bronn.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

Best Swordsman

1.Garlen Tryell
1a.Jamie
2.Loras
4.Selmy
5.Oberyn
6.The Hound
7.Brienne
8.Mance

Mount relies more on pure strength than actual sword skill

Loras is GOAT level on horseback with the lance but he doesn't belong on a list of top swordsmen. The Hound, Barristan Badass and Mance would all give him that work

I got Syrio above the likes of Brienne aswell.

 

[HookersandIceCream]

Loras is GOAT level on horseback with the lance but he doesn't belong on a list of top swordsmen. The Hound, Barristan Badass and Mance would all give him that work

I got Syrio above the likes of Brienne aswell.

I might have rated him high but hes young as hell remember that. Garlan is considered by man as the best swordsman in the 7 kingdoms. He bests Loras but Loras is better with the Lance and by all accounts very skilled as a swordsman.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

I might have rated him high but hes young as hell remember that. Garlan is considered by man as the best swordsman in the 7 kingdoms. He bests Loras but Loras is better with the Lance and by all accounts very skilled as a swordsman.

True, but if we're figuring potential into the rankings then Jon Snow would hand Mr. Knight of Flowers an L aswell :smugcena:

 

[NaiSim]

Just to give you an idea what a Dothraki attack on a Westerosi army would look like: Battle of Dorylaeum: Crusaders Defeat Muslims during First Crusade | The American Legion's BurnPit

The Battle of Dorylaeum was fought between the armies of the first crusade and a Turkoman tribal army under Seljuk Sultan Kilij Arslan in modern day Turkey. About 10,000 (with further reinforcements of 20,000) Crusaders against 6,000-8,000 Turks.

The Battle At dawn on July 1, the Muslim army launched an attack on the slumbering camp of the crusaders. [The size of the Turkish army has been estimated at between 6000 to 8000 men, possibly as large as 30,000.] The entire force was mounted archers, and their tactics and mobility stunned the Europeans. As the chroniclers of the time reported, “The Turks came upon us from all sides, skirmishing, throwing darts and javelins and shooting arrows from an astonishing range.” The Turks also “began to whistle and chatter and shout at the top of their voices, uttering a diabolical sound,” so in addition to the terrific missile barrage, the Muslim attack was pressed forward with battle cries, screams and the relentless sound of drums.

Bohemond managed to quickly organize numbers of camp followers to carry water to the knights and armed foot soldiers. He had very little time to react and organize his men, however, as the Turks fired and then charged, cutting down numbers of dazed and disoriented Christians as they tried to form lines of battle. While many of the foot soldiers and camp followers huddled together in the camp, fearfully singing, praying and confessing their sins as Turkish arrows cut them down, Bohemond formed up those knights he could rally and tried to blunt the Muslim attack. He also had to restrain his brother, Tancred, and other Normans from impetuously charging the elusive Turkish horse archers. Bohemond's men were united in their reliance on each other for survival. With a tremendous show of courage, the Norman knights bought time for the rest of the army to form a cohesive defense. The helplessness and vulnerability of the pilgrims and camp followers to the archer fire and slashing Turkish swords motivated Bohemond to take a defensive posture. Sending messengers out to find and warn the other crusader army of his situation, the Norman leader sought to preserve his army in the face of the unrelenting Muslim assault. More than 2,000 men reportedly fell victim to the enemy’s arrows over the next several hours. The majority of the casualties were unarmored foot soldiers and pilgrims. With the Turkish horsemen infiltrating sections of the camp, the Italo-Norman force began to fall back toward the riverbank. The Turks found the Western European knight much tougher to kill than the less-armored foot soldier. The knights (who would later be called 'men of iron' by the Saracens) would take numerous missile hits and still fight on. But the Turks had the crusaders virtually surrounded and kept their archers supplied with a constant supply of arrows. Even an armored knight could take only so many hits before he fell. .

Again and again, small groups of mounted knights would make futile charges, only to be forced to fall back, as the elusive Turkish horsemen retired beyond reach of their swords and lances, still pelting them with arrows from their composite bows.

Bohemond could only watch as his army died slowly from the “arrows and javelins…falling as thick as hail, the savage, piercing shrieks of the enemy, and the diabolical swiftness of their cavalry, constantly darting in to the attack and then away again,” as one chronicler described the situation. The crusaders’ morale was failing. The chronicler Fulcher of Chartres wrote, “We were all indeed huddled together like sheep…trembling and frightened, surrounded on all sides by enemies so that we could not turn in any direction…we had no hope of surviving.” After withstanding the Turkish assault for seven hours, just after midday the first relief contingent from the rear column arrived, a group of fifty knights led by Godfrey of Bouillon.

The crusaders eventually won this battle when their reinforcements skillfully maneuvered around the Turks and fell into their rear. At this point the Turkoman army routed. One important difference here would be that according to the books Dothraki NEVER rout or surrender.

 

[MidniteJay]

Neat.

It's looking like the best way to tank the Dothraki is before they invade. They're definitely not sea faring conquerors if they tried to come over and Westeros knew about it. Ironborn, Baratheon, and Redwyne fleets would have put an end to that.

 

[NaiSim]

Neat.

It's looking like the best way to tank the Dothraki is before they invade. They're definitely not sea faring conquerors if they tried to come over and Westeros knew about it. Ironborn, Baratheon, and Redwyne fleets would have put an end to that.

Depends on what the free cities fleets do really. They might not be able to resist Dothraki gold..

 

[Mr. Pink]

Lol, the Dothraki are better archers than the Westerosi.

But unless Khal Drogo exchanges his Arakh for a flanged mace like real world Turks and Mongols he'll lose against pretty much all the top fighters in Westeros except maybe Bronn.

Bronn can't wear armor? He can, just like any other man. He's a lord now, and has been a knight before that. The only reason he didn't wear it in his duel against Vardis Egen was because he was dirt poor and didn't have any.
***

As for Dothraki vs Westeros. I think even in an open field Dothraki don't have much of a chance. They could scare and slaughter the regular peasant levies, but I don't see them standing up to heavy cavalry charges, or top notch spearmen like the Dornishmen.

Beyond the technological advantage, Westeros also has quite a few good military commanders, whereas the notions of strategy and tactics seem alien to the Dothraki. They're good at raiding, not organized battles. See that story about a 20 thousand Khalasar charging into a wall of 3 thousand Unsullied spears over and over again(18 times) untill half the Khalasar was gone.

I'd say even a considerably smaller Westeros army could have given that work to Drogo's army if it was led by someone like Stannis, Randyll Tarly or Robb Stark.

 

[MidniteJay]

Bronn can't wear armor? He can, just like any other man. He's a lord now, and has been a knight before that. The only reason he didn't wear it in his duel against Vardis Egen was because he was dirt poor and didn't have any.
***

As for Dothraki vs Westeros. I think even in an open field Dothraki don't have much of a chance. They could scare and slaughter the regular peasant levies, but I don't see them standing up to heavy cavalry charges, or top notch spearmen like the Dornishmen.

Beyond the technological advantage, Westeros also has quite a few good military commanders, whereas the notions of strategy and tactics seem alien to the Dothraki. They're good at raiding, not organized battles. See that story about a 20 thousand Khalasar charging into a wall of 3 thousand Unsullied spears over and over again(18 times) untill half the Khalasar was gone.

I'd say even a considerably smaller Westeros army could have given that work to Drogo's army if it was led by someone like Stannis, Randyll Tarly or Robb Stark.

They must have had a stupid as fukk Khal.

Howland Reed would be a problem for Dothraki they wear no type of protection and go against nikkas that lace their shyt with poison and fight stealthy. That's a lot of dead Dothraki.

 

[NaiSim]

Bronn can't wear armor? He can, just like any other man. He's a lord now, and has been a knight before that. The only reason he didn't wear it in his duel against Vardis Egen was because he was dirt poor and didn't have any.
***

As for Dothraki vs Westeros. I think even in an open field Dothraki don't have much of a chance. They could scare and slaughter the regular peasant levies, but I don't see them standing up to heavy cavalry charges, or top notch spearmen like the Dornishmen.

Beyond the technological advantage, Westeros also has quite a few good military commanders, whereas the notions of strategy and tactics seem alien to the Dothraki. They're good at raiding, not organized battles. See that story about a 20 thousand Khalasar charging into a wall of 3 thousand Unsullied spears over and over again(18 times) untill half the Khalasar was gone.

I'd say even a considerably smaller Westeros army could have given that work to Drogo's army if it was led by someone like Stannis, Randyll Tarly or Robb Stark.

Relax honey pie. If you notice I put "maybe" for Bronn because I thought the same thing. You have to remember two things though, fighting in armor is something you have to get used to so he'd automatically lose some of his skill. Also it seems the tv show has turned Bronn into a halfwit who abhors armor altogether.

As for the Dothraki, if anything on the open field they're invincible. Light ranged cavalry will make short work of heavy cavalry if they have room to maneuver. And Westerosi armies seems to have a 10/90 cavalry/infantry ratio. With their peasants being unarmored they're even more fukked in the open field, because every Dothraki will be slinging arrows and javelins constantly.

 

[MidniteJay]

Depends on what the free cities fleets do really. They might not be able to resist Dothraki gold..

:thinking:

Do they have a reputed fleet?

 

[NaiSim]

:thinking:

Do they have a reputed fleet?

They're all sea powers. Bravos alone has the strongest fleet in the world. Then you got Volantis sending hundreds of galleys to attack Mereen. Add to that Pentos, Myr, Tyrosh, Lys etc. etc.

 

[BonafideDefacto]

I was here at work going thru the Song of Fire and Ice forums reading there responses to the best swordsmen question. Cotdayam they go in depth there. Lots of great arguments.

Finally found a place close by my job that has A Feast For Crows. Got it on hold, grabbing it on my way home.

 

[Bboystyle]

Does they sword trainer who was teaching Arya survive that attack by the guards and make it out of kings landing alive?

 

[T-K-G]

Does they sword trainer who was teaching Arya survive that attack by the guards and make it out of kings landing alive?

:weezy:








c'mon fam