A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[Malik]

Halfway thru World of Ice and Fire and man the andals gave zero fukks

Swept thru The Children of the Forest and The First Men like nothing

Shout out those Kings Of Winter though

And Ser Twyin

Tywin was out there bossing up at 18

His father Tytos was weak willed bytch. Tywin and his brothers were only teenagers but came back from the Blackfyre Rebellion hard and bout that life, saw how bytchmade their father was and it was a wrap for all the Westerland houses that kept getting outta pocket Tywin let the Tarbecks and the Reynes know they owed that scrilla Tytos bytch ass told them everything was forgiven because he didn't want war. Tywin aint forgive shyt though He burned Tarbeck Hall to the ground, then sealed up the Reyne's castle, trapped all the Reynes underground in the caves and diverted a nearby dam's water into the cave until it flooded. Homie was cold

I love how much detail it gives on Aerys and Tywin. It makes you see the Rebellion in a different light. Aerys, Tywin and Steffon Baratheon were best friends growing up in King's Landing. It makes sense Aerys would choose Tywin as his hand. It makes sense Aerys would trust Steffon to find Rhaegar a wife overseas. Showing that Aerys was a good man once who had lofty ideas but, was lazy while Tywin was all about business shows how Aerys became bitter. He thought he'd be the GOAT king but, instead people respected Tywin and knew he was the one really running things. Aerys became so bitter he would go against Tywin's advice just to show he was King denied his daughter Cersei and forced his only heir to forfeit his claim and become a Kingsguard Back to the Steffon Baratheon thing.....that shows the anger Robert Baratheon already had for Rhaegar. Not only did this silver haired faggit take your bytch and humiliate you in front of the Seven Kingdoms, your father and your mother DIED AT SEA trying to find a wife for this ungrateful muthafukka few years earlier I'd killed that nikka too

 

[MidniteJay]

Tywin was out there bossing up at 18

His father Tytos was weak willed bytch. Tywin and his brothers were only teenagers but came back from the Blackfyre Rebellion hard and bout that life, saw how bytchmade their father was and it was a wrap for all the Westerland houses that kept getting outta pocket Tywin let the Tarbecks and the Reynes know they owed that scrilla Tytos bytch ass told them everything was forgiven because he didn't want war. Tywin aint forgive shyt though He burned Tarbeck Hall to the ground, then sealed up the Reyne's castle, trapped all the Reynes underground in the caves and diverted a nearby dam's water into the cave until it flooded. Homie was cold

I love how much detail it gives on Aerys and Tywin. It makes you see the Rebellion in a different light. Aerys, Tywin and Steffon Baratheon were best friends growing up in King's Landing. It makes sense Aerys would choose Tywin as his hand. It makes sense Aerys would trust Steffon to find Rhaegar a wife overseas. Showing that Aerys was a good man once who had lofty ideas but, was lazy while Tywin was all about business shows how Aerys became bitter. He thought he'd be the GOAT king but, instead people respected Tywin and knew he was the one really running things. Aerys became so bitter he would go against Tywin's advice just to show he was King denied his daughter Cersei and forced his only heir to forfeit his claim and become a Kingsguard Back to the Steffon Baratheon thing.....that shows the anger Robert Baratheon already had for Rhaegar. Not only did this silver haired faggit take your bytch and humiliate you in front of the Seven Kingdoms, your father and your mother DIED AT SEA trying to find a wife for this ungrateful muthafukka few years earlier I'd killed that nikka too

Steffon Baratheon and Tywin were best friends? It's starting to make sense why Aerys wanted Robert's head when Brandon Stark called out Rhaegar.

 

[Malik]

Steffon Baratheon and Tywin were best friends? It's starting to make sense why Aerys wanted Robert's head when Brandon Stark called out Rhaegar.

When they were kids....Tywin and Steffon were squires in King's Landing when they were boys. Gotta remember, Aerys and Steffon were already first cousins too, so they was family.

Aegon V's son Jaeharys is Aerys' dad.
Aegon V's daughter Rhaelle was Steffon's mother.

Tywin was a young goon, so Aerys and Steffon fukked with him off gp. And that was the crew. Funny their kids ended up killing each other


The Mad King was batshyt crazy but, he wasn't that crazy. He knew Rhaegar was moving to get him off the throne. He knew Rhaegar set up the Tourney at Harrenhal to meet with all the lords. He saw how Rikard Stark had Southron ambitions and was uniting with House Tully, House Baratheon and House Arryn......he saw all these great houses mobilizing And he was already paranoid after the Defiance at Duskendale where he found out the hard way even he could get touched So yea....from his prospective, the Baratheons were supposed to be his ace c00n boons but, they was secretly forming like Voltron with the same nikkas he was paranoid about. But like I said The Mad King again was crazy. Let's not forget that. The only reason he was scared about the Stark/Baratheon/Tully/Arryn bloc was because he thought Rhaegar was working with them. So it would've worked in his interest to let Brandon Stark fight Rhaegar, and possibly kill the prince, keep control and groom Viserys to take over. Aerys went from hating Rhaegar with all his heart to starting a rebellion over him in two seconds He also begged for Tywin to come save King's Landing after Rhaegar died and it was clear he lost the war. Yea....yall was best friends as kids.....but since then, you tried to fukk his wife , made jokes about her titties in front of the realm, publicly humiliated him several times, took his only heir as a Kingsguard out of spite, said fukk you when he gave you his daughter's hand for your son and was just an all around dikk head. But Aerys thought he would come to his rescue. Homie wasnt working with all his marbles.

 

[Big Dick]

When they were kids....Tywin and Steffon were squires in King's Landing when they were boys. Gotta remember, Aerys and Steffon were already first cousins too, so they was family.

Aegon V's son Jaeharys is Aerys' dad.
Aegon V's daughter Rhaelle was Steffon's mother.

Tywin was a young goon, so Aerys and Steffon fukked with him off gp. And that was the crew. Funny their kids ended up killing each other


The Mad King was batshyt crazy but, he wasn't that crazy. He knew Rhaegar was moving to get him off the throne. He knew Rhaegar set up the Tourney at Harrenhal to meet with all the lords. He saw how Rikard Stark had Southron ambitions and was uniting with House Tully, House Baratheon and House Arryn......he saw all these great houses mobilizing And he was already paranoid after the Defiance at Duskendale where he found out the hard way even he could get touched So yea....from his prospective, the Baratheons were supposed to be his ace c00n boons but, they was secretly forming like Voltron with the same nikkas he was paranoid about. But like I said The Mad King again was crazy. Let's not forget that. The only reason he was scared about the Stark/Baratheon/Tully/Arryn bloc was because he thought Rhaegar was working with them. So it would've worked in his interest to let Brandon Stark fight Rhaegar, and possibly kill the prince, keep control and groom Viserys to take over. Aerys went from hating Rhaegar with all his heart to starting a rebellion over him in two seconds He also begged for Tywin to come save King's Landing after Rhaegar died and it was clear he lost the war. Yea....yall was best friends as kids.....but since then, you tried to fukk his wife , made jokes about her titties in front of the realm, publicly humiliated him several times, took his only heir as a Kingsguard out of spite, said fukk you when he gave you his daughter's hand for your son and was just an all around dikk head. But Aerys thought he would come to his rescue. Homie wasnt working with all his marbles.

All of this from the newest book? World of Fire and Ice? Awesome stuff

 

[MidniteJay]

When they were kids....Tywin and Steffon were squires in King's Landing when they were boys. Gotta remember, Aerys and Steffon were already first cousins too, so they was family.

Aegon V's son Jaeharys is Aerys' dad.
Aegon V's daughter Rhaelle was Steffon's mother.

Tywin was a young goon, so Aerys and Steffon fukked with him off gp. And that was the crew. Funny their kids ended up killing each other


The Mad King was batshyt crazy but, he wasn't that crazy. He knew Rhaegar was moving to get him off the throne. He knew Rhaegar set up the Tourney at Harrenhal to meet with all the lords. He saw how Rikard Stark had Southron ambitions and was uniting with House Tully, House Baratheon and House Arryn......he saw all these great houses mobilizing And he was already paranoid after the Defiance at Duskendale where he found out the hard way even he could get touched So yea....from his prospective, the Baratheons were supposed to be his ace c00n boons but, they was secretly forming like Voltron with the same nikkas he was paranoid about. But like I said The Mad King again was crazy. Let's not forget that. The only reason he was scared about the Stark/Baratheon/Tully/Arryn bloc was because he thought Rhaegar was working with them. So it would've worked in his interest to let Brandon Stark fight Rhaegar, and possibly kill the prince, keep control and groom Viserys to take over. Aerys went from hating Rhaegar with all his heart to starting a rebellion over him in two seconds He also begged for Tywin to come save King's Landing after Rhaegar died and it was clear he lost the war. Yea....yall was best friends as kids.....but since then, you tried to fukk his wife , made jokes about her titties in front of the realm, publicly humiliated him several times, took his only heir as a Kingsguard out of spite, said fukk you when he gave you his daughter's hand for your son and was just an all around dikk head. But Aerys thought he would come to his rescue. Homie wasnt working with all his marbles.

Really can't blame Tywin. Dude was doing good for the realm and he got shytted on for it. I would have benched myself for the rebellion like too.

 

[Malik]

Really can't blame Tywin. Dude was doing good for the realm and he got shytted on for it. I would have benched myself for the rebellion like too.

Yea. Nobody's really the bad guy. They all had their motivations. Tywin definitely had his.

I forgot about the Lannisters. The Mad King not only had to worry about Stark-Baratheon-Tully uniting via marriage (plus Arryn because of Ned fostering there), it was rumored that Tywin Lannister INITIALLY wanted to marry Jaime to Lysa Tully, Cat's sister. That would have made it North-Stormlands-Riverlands-Westerlands + the Vale all united in some way So if I'm a crazy tyrant that knows people hate me and want me out of there, I"m shook right now. So him making Jaime a Kingsguard was as much as sonning Tywin as it was about making sure the Lannisters didn't get attached to the growing axis.

 

[The Watcher]

Yea. Nobody's really the bad guy. They all had their motivations. Tywin definitely had his.

I forgot about the Lannisters. The Mad King not only had to worry about Stark-Baratheon-Tully uniting via marriage (plus Arryn because of Ned fostering there), it was rumored that Tywin Lannister INITIALLY wanted to marry Jaime to Lysa Tully, Cat's sister. That would have made it North-Stormlands-Riverlands-Westerlands + the Vale all united in some way So if I'm a crazy tyrant that knows people hate me and want me out of there, I"m shook right now. So him making Jaime a Kingsguard was as much as sonning Tywin as it was about making sure the Lannisters didn't get attached to the growing axis.

The mad king also had Varys talking shyt in his ear all the time, confirming his paranoia.

I always wondered why Varys was allowed to live and stick around on the council after the rebellion, I know Robert was willing to forgive his enemies if they bowed to him, but keeping Varys in a power position makes absolutely no sense. Even if his shyt talking benefited Robert by keeping the Mad King going in circles or Varys claimed that he was doing it to help the Lannisters, he was still a shifty fukk who obviously had his own end game in mind. I would've shipped his bald ass to the wall.

 

[Soundbwoy]

Tywin was out there bossing up at 18

His father Tytos was weak willed bytch. Tywin and his brothers were only teenagers but came back from the Blackfyre Rebellion hard and bout that life, saw how bytchmade their father was and it was a wrap for all the Westerland houses that kept getting outta pocket Tywin let the Tarbecks and the Reynes know they owed that scrilla Tytos bytch ass told them everything was forgiven because he didn't want war. Tywin aint forgive shyt though He burned Tarbeck Hall to the ground, then sealed up the Reyne's castle, trapped all the Reynes underground in the caves and diverted a nearby dam's water into the cave until it flooded. Homie was cold

I love how much detail it gives on Aerys and Tywin. It makes you see the Rebellion in a different light. Aerys, Tywin and Steffon Baratheon were best friends growing up in King's Landing. It makes sense Aerys would choose Tywin as his hand. It makes sense Aerys would trust Steffon to find Rhaegar a wife overseas. Showing that Aerys was a good man once who had lofty ideas but, was lazy while Tywin was all about business shows how Aerys became bitter. He thought he'd be the GOAT king but, instead people respected Tywin and knew he was the one really running things. Aerys became so bitter he would go against Tywin's advice just to show he was King denied his daughter Cersei and forced his only heir to forfeit his claim and become a Kingsguard Back to the Steffon Baratheon thing.....that shows the anger Robert Baratheon already had for Rhaegar. Not only did this silver haired faggit take your bytch and humiliate you in front of the Seven Kingdoms, your father and your mother DIED AT SEA trying to find a wife for this ungrateful muthafukka few years earlier I'd killed that nikka too

breh you are to the book review what obarth was to the tv reviews, can we get more

 

[FatherSimp]

Tywin was out there bossing up at 18

His father Tytos was weak willed bytch. Tywin and his brothers were only teenagers but came back from the Blackfyre Rebellion hard and bout that life, saw how bytchmade their father was and it was a wrap for all the Westerland houses that kept getting outta pocket Tywin let the Tarbecks and the Reynes know they owed that scrilla Tytos bytch ass told them everything was forgiven because he didn't want war. Tywin aint forgive shyt though He burned Tarbeck Hall to the ground, then sealed up the Reyne's castle, trapped all the Reynes underground in the caves and diverted a nearby dam's water into the cave until it flooded. Homie was cold

I love how much detail it gives on Aerys and Tywin. It makes you see the Rebellion in a different light. Aerys, Tywin and Steffon Baratheon were best friends growing up in King's Landing. It makes sense Aerys would choose Tywin as his hand. It makes sense Aerys would trust Steffon to find Rhaegar a wife overseas. Showing that Aerys was a good man once who had lofty ideas but, was lazy while Tywin was all about business shows how Aerys became bitter. He thought he'd be the GOAT king but, instead people respected Tywin and knew he was the one really running things. Aerys became so bitter he would go against Tywin's advice just to show he was King denied his daughter Cersei and forced his only heir to forfeit his claim and become a Kingsguard Back to the Steffon Baratheon thing.....that shows the anger Robert Baratheon already had for Rhaegar. Not only did this silver haired faggit take your bytch and humiliate you in front of the Seven Kingdoms, your father and your mother DIED AT SEA trying to find a wife for this ungrateful muthafukka few years earlier I'd killed that nikka too

Bruh reading that shyt made me like Tywin and I'm Stark stan

All of this from the newest book? World of Fire and Ice? Awesome stuff

Get the book the histories of the older Kings are crazy

Them fukkers from Dorne though

House Martell words fit them so perfectly

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

 

[dennis roadman]

i just finished jaime's one chapter in ADWD and realized i wasn't gonna get ANY light shed on what comes next until 2038

i always thought jaime's to be the most boring chapters, even though i enjoyed them. it was just getting good and then it just cuts me off

@Adam3000 i didnt wanna read through the theory discussion you started because i saw things i haven't yet got to (got about 350 pages left in the series + dunk n egg) but why do you say Coldhands isn't Benjen? am i gonna find out more, because i dont see who else it could be at this point

on another note entirely, most interesting part of AWOFIAF is how the baratheons were key to the targaryens' conquering westeros to begin with. only to have a couple hundred years go by and have a baratheon snatch it back

 

[Adam3000]

i just finished jaime's one chapter in ADWD and realized i wasn't gonna get ANY light shed on what comes next until 2038

i always thought jaime's to be the most boring chapters, even though i enjoyed them. it was just getting good and then it just cuts me off

@Adam3000 i didnt wanna read through the theory discussion you started because i saw things i haven't yet got to (got about 350 pages left in the series + dunk n egg) but why do you say Coldhands isn't Benjen? am i gonna find out more, because i dont see who else it could be at this point

on another note entirely, most interesting part of AWOFIAF is how the baratheons were key to the targaryens' conquering westeros to begin with. only to have a couple hundred years go by and have a baratheon snatch it back

Three reasons:

1) He is described as being killed "a long time ago" which wouldn't fit with Benjen
2) He wasn't in the TV series, but Benjen was. Would make no sense to cut Coldhands if he was Benjen
3) The ultimate smoking gun.....GRRM's own words in response to his editor's notes on the ADWD manuscript:stored in Texas A&M's Cushing library:

 

[dennis roadman]

Three reasons:
3) The ultimate smoking gun.....GRRM's own words in response to his editor's notes on the ADWD manuscript:stored in Texas A&M's Cushing library:

oh shyt

who the fukk is Coldhands then? does this cast doubt on those NW brehs he killed being the ones who killed mormont?

another random unrelated thought: deepest parts of the whole series so far have been cat and robb meeting to discuss strategy at King Tristifer's grave and the septon's speech about broken men everyone talks about the speech but two desperate tacticians hashing out a gameplan on the grave of a great king everyone forgot about centuries ago is just haunting. despite their dignity and valor, they really wasn't shyt in the grand scheme of things (this is echoed repeatedly imo, with king's landing neglecting the NW, king robert always brushing off issues in the summer isles, ned stark not worrying about dany in the least - even though he was right about that one).

 

[Adam3000]

I don't think anyone has a good theory for Coldhands. It is a pure crapshoot at this point. I'm leaning towards him just being a random old ranger in the Nights Watch, no one important. Maybe someone who served under Bloodraven. The way I look at it is, why does he have to be someone important? Just being Coldhands makes him important, he doesn't need to be anyone else. Who knows though.

I don't think it casts doubt on the ones he killed being the Mormont killers though. He is still Nights Watch even if he isn't Benjen. GRRM closed the Crasters Keep storyline there I think.

 

[dennis roadman]

I don't think anyone has a good theory for Coldhands. It is a pure crapshoot at this point. I'm leaning towards him just being a random old ranger in the Nights Watch, no one important. Maybe someone who served under Bloodraven. The way I look at it is, why does he have to be someone important? Just being Coldhands makes him important, he doesn't need to be anyone else. Who knows though.

I don't think it casts doubt on the ones he killed being the Mormont killers though. He is still Nights Watch even if he isn't Benjen. GRRM closed the Crasters Keep storyline there I think.

i think the mysterious nature of him implies some truth will be uncovered. you could be right though. was i to presume the dragonglass jon found while ranging was left by benjen? because when i think about the cache of dragonglass and some random dead ranger helping kids get to the Children for whatever reason, it paints a picture of dead rangers everywhere past the wall, making up as much of the ecosystem of the area as any other group, human or otherwise.

the mystery that has to be explained in regards to coldhands, in my opinion, is why he's not an evil killer like the rest of the wights. keep in mind i haven't yet finished ADWD and i know jon is currently investigating how a wight's mind works, so maybe i'm in the dark on something here

 

[Arianne Martell]

I need to re-read ASAP...