A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[Adam3000]

Yea but the point is they'd have Targaryen genes. b*stard name in KL is Waters

Jon Snow has been Jon Targaryen to me for a while (I think Rhaegar and Lyanna married)

From now on, Jamie Lannister and Cersei Lannister shall be known as Jamie Waters and Cersei Waters

I don't care if GRRM never reveals it either. Unless he does the opposite and says flat out it isn't true, Jamie and Cersie have Targ blood. It makes too much sense to not be true. And I fully believe that GRRM puts all kinds of things like this in his books that he never intends to actually spell out but are heavily implied. "The devil is in the details".....there are plenty of people that accept Oberyn Martell poisoning Tywin Lannister as legit, and that will almost certainly never be revealed since both parties are already dead by other means.

 

[MidniteJay]

Jon Snow has been Jon Targaryen to me for a while (I think Rhaegar and Lyanna married)

From now on, Jamie Lannister and Cersei Lannister shall be known as Jamie Waters and Cersei Waters

I don't care if GRRM never reveals it either. Unless he does the opposite and says flat out it isn't true, Jamie and Cersie have Targ blood. It makes too much sense to not be true. And I fully believe that GRRM puts all kinds of things like this in his books that he never intends to actually spell out but are heavily implied. "The devil is in the details".....there are plenty of people that accept Oberyn Martell poisoning Tywin Lannister as legit, and that will almost certainly never be revealed since both parties are already dead by other means.

Too bad there isn't some magical type of DNA testing and a Westeros version of Maury. Anyone could be anybody's kid in that world

 

[duck]

It would make alot of sense if Jamie and Cersei were Targs.

• Jamie and Cersei being dirty incestuous lovers
• Jamie being nothing like Tywin/Tyrion being the only child like him
• Jamie Lannister and Rhaegar Targaryen having a big brother-little brother type relationship
• King Robert Baratheon hating Targaryens when his entire house was filled with them
• Joffrey being a young version of the Mad King
• Tyrion killed his father, Tywin. If Jamie was Aerys' kid, he killed his own father too

This nikka GRRM is an evil genius

damn ... ya'll making me want to re-read everything right now. my mind is blown. i feel like ace ventura when he discovered finkle is einhorn

 

[daze23]

^^^
yeah it said he left because he was passed over for hand of the king.

I'm going through book 3 again, and Tywin mentions that Stannis and Jon Arryn were "conspiring together at the time of his (Arryn's) death"

 

[beanz]

I'm going through book 3 again, and Tywin mentions that Stannis and Jon Arryn were "conspiring together at the time of his (Arryn's) death"

yea thats when stannis and jon arryn were going around looking for king robert's b*stards. remember gendry told ned the kings hand had visited him before and so had the whore with the baby.

i wonder what role mya stone will play. that's robert's first b*stard from the eerie, the girl getting cool with sansa. she will probably become sansa's best friend and confidant or someshyt.

 

[daze23]

yea thats when stannis and jon arryn were going around looking for king robert's b*stards. remember gendry told ned the kings hand had visited him before and so had the whore with the baby.

yeah, this was an old 'disagreement' that I was reminded of going through (audio)book 3 again. we already covered most of that^^^. it is interesting that Tywin knew about it though...

all of Robert's other b*stards play an interesting role, although I'm not sure how much the females really matter... except if the red bytch just wants their blood

changing the subject, but one thing I always think about is the significance and symbolism with the direwolf pups. there was obvious symbolism when they were found as the survivors after the stag and direwolf had basically killed eachother. and one for each Stark child (including Jon, who many are convinced isn't Ned's son). Rob died along with his wolf. Arya and her wolf were separated. the enigma is Sansa's wolf being killed, while she lives on. did that represent her 'death as a Stark'?

 

[beanz]

changing the subject, but one thing I always think about is the significance and symbolism with the direwolf pups. there was obvious symbolism when they were found as the survivors after the stag and direwolf had basically killed eachother. and one for each Stark child (including Jon, who many are convinced isn't Ned's son). Rob died along with his wolf. Arya and her wolf were separated. the enigma is Sansa's wolf being killed, while she lives on. did that represent her 'death as a Stark'?

i read somewhere, im not sure where, that bloodraven sent those pups to the starks and that bloodraven himself wargs into ghost(ghost being the only albino pup and having red eyes, much like bloodraven was an albino with red eyes). couple that with the fact that bloodraven himself was half targaryen and half blood of the first men (his mom was a bracken who is one of the few families below the neck that boasts having the blood of the first men and still worshipping the old gods). i think bloodraven knows that the starks and their bannermen are the strongest supporters of the old gods and the children of the forest and the first line of defense from the others so he sent them as protectors and guides. sansa's pup dying probably did represent her death as a stark and also how she was more of a tully than the rest of the kids. im not sure with her but i find the ghost=bloodraven theory the most interesting and likely of all.

 

[Mr. Pink]

changing the subject, but one thing I always think about is the significance and symbolism with the direwolf pups. there was obvious symbolism when they were found as the survivors after the stag and direwolf had basically killed eachother. and one for each Stark child (including Jon, who many are convinced isn't Ned's son). Rob died along with his wolf. Arya and her wolf were separated. the enigma is Sansa's wolf being killed, while she lives on. did that represent her 'death as a Stark'?

Yeah I like that theory as well. This is highly speculative since no one knows exactly wtf the Song of Ice and Fire is, but there are hints that the Starks seem to have a role or responsibility to fulfill in the world("there must always be a Stark in Winterfell"; Bran the Builder was a Stark), probably as a safety net against the Others.

So the direwolves represent basically "anchors" that are supposed to tie the Starks to their destinies. If the direwolves are there that means the Starks are on the right path.

- Jon and Bran are the only ones that are fulfilling their role, thus far. They have their direwolves with them. Coincidence?

- Sansa doesn't have Lady, so she became lost, and is now involved in the lesser power struggles of men, not in the war that matters, against the Others. Coincidence?

- Arya doesn't have Nymeria, and she also has been led astray to the guild of the FM man. But unlike Lady, Nymeria is still alive. So there is still hope for Arya that she may be brought back into the fold, as evidenced by her inability to let go of her previous life and become no one. There is still a Stark deep within her. Coincidence?

- Robb and Greywind were both involved in the lesser wars of men, and they were both killed at the same time and place. Maybe this is the cost of their "transgressions", of becoming involved in the wars of men instead of the war against the Others. Notice how Osha tried to tell him that he should be going North instead of South. He didn't, and paid the ultimate price.

Rickon still has his wolf, but we don't know what the fukk he's up to, so I won't speculate. But it seems to me that there's a definite pattern to the others.

 

[dem bath salts]

yeah, this was an old 'disagreement' that I was reminded of going through (audio)book 3 again. we already covered most of that^^^. it is interesting that Tywin knew about it though...

all of Robert's other b*stards play an interesting role, although I'm not sure how much the females really matter... except if the red bytch just wants their blood

changing the subject, but one thing I always think about is the significance and symbolism with the direwolf pups. there was obvious symbolism when they were found as the survivors after the stag and direwolf had basically killed eachother. and one for each Stark child (including Jon, who many are convinced isn't Ned's son). Rob died along with his wolf. Arya and her wolf were separated. the enigma is Sansa's wolf being killed, while she lives on. did that represent her 'death as a Stark'?

I think it symbolized her loss of power, of being a stark. She's the most helpless outta all the kids including bran and rickon.

On another note, I couldn't stand sansa in book one but sansa's potential has me like GRRM said everyone starts out a pawn and thats how I see her character progression. Shes about to soak up everything littlefinger is teaching her but gonna flip it on his ass in the end. unlike him, she has beauty to inspire young buls

 

[dem bath salts]

Yeah I like that theory as well. This is highly speculative since no one knows exactly wtf the Song of Ice and Fire is, but there are hints that the Starks seem to have a role or responsibility to fulfill in the world("there must always be a Stark in Winterfell"; Bran the Builder was a Stark), probably as a safety net against the Others.

So the direwolves represent basically "anchors" that are supposed to tie the Starks to their destinies. If the direwolves are there that means the Starks are on the right path.

- Jon and Bran are the only ones that are fulfilling their role, thus far. They have their direwolves with them. Coincidence?

- Sansa doesn't have Lady, so she became lost, and is now involved in the lesser power struggles of men, not in the war that matters, against the Others. Coincidence?

- Arya doesn't have Nymeria, and she also has been led astray to the guild of the FM man. But unlike Lady, Nymeria is still alive. So there is still hope for Arya that she may be brought back into the fold, as evidenced by her inability to let go of her previous life and become no one. There is still a Stark deep within her. Coincidence?

- Robb and Greywind were both involved in the lesser wars of men, and they were both killed at the same time and place. Maybe this is the cost of their "transgressions", of becoming involved in the wars of men instead of the war against the Others. Notice how Osha tried to tell him that he should be going North instead of South. He didn't, and paid the ultimate price.

Rickon still has his wolf, but we don't know what the fukk he's up to, so I won't speculate. But it seems to me that there's a definite pattern to the others.

Rickon's in Skagos, Lord Manderly sent Davos to go get him.

 

[daze23]

no one knows exactly wtf the Song of Ice and Fire is..

it seems it's tied to the whole "prince that was promised" thing

He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.

Aemon seemed to think it's Danny. "ice" and "fire" could be the White Walkers and Dragons...

 

[beanz]

how dope would it be to see the white walkers about to get to kings landing at the same time as dany and her dragons then have the dragons fly around cooking all the white walkers.

this nikka GRRM man

 

[daze23]

how dope would it be to see the white walkers about to get to kings landing at the same time as dany and her dragons then have the dragons fly around cooking all the white walkers.

this nikka GRRM man

he's pretty much set the stage for something like that to happen. the walkers are coming. that's been clear since the prologue in the first book

 

[beanz]

he's pretty much set the stage for something like that to happen. the walkers are coming. that's been clear since the prologue in the first book

yea i know but i mean to see it on HBO. he better hurry the fukk up and finish writing tho cause i want to read it first

 

[daze23]

yea i know but i mean to see it on HBO. he better hurry the fukk up and finish writing tho cause i want to read it first

goddamn all these cliffhangers he left us with. what do yall think is going to happen next with Dany and Khal Jhaqo