A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[dem bath salts]

I can't wait for the fukkery Lord Manderly is about to cause up north.

Fat nikka had me thinking he's worthless in the earlier books But that nikkas loyalty to the starks run deep

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Doran Martell is the gawd. He's probably the smartest ruling Lord in the Seven Kingdoms.
Don't let the Gout fool ya

No that title goes to Littlefinger now, remember he is Lord of the Riverlands and unless Sansa does something he will be Lord of the Eyire/Warden of the East as well.

Doran is perceptive i'll give you that but he was a fool thinking that Dany would go for a lame like his son, not to mention that Arianne is much more his heir, even if she is a bit impulsive. But I will admit, if his plan with the Sand Snakes and all pans out he'll move up in my book but for now he's a lame.

 

[dem bath salts]

The thing that cracks me up is all the L's us #StarkSet brehs took these for 3 Seasons
But from this point on...
We've dropped the dead-weight
Its all prep and W's from here on out brehs


So all the show-watchers who rep #Stark and been loyal
They are about to eat the next few seasons
Bran getting his Professor X on


Even Sansa,
She learning from the best
Breezy was mad irritating early in the books
But she about to develop her politics game...
Hilary Clinton


Jon
Taking over the watch
and yes...
my nikka alive and well


Rickon
Got the fiercest Direwolf
Coming back to the north


And do I need to mention the Woman without a Face
Arya


And the swamp lady


We bout to eat good brehs

Its every other house turn for them L's

Not how you Stark, but how you finish
​

I'm Targset, but yeah dudes dont know the Starks about to strike back. I always laugh when people say all the starks are dead. lol nikkas is still all the kids minus rob running around outchea

 

[dem bath salts]

No that title goes to Littlefinger now, remember he is Lord of the Riverlands and unless Sansa does something he will be Lord of the Eyire/Warden of the East as well.

Doran is perceptive i'll give you that but he was a fool thinking that Dany would go for a lame like his son, not to mention that Arianne is much more his heir, even if she is a bit impulsive. But I will admit, if his plan with the Sand Snakes and all pans out he'll move up in my book but for now he's a lame.

Yeah, I'll give you littlefinger, forgot he's a ruling lord now.

but I wouldnt call doran a fool for his plan because he had to adapt on the fly. Visery was his original plan so he had to just throw quentin out there when that fell apart. As long as House Martell doesn't join Aegon they can't help but eat when all is said and done.

 

[yeahisaidit]

I was reading a theory last night that Jamie Lannister is actually Azor Ahai, and not Jon Snow. Had me like

I need to re-read everything...

 

[dem bath salts]

I was reading a theory last night that Jamie Lannister is actually Azor Ahai, and not Jon Snow. Had me like

I need to re-read everything...

Lightbringer held by Left Lannister

I know GRRM is a sadistic dude, but even he won't take it that far.

 

[yeahisaidit]

Lightbringer held by Left Lannister

I know GRRM is a sadistic dude, but even he won't take it that far.

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/jaime-azor-ahai-god-of-war.html

 

[detroitwalt]

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/jaime-azor-ahai-god-of-war.html

Which leads me to the issue of Jaime's parentage. The fact that he is Aerys' b*stard has been foreshadowed countless times throughout the series (yet, most everyone is thrown off of his trail because of Jon Snow). He and Cersei are the products of the rape of Joanna Lannister. Barristan Selmy claims Aerys was infatuated with Tywin's wife, which is the real reason why Tywin resigned as Hand of the King, and ended up sacking King's Landing. That's also the reason why Ilyn Payne had his tongue cut out -- because he witnessed the event (which is also why he laughs when Jaime admits his love for Cersei to him). And, yet again, that's why Aerys went behind Tywin's back to recruit Jaime into his Kingsguard, and refused to marry Rhaegar to Cersei.

 

[dem bath salts]

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/jaime-azor-ahai-god-of-war.html

I've read this theory before and I can believe the parts of jaime and cersi's parentage, but that doesnt mean he's azor ahai.

 

[MidniteJay]

I don't buy it but I wouldn't mind if it turned out that way. Him Azor Ahai and Jon Snow bodied for real... There will be riots.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

Not to mention, Payne had his tongue ripped out for saying Tywin was really the one who ran the kingdom. There's no mystery about that.

But Cersei and Jamie being Aerys b*stards IS something I could see happening. Kinda does support the "Tyrion is Tywin's child" thing.

 

[Adam3000]

We just talked about Cersei/Jamie Waters a few pages back. Someone listed a lot of the evidence. I'm convinced.

Not about Azor Azhai though

 

[Adam3000]

Yeah, I'll give you littlefinger, forgot he's a ruling lord now.

but I wouldnt call doran a fool for his plan because he had to adapt on the fly. Visery was his original plan so he had to just throw quentin out there when that fell apart. As long as House Martell doesn't join Aegon they can't help but eat when all is said and done.

Doran's sister gets murdered and he bends knee to the murderers

Doran sets up a multiple decade plan to marry his daughter to remaining a Targaryen. Something inevitable will go wrong over that timespan, and it did.

Doran sends Oberyn to King's Landing and he gets killed

Doran sends Quentyn the moron out and he becomes dragon food

Wins = 0, Losses = 4

How is he the smartest lord again? Ol' Black Adder Baldrick I've-Got-A-Cunning-Plan ass dude

 

[BonafideDefacto]

Since y'all are on the Subject of Azor Ahai...
at Westeros.Org everyone put together key points of the prophecy and related it to every character thus far
here is the updated list

​

The comet and the Battle for the Dawn are universal to the time period (unless someone has other theories). That leaves the following prophecies: 'born amidst smoke and salt', Azor Ahai's 'the red sword of heros' called lightbringer and the Prince that was Promised (Three Headed / Targaryan Prophecy).




Crackpottery welcome - this is supposed to be a complete list.


Daenerys Targaryen
- Salt - Tears; Birth on Dragonston
- Smoke - Funeral Pyre; Birth on Dragonstone
- Lightbringer - Dragons; Khal Drogo as Nissa Nissa

- Waking Dragoins out of stone - Done
- PtwP / Targ - Targaryen, comet seen near pyre



Aegon VI Targaryen

- Salt - Parents tears upon birth
- Smoke - Slaughter of the Targaryens or burning of people by them

- Lightbringer -

- PtwP / Targ - Targaryen, Comet seen on night of conception



Jon Snow
- Salt - Stabbed near Salted Pork; The Wall is made out of Saltwater; Bowen Marsh's tears
- Smoke - Smoking wounds; Sacrifice of Shireen
- Lightbringer - The Night's Watch; Longclaw; Melisandre as Nissa Nissa; Ygritte as Nissa Nissa
- PtwP / Targ - Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon

-- Cons: Ice not salt is used for preserving food at the wall



Stannis Baratheon

- Salt -
- Smoke - Conversion to the Red God

- Lightbringer - 'Lightbringer'

- PtwP / Targ - Minor Targaryen ancestry



Brandon Stark

- Salt - Invasion by the Ironborn (shortly after rewaking from coma)

- Smoke - Burning of Winterfell, burning of the boys; Re-emergence from crypts?

- Lightbringer - Wiernet; Jojen as Nissa Nissa; Hodor (warged) as Nissa Nissa; Meera as Nissa Nissa

- PtwP / Targ --



Sansa Stark

- Salt - Tears
- Smoke - Burning her clothing

- Lightbringer - Menstrual cramps

- PtwP / Targ -

- Red star - Onset of menses



Tyrion Lannister

- Salt - Stored in a barrel? Dumped in a river?
- Smoke -

- Lightbringer -

- PtwP / Targ - Secret Targaryen?



Brienne of Tarth
- Salt - Born on the Island of Tarth
- Smoke -
- Lightbringer - Oathkeeper (Ice)? Jaime Lannister as Nissa Nissa; Lady Stone Heart as Nissa Nissa
- PtwP / Targ -

Jaime Lannister
- Salt -
- Smoke -
- Lightbringer - Cersei as Nissa Nissa
- PtwP / Targ -



Sandor Clegane

- Salt - Diedish and lives on an island? Reborn amidst smoke and tears/salt at the Battle of Blackwater?
- Smoke - Diedish. Reborn amidst smoke and tears/salt at the Battle of Blackwater?

- Lightbringer - Sansa as Nissa Nissa

- PtwP / Targ -



Davos Seaworth

- Salt - Nearly Drowned

- Fire - Wildfire at the Battle of Blackwater
- Lightbringer - Will wake dragons out of stone?

- PtwP / Targ -



Victarion Greyjoy

- Salt - Baptised to the Drowned God
- Smoke - Worships the Red God
- Lightbringer -
- PtwP / Targ -



Theon Greyjoy
- Salt - Baptised to the Drowned God
- Smoke - Burning of Winterfell; Being sacrificed?
- Lightbringer - Asha or Jeyne as Nissa Nissa
- PtwP / Targ -


Euron Greyjoy

- Salt - Baptised to the Drowned God; Exiled
- Smoke - Visited the Doom / Smoking Sea
- Lightbringer -
- PtwP / Targ -



Ramsay Bolton

- Salt -
- Smoke -
- Lightbringer - Captured from Stannis
- Reborn - Legitimised (during the Red Comet)

- Prophetic visions - Melissandre might be seeing plain snow, Jon Snow or Ramsay Snow

- PtwP / Targ -

 

[Adam3000]

I think that people just spend too much time thinking that GRRM won't do the 'obvious'. He is writing a story, not a detective novel. He has placed his clues, some subtle and some a bit more obvious, and in the end Jon Snow will be Jon Targaryen and Azor Azai reborn.

Rhaegar Targaryen knew the dragon has 3 heads. Eliana couldn't birth another child. He married Lyanna and birthed Jon to fulfill the prophecy. There needn't be anything more to it than that. The evidence that points to it all is extensive and straightforward, while the evidence that points to any other outcome is sparse and requires some long reaching to make work.

Need to stress again that this is a story. A particularly well written story, but still just a story and thus inevitably follows some stereotypical narratives. People scour the text for anything that supports their claim and ignore the stuff that doesn't. Confirmation bias at work. They don't even ask themselves WHY. Like why would Jamie be Azor Azai and the prophecy already has been fulfilled? What was accomplished there? It is silly and all the evidence is a major reach.