A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[MidniteJay]

There seems to be a very credible show spoiler going around Reddit

I'm actually going to spoiler tag it even in this thread, because even book readers may not want to read it. It is a potential change from the books so it will spoil the show, but it also has potential major implications for what may become of a certain character in Winds of Winter.

Based on the circumstances around how the spoiler started, I would say there is a solid 60/40 chance of it being legit

Spoiler

Jon leads a ranging party to Hardhome where they encounter White Walkers. As the Nights Watch/Wildlings try to flee, Jon tries to get them to stay and fight. They stab him in revolt. As he lays dying, the White Walkers scoop him up and put him on the back of their horse and ride off to end the season

I am more excited to see Hardhome than I've been about any change the show has made. I was pissed we weren't going to see it in ADWD. We are about to be book spoiled like crazy this season. Dead things in the water.

Spoiler: Meanwhile... holy fukk

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..."

Holy shyt.

Getting stabbed up burns. I just realized that every I've ever heard someone talk about being knifed, either in fiction or real life, it's always "feels like being on fire". I've never heard it compared to "the cold". Initially, I took that line metaphorically, "only the cold = deathtime". If that is supposed to be taken literally, then "only the cold" means Jon stopped getting stabbed up because the white walkers show up.

Mother fukker.

This really sounds right.

Captain White Walker Jon Snow.

I think I believe. I think I really, really believe.

Spoiler

So does that mean Jon Snow isn't Azor Ahai? Kind of throws that theory in the bushes if he's turned into a White Walker right?

 

[The Watcher]

Spoiler

So does that mean Jon Snow isn't Azor Ahai? Kind of throws that theory in the bushes if he's turned into a White Walker right?

Spoiler: I know nothing

10 minutes ago I was convinced Jon Snow was dead and in Ghost, just waiting for the Red Lady to lay down the resurrection fire voodoo. No one could tell me anything. I was sure this is what was happening. Now I am convinced Jon Snow doesn't die at all and is going to become Lord White of House Walker

This is why this series is insane. GRRM doesn't just reference Lovecraft, he's dropped us all into some crazy alternative universe where everything makes sense and nothing makes sense and we're all destined to read ourselves in circles until he drops dead without giving us the answers. 100 years from now, people will still be on a message board somewhere, convincingly arguing (textual evidence, theory timeline, hand-drawn map and all) that Hot Pie is Azor Ahai and that the dragons really did come from the moon.

 

[Devilinurear]

Spoiler: I know nothing

10 minutes ago I was convinced Jon Snow was dead and in Ghost, just waiting for the Red Lady to lay down the resurrection fire voodoo. No one could tell me anything. I was sure this is what was happening. Now I am convinced Jon Snow doesn't die at all and is going to become Lord White of House Walker

This is why this series is insane. GRRM doesn't just reference Lovecraft, he's dropped us all into some crazy alternative universe where everything makes sense and nothing makes sense and we're all destined to read ourselves in circles until he drops dead without giving us the answers. 100 years from now, people will still be on a message board somewhere, convincingly arguing (textual evidence, theory timeline, hand-drawn map and all) that Hot Pie is Azor Ahai and that the dragons really did come from the moon.

Hot Pie is Azor Ahai reborn
born of salt and smoke----------------hot pie is a expert cook and cooks are born in salt in smoke

 

[Adam3000]

Before people take the spoiler as 'truth', here is everything about it. Decide for yourself if you want to set up your expectations.


25 days ago, Reddit user "littlebirdieknows" posted this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/com...ll_what_would_be_undoubted_proof_that/cnio9to

That was this users only post on Reddit, so they signed up under that name just to post that comment. It was skimmed over in the original thread as just an interesting theory, but remember this was long before the S5 trailer showed us what appeared to be Hardhome.

So once we saw Hardhome (or what appears to probably be Hardhome) in the trailer, plus Jon fighting, plus Wildlings fleeing into the water, this spoiler seemed to gain quite a bit of credibility. It was very cryptic that this person posted nothing else. Actually, at one point they did have 2 others posts, but both of them were just saying "yep" in response to if Hardhome would be in S5. Both comments have been deleted because they were part of a deleted thread.

Now.....that being said.....there was this post 2 months ago:
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2npj40/spoilers_all_nights_king_in_season_5/

This user has proven to have inside knowledge, and they said that Hardhome would be in the show over a month before "littlebirdieknows" did. Its possible that littlebirdieknows actually knows jack shyt and was just pulling stuff out of his ass

So it could all be bullshyt. I guess we will find out as the season progresses, how things are shaping up

 

[dennis roadman]

Before people take the spoiler as 'truth', here is everything about it. Decide for yourself if you want to set up your expectations.


25 days ago, Reddit user "littlebirdieknows" posted this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/com...ll_what_would_be_undoubted_proof_that/cnio9to

That was this users only post on Reddit, so they signed up under that name just to post that comment. It was skimmed over in the original thread as just an interesting theory, but remember this was long before the S5 trailer showed us what appeared to be Hardhome.

So once we saw Hardhome (or what appears to probably be Hardhome) in the trailer, plus Jon fighting, plus Wildlings fleeing into the water, this spoiler seemed to gain quite a bit of credibility. It was very cryptic that this person posted nothing else. Actually, at one point they did have 2 others posts, but both of them were just saying "yep" in response to if Hardhome would be in S5. Both comments have been deleted because they were part of a deleted thread.

Now.....that being said.....there was this post 2 months ago:
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2npj40/spoilers_all_nights_king_in_season_5/

This user has proven to have inside knowledge, and they said that Hardhome would be in the show over a month before "littlebirdieknows" did. Its possible that littlebirdieknows actually knows jack shyt and was just pulling stuff out of his ass

So it could all be bullshyt. I guess we will find out as the season progresses, how things are shaping up

could lend credence to the idea that Others aren't the enemy after all. i kinda wanna believe that, because i'm pretty confident that fukking Wall is coming down, and not necessarily to the chagrin of those living south of it

 

[The Watcher]

Before people take the spoiler as 'truth', here is everything about it. Decide for yourself if you want to set up your expectations.


25 days ago, Reddit user "littlebirdieknows" posted this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/com...ll_what_would_be_undoubted_proof_that/cnio9to

That was this users only post on Reddit, so they signed up under that name just to post that comment. It was skimmed over in the original thread as just an interesting theory, but remember this was long before the S5 trailer showed us what appeared to be Hardhome.

So once we saw Hardhome (or what appears to probably be Hardhome) in the trailer, plus Jon fighting, plus Wildlings fleeing into the water, this spoiler seemed to gain quite a bit of credibility. It was very cryptic that this person posted nothing else. Actually, at one point they did have 2 others posts, but both of them were just saying "yep" in response to if Hardhome would be in S5. Both comments have been deleted because they were part of a deleted thread.

Now.....that being said.....there was this post 2 months ago:
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2npj40/spoilers_all_nights_king_in_season_5/

This user has proven to have inside knowledge, and they said that Hardhome would be in the show over a month before "littlebirdieknows" did. Its possible that littlebirdieknows actually knows jack shyt and was just pulling stuff out of his ass

So it could all be bullshyt. I guess we will find out as the season progresses, how things are shaping up

Even if it's bullshyt, you gotta respect the troll game.
I'm reevaluating everything thanks to this post.


This is why I don't even fukk around on r/asoiaf. They will have my head twisted and I'll be questioning my own last name by the end of it all.

 

[JMurder]

Just finished reading ADWD

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

Brothers and sisters in this noble fandom, I beesech your help. Why do some think the white walkers aren't inherently evil? Didn't they go to town on Ser Waymar (?) Royce and the other two NW's men in the first book prologue? And didn't the NW led by Commander Mormont have a battle with them when they were out ranging? Maybe they're not evil but they don't seem exactly helpful to me. Am I misremembering something?

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

Brothers and sisters in this noble fandom, I beesech your help. Why do some think the white walkers aren't inherently evil? Didn't they go to town on Ser Waymar (?) Royce and the other two NW's men in the first book prologue? And didn't the NW led by Commander Mormont have a battle with them when they were out ranging? Maybe they're not evil but they don't seem exactly helpful to me. Am I misremembering something?

well i mean they are killing everything they cross paths with?

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Brothers and sisters in this noble fandom, I beesech your help. Why do some think the white walkers aren't inherently evil? Didn't they go to town on Ser Waymar (?) Royce and the other two NW's men in the first book prologue? And didn't the NW led by Commander Mormont have a battle with them when they were out ranging? Maybe they're not evil but they don't seem exactly helpful to me. Am I misremembering something?

They are people who died and come back to life. Plus they are mostly white. Maybe they are angels? lol

 

[Adam3000]

Brothers and sisters in this noble fandom, I beesech your help. Why do some think the white walkers aren't inherently evil? Didn't they go to town on Ser Waymar (?) Royce and the other two NW's men in the first book prologue? And didn't the NW led by Commander Mormont have a battle with them when they were out ranging? Maybe they're not evil but they don't seem exactly helpful to me. Am I misremembering something?

My point of view:

Speaking strictly from a book perspective with no other evidence, I don't think that Waymar's murder can be looked at as an evil action, without understanding context. We don't have that context. Whats to say that the Others don't think of the humans as a threat invading their land? We don't know their line of thinking, or their place in history.

Same with the battle with Mormont and the Nights Watch.....the NW was waaaaayyy north of the Wall. They were encroaching on Others territory. What if this impending war is a pre-emptive strike from the Others to ward off what they consider to be 'human evil'?

Its the same idea as fighting a real life war. Every side thinks the other side is inherently evil. But neither are inherently evil, without first understanding the context.

Speaking from a non-book perspective, GRRM has flat out said that they are not inherently evil. Lemme dig around and see if I can find the exact quote.....

 

[Adam3000]

I may be wrong about GRRM saying they "aren't evil" because I can't find that quote

I know I have read various passages where he has hinted that they may be misunderstood and more complex than at first glance. There is a huge section on Westeros.org of old email correspondences from decades past, I'm not going to fish through all that again.

How can the Others be considered more evil than dragons/R'hollor though? Just because dragons can have human riders? Thats not a reason. They are two sides to the same coin IMO

 

[KatieGotAzzHairs]

My point of view:

Speaking strictly from a book perspective with no other evidence, I don't think that Waymar's murder can be looked at as an evil action, without understanding context. We don't have that context. Whats to say that the Others don't think of the humans as a threat invading their land? We don't know their line of thinking, or their place in history.

Same with the battle with Mormont and the Nights Watch.....the NW was waaaaayyy north of the Wall. They were encroaching on Others territory. What if this impending war is a pre-emptive strike from the Others to ward off what they consider to be 'human evil'?

Its the same idea as fighting a real life war. Every side thinks the other side is inherently evil. But neither are inherently evil, without first understanding the context.

Speaking from a non-book perspective, GRRM has flat out said that they are not inherently evil. Lemme dig around and see if I can find the exact quote.....

Hmmm I guess when you look at it like a real life war then no they wouldn't be inherently evil. I guess I'm assigning my own narrative bias of mysterious undead creatures being the ultimate evil in the world. And when they killed Waymar and crew, I thought these are bad dudes and just stuck with that when I read all of the NW panicking over them. I never thought to think of there being an other-side. I was treating them like they were zombies smh.

I always thought of dragons as the ultimate war animal, so I never thought of them as evil or good. It depends on what the rider wants to do with them. I guess you can take that view of the wights as well, though so again you make sense.

 

[Chris Cool]

To the surprise of absolutely no one, Winds of Winter won't be dropping this year.

I'll be done forgot everything by the time this shyt drops. smfh.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

i JUST saw the trailer for season 5