A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

yeahisaidit

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Has anyone read the theory that The Shavepate is the person that supplied the poisoned locusts?

The theory basically compares The Shavepate to Littlefinger, using the poison to start a war and improve his position. Selmy is in the role of Ned Stark, being manipulated by the Shavepate. Strong Belwas is in the role of Jon Arryn.

It's a nice theory to me.
 
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Has anyone read the theory that The Shavepate is the person that supplied the poisoned locusts?

The theory basically compares The Shavepate to Littlefinger, using the poison to start a war and improve his position. Selmy is in the role of Ned Stark, being manipulated by the Shavepate. Strong Belwas is in the role of Jon Arryn.

It's a nice theory to me.

Yeah I agree with the theory
 

MidniteJay

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Belwas was alive at the end of adwd

I know, both Selmy and Belwas are alive by the end of ADWD, I said that because I don't think they're gonna make it out the next book alive. Especially Selmy, if he survives the current situation I'm sure Victarion will use his new arm on him.
 

detroitwalt

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About the World of Ice and Fire
what the fukk happened to Egg at Summerhall??? They mention some type of tragedy and then move on to Aries. Do they reveal what happened???
:lupe:
 
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About the World of Ice and Fire
what the fukk happened to Egg at Summerhall??? They mention some type of tragedy and then move on to Aries. Do they reveal what happened???
:lupe:
Summerhall is a mystery still, all that is known is that a fire killed a lot of people

We know that Rhaegar was birthed at Summerhall during the tragedy
We know that Aegon and Dunk died there

The reason for the fire is unknown. Likely won't be revealed until the final Dunk & Egg book, along with an explanation of Dunk's heroics (saving Rhaegar maybe???)

There is a web of prophecy weaved into this involving Jenny of Oldstones and the woods witch and Rhaegar. I don't think it is necessarily critical to the main story, it is really meant to be more of a culmination of many Dunk & Egg tales that we will probably never get :(
 
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About the World of Ice and Fire
what the fukk happened to Egg at Summerhall??? They mention some type of tragedy and then move on to Aries. Do they reveal what happened???
:lupe:
Here is a theory I found online that I pretty much think is correct. Spoiler tagged for length

As some of you who've read my interpretations of prophecies before know, I hew to the idea that "dragons" in prophecy are not literal dragons, but refer to Targaryens.

We've seen visions unfold this way a couple of times in the Dunk and Egg stories:

1. In "The Hedge Knight," Daeron Targaryen (Egg's brother) has a vision of a large dead red dragon falling on top of Dunk, but he survives. The "red dragon" ends up being Baelor Breakspear, who took a blow to the head in a Trial of Seven.

2. In "The Mystery Knight," a fiddler (Daemon II Blackfyre) tells Dunk that he's seen a dragon hatching out of an egg at Whitewalls. This turns out to be Egg/Aegon V, who comes through a Blackfyre Rebellion with new fierceness and maturity.

In both of these cases, even though the dragons in the visions were actual dragons, when the prophecies unfold, the "dragons" are Targaryens.

Flash forward to Aegon V's reign. Jenny of Oldstones brings the Ghost of High Heart to court. We know that she was the one who told Aegon V that the Prince That Was Promised would come from Aerys and Rhaella's line. Not only does this set up the ASOIAF narrative, it sets a precedent for Aegon holding the woman's visions in high regard and listening to her.

We know that Aegon, Dunk, Duncan the Small and (I presume?) Jenny died in a fire at Summerhall and that the tragedy more than likely had something to do with hatching a dragon's egg. We're told that it was Aegon's decision to let his sons marry for love that culminated in the tragedy (I believe it's referred to as sorcery, fire and treason in varying combinations). I think this is a nod to Duncan the Small (the Prince of Dragonflies) falling in love with Jenny of Oldstones, which caused him to give up his crown for her (why would he have to? question for another time) and inadvertently led to the Ghost of High Heart's presence at court and her visions being taken seriously/literally. When Arya encounters her, the Ghost tells her that she's tasted grief at Summerhall, suggesting that at the very least, she was involved, and might even harbor some culpability.

So what happened? (Edited for clarity because apparently it's not that obvious that this is a theory) I hypothesize that The Ghost of High Heart told Aegon V that she saw a dragon hatching out of Summerhall, maybe even "out of a fire" at Summerhall. Like the earlier examples of dragons in prophecy, this vision would have shown its seer a literal dragon, but not actually referred to one. Having already listened to the Ghost's advice about Rhaella and Aerys' marriage, Aegon again took her at her word — her literal word — and attempted to hatch an actual dragon at Summerhall. It obviously failed, the keep burned to a ruin and a lot of people died.

That same day, Rhaegar was born to Rhaella and had a deep-seated melancholic connection to Summerhall for the rest of his life. Rhaegar was the dragon that hatched out of Summerhall.

Other than being a theory as to how and why the Summerhall tragedy occurred, what does this matter? I think it's threefold: It would be yet another instance of "dragons" in prophecy referring to a Targaryen and not a literal dragon (which I believe has implications for AA/PTWP), it broadly shows the danger of taking any prophecy at literal value, and it further illustrates that when it comes to literal dragons, the Targaryens are unstable and prone to nuttiness, even a saner one like Aegon.

I'm pretty sure that the Dunk and Egg stories will end with the Summerhall tragedy, so this should be either confirmed or debunked in good time. I think it's interesting that, within these novellas, we've already had multiple instances where "dragon" equals "Targaryen." Those instances could be a setup for the Summerhall narrative in this particular set of novellas, as well as a clue as to how to interpret dragon prophecies in the main ASOIAF storyline.
 
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Are the Dunk and Egg books actual novels or are they comics? I've finished off ASOIAF and have TWOIAF. I'm not really huge into comics.

They are short novels (70-80 pages or so).

There is no excuse not to read them. They are part of the story, and they are piff.

Download them, they aren't published as solo novellas yet other than the comic adaptations
 

Soundbwoy

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what evidence we have that rickon has not been turned to roasted meat in skaagos because from what I read so far they into cannibalism and they dont like starks over there:patrice:
 
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