A King and an Empire: The Official GOAT franchise Boss Angeles Lakers 2018-19 season

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All of this is spot on. Kuzma's ideal worth is as a scoring stretch four starting on a bad-to-mediocre team. On the Lakers he doesn't make sense when all their best lineups already include Ingram, LeBron, and guards who like to handle the ball. Kuzma has some elite iso skills, and this team doesn't need a four with elite iso skills. But other teams will give away something nice to get a guy who averaged 16ppg in his first season with great iso skills, solid 3pt shooting, a good work ethic and a super-cheap rookie contract. Why not start looking for that while his value is still at its peak, rather than when it becomes devalued from only getting 15 minutes/night or looking bad in failed experiments at the 5 or trying to play with Rondo/Ingram/LeBron all on the court at the same time?

This is similar to when I was talking about the Clippers needing to move CP3 and Griffin during the 2016/17 season or the Cavs needing to flip IT at the very first chance they got. The longer you hold onto players who are better off somewhere else, the more you risk not getting full value for those players. Kuzma's problem isn't that he's a bad player, the problem is that it's easy to project that he isn't an ideal player for what the Lakers are doing, and if you can have any confidence in that determination then it pays off to act on your evaluation when his value is still high.

Bruh have you been watching the Warriors over the last few years or (if you were a Lakers fan) the last time the Lakers won the chip? Having a starting caliber 6th man is actaully a good thing, not to mention the intangibles he brings regarding locker room chemistry etc. Why the fukk would they trade that especially as you said he's 'super-cheap'?

Kuz can be frustating at times but if you actually watched Laker games last year (instead of hopping on to the wagon because of Bron), you would know that Kuz can be very clutch and make big plays in big moments. Let him grow and find his role and stop all this nonsense.
 

ALonelyDad

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Why is it stupid to move a guy on a great asset with a great contract if he's not the player your team needs? Everyone else in the league knows that he's a great asset with a great contract too, which means that you can get something GOOD for him. The arguments you're giving for keeping him are the EXACT reasons he's a good trade asset, because those attributes are valuable to every team.

You're stuck in the fallacy that you should only move bad assets. You don't move bad players, you move players who will get you more than they're worth to you.




But those aren't assets. Why would the Lakers get something good for a non-asset? You're looking at this wrong.

And the Lakers shouldn't get any rebounder unless he can either protect the rim or hit threes too.




Does anyone actually know why the Lakers didn't keep Lopez? That move kinda confused me.
Who is a good player that is available right now? Do you know the Lakers contract situation? Lakers can't even trade for Butler because to match the contracts they would have to trade Lonzo, Ingram, and Hart as well. You hold on to a good asset so you can make the right move when needed.

Lakers do need Kuzma's scoring off the bench. There might be times when Ingram gets injured or Lebron sits out. You want Lakers to trust Lance Stephenson? lol. Kuzma is a guy who can give 15 ppg in his sleep and that is valuable to any team. You want Lakers to trade Kuzma, a great contract, young player who was first team all rookie because he doesn't fit a team that is only built for 1 year. Half these guys might even not be here after February. If Lillard becomes available later on, Lakers can use Kuzma in that trade or AD or so on. A GM's job is to be patient and not trade a guy because he didn't look great in the first 3 preseason games. Guys like Lance, KCP, Rondo will go way before Kuzma does because Kuzma gives 15 ppg on a 2 mil contract.


KCP/Beasley/Lance are not assets, you are right..but they are all on 1 year deals. No one is asking for a superstar for them but a team like the Suns could do a swap for a guy like Chandler because they want do Chandler a favor. Orlando Magic have way too many bigs, they would love to have a guy like KCP on that team because he would benefit them more than Vuc would at this point.


And you are looking for way too much from a backup. Lakers just need a hustle big who tries to defense and rebound.


I think Brook was mad with the Lakers because he didn't get much mins last year and he was the scapegoat by the fanbase after KCP
 

Professor Emeritus

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Bruh have you been watching the Warriors over the last few years or (if you were a Lakers fan) the last time the Lakers won the chip? Having a starting caliber 6th man is actaully a good thing, not to mention the intangibles he brings regarding locker room chemistry etc. Why the fukk would they trade that especially as you said he's 'super-cheap'?

Kuz can be frustating at times but if you actually watched Laker games last year (instead of hopping on to the wagon because of Bron), you would know that Kuz can be very clutch and make big plays in big moments. Let him grow and find his role and stop all this nonsense.
Having a starting-caliber 6th man is great if you already have a competitive starting lineup and your 6th man can slide right into it.

Who do the Lakers have right now who could compete for starter minutes on a championship team next year? LeBron, Ingram, and "maybe" Lonzo or playoff Rondo. You can get a max guy in free agency next year, either a big or a 3-and-D. Then you need to trade for one more. Who are you going to use for trade bait if not Kuzma?

Ya'all keep talking like I'm trashing Kuzma when I'm actually calling him the best trade asset the Lakers have. He's just not a fantastic fit for this team's future because he shouldn't be getting the kind of iso possessions he likes on a team with LeBron, Ingram, and Lonzo/Rondo.



Who is a good player that is available right now?
It wouldn't be "right now" necessarily because some of the guys don't clear for trading purposes until December. But it's definitely plausible that Anthony Davis, Gasol, Conley, Lowry, Lilliard, Kemba, McCollum, Whiteside, Beal, Butler, Valanciunas, and/or Vucevic will be on the trading block.



Do you know the Lakers contract situation? Lakers can't even trade for Butler because to match the contracts they would have to trade Lonzo, Ingram, and Hart as well.
That's a ridiculous claim, it's highly plausible that the very reason the Lakers handed out the 1-year salaries they did to KCP, Rondo, Lance, and Beasley was so they could have expiring contracts to play with for trade purposes. That's $29 million in matching salary right there in addition to the $9 million they have in Lonzo/Kuzma, that's plenty of salary to make a deal.



Lakers do need Kuzma's scoring off the bench. There might be times when Ingram gets injured or Lebron sits out. You want Lakers to trust Lance Stephenson? lol.
Why you talking shyt about Lance, he's someone who has proven himself repeatedly in a playoff atmosphere. He's just fine for scoring off the bench, especially on a team that past LeBron and Ingram also has Lance, Hart, KCP, and Beasley. Even if you traded Kuzma you'd still have six wings who could score and that's not even counting whoever you got back in the trade. Wing scoring is not the Lakers' primary need.



Kuzma is a guy who can give 15 ppg in his sleep and that is valuable to any team. You want Lakers to trade Kuzma, a great contract, young player who was first team all rookie because he doesn't fit a team that is only built for 1 year. Half these guys might even not be here after February. If Lillard becomes available later on, Lakers can use Kuzma in that trade or AD or so on.
Why are you talking like I said they should rush a trade? I said they should dangle him. You still wait until you get the best trade possible.



A GM's job is to be patient and not trade a guy because he didn't look great in the first 3 preseason games. Guys like Lance, KCP, Rondo will go way before Kuzma does because Kuzma gives 15 ppg on a 2 mil contract.
Again, you're assuming this is about preseason. It's about fit.



KCP/Beasley/Lance are not assets, you are right..but they are all on 1 year deals. No one is asking for a superstar for them but a team like the Suns could do a swap for a guy like Chandler because they want do Chandler a favor. Orlando Magic have way too many bigs, they would love to have a guy like KCP on that team because he would benefit them more than Vuc would at this point.
Tyson Chandler just turned 36, I don't see the point. Vucevic is an option in a worse-case scenario. I think that they would rather chase Gasol, Valanciunas, Whiteside, Jordan, or even John Henson.



And you are looking for way too much from a backup. Lakers just need a hustle big who tries to defense and rebound.
Lakers still need a STARTING big. McGee is already a hustle big who tries to defend and rebound.
 

ALonelyDad

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1. It wouldn't be "right now" necessarily because some of the guys don't clear for trading purposes until December. But it's definitely plausible that Anthony Davis, Gasol, Conley, Lowry, Lilliard, Kemba, McCollum, Whiteside, Beal, Butler, Valanciunas, and/or Vucevic will be on the trading block.




2. That's a ridiculous claim, it's highly plausible that the very reason the Lakers handed out the 1-year salaries they did to KCP, Rondo, Lance, and Beasley was so they could have expiring contracts to play with for trade purposes. That's $29 million in matching salary right there in addition to the $9 million they have in Lonzo/Kuzma, that's plenty of salary to make a deal.




3. Why you talking shyt about Lance, he's someone who has proven himself repeatedly in a playoff atmosphere. He's just fine for scoring off the bench, especially on a team that past LeBron and Ingram also has Lance, Hart, KCP, and Beasley. Even if you traded Kuzma you'd still have six wings who could score and that's not even counting whoever you got back in the trade. Wing scoring is not the Lakers' primary need.




4. Why are you talking like I said they should rush a trade? I said they should dangle him. You still wait until you get the best trade possible.




5. Again, you're assuming this is about preseason. It's about fit.




6. Tyson Chandler just turned 36, I don't see the point. Vucevic is an option in a worse-case scenario. I think that they would rather chase Gasol, Valanciunas, Whiteside, Jordan, or even John Henson.




7. Lakers still need a STARTING big. McGee is already a hustle big who tries to defend and rebound.

1. If it is not right now then what is the point in trading Kuzma right now? And no it is not plausible, none of those guys except Butler (who will be traded to another team very soon) are on the market. Kemba is the only guy I can see being moved from that list if Hornets hesitate to pay him the big contract. Whiteside is an inconsistent player on a bad contract, there is a reason Heat are trying to get rid of him.

2. You didn't get this point, Lakers can not trade for Butler right now. They can do it December 15th, I highly doubt Butler lasts till December 15.

3. Not one GM in this league is taking Lance over Kuzma. Lance is good for spot mins before he does stupid shyt. I enjoy Lance on the team, but the reality is reality..if he was that great of a player, he would not be on his 6th team in 3 years. The last time Lance averaged over 10 ppg was in 2014. If I need a guy for scoring off the bench I am taking Kuzma over Lance 10/10 times.

4. So we are on the same page? Not rushing is waiting for best trade possible.

5. This is a 1 year team, half the guys wont be here next year so why would you trade a guy away who was a great fit last year? What if Luke adjusts his role or Lakers get rid of some guys on the bench and Kuzma gets to do what he did last year. Right now he is being forced to play 5, which he doesn't know how to. If Lakers don't have a place for him other than playing at 5 then sure he will never fit.

6. We just need a big body, anyone is an upgrade over Kuzma at 5 or Zubac. Vuc is not a good defensive guy but he's on a 1 year deal and can at least give offense. Gasol/Valancuinas/Jordan/Henson are not on the block. Whiteside has been on the block for months now and no one wants him because he isn't worth the money he is getting.

7. They do but I am being realistic for this season, if mcGee is going to start they need a backup big who can potentially be on the trading block and come here.
 

Professor Emeritus

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1. If it is not right now then what is the point in trading Kuzma right now? And no it is not plausible, none of those guys except Butler (who will be traded to another team very soon) are on the market.

2. You didn't get this point, Lakers can not trade for Butler right now. They can do it December 15th, I highly doubt Butler lasts till December 15.

4. So we are on the same page? Not rushing is waiting for best trade possible.

5. This is a 1 year team, half the guys wont be here next year so why would you trade a guy away who was a great fit last year? What if Luke adjusts his role or Lakers get rid of some guys on the bench and Kuzma gets to do what he did last year. Right now he is being forced to play 5, which he doesn't know how to. If Lakers don't have a place for him other than playing at 5 then sure he will never fit.
I think we're on the same page - you must have misread me. I didn't say that Lakers needed to rush a trade, I said that right now he looks tradeable and they should be dangling him.

Your point about Butler is a good reason why. If Minny is looking to trade Butler now and the Lakers stay quiet, they could be left out. But if the Lakers dangle Kuzma to them and say, "If you wait until Dec. 15 then we'll offer you Kuzma, Ball, KCP and picks for Butler, Patton, and Jones", then you might convince Minny to wait. It's better than being left out.

And there's been talk at some point going on around all the other guys I mentioned.



Kemba is the only guy I can see being moved from that list if Hornets hesitate to pay him the big contract. Whiteside is an inconsistent player on a bad contract, there is a reason Heat are trying to get rid of him.
Why? The AD talk has been there, the Grizzlies and Blazers both have been speaking of possibly blowing things up, and there's been plenty of talk of Beal of Valanciunas getting put on the trading block. I only heard the Lowry talk recently, don't know if there's anything serious to that or not.



3. Not one GM in this league is taking Lance over Kuzma. Lance is good for spot mins before he does stupid shyt. I enjoy Lance on the team, but the reality is reality..if he was that great of a player, he would not be on his 6th team in 3 years. The last time Lance averaged over 10 ppg was in 2014. If I need a guy for scoring off the bench I am taking Kuzma over Lance 10/10 times.
No one said they're taking "Lance over Kuzma". That's like saying the Cavs chose Waiters over Wiggins, or the Thunder chose Roberson over Oladipo. The point is that Kuzma, not Lance, gets you the asset you need, and Lance is adequate to fill the hole on the bench left behind. If he doesn't do a good job you're waving him after this year anyway.

Lance, Hart, Beasley are all providing scoring off the bench in ADDITION to Kuzma. So scoring off the bench isn't this team's primary need.



6. We just need a big body, anyone is an upgrade over Kuzma at 5 or Zubac. Vuc is not a good defensive guy but he's on a 1 year deal and can at least give offense. Gasol/Valancuinas/Jordan/Henson are not on the block. Whiteside has been on the block for months now and no one wants him because he isn't worth the money he is getting.
There's been plenty of trade talk about Valanciunas.
Henson trade talk has been going around for two years now.
There are obvious reasons to put Marc Gasol on the trading block.
 

O.T.I.S.

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Bro, I'm serious. Rondo gets a lot of assists but dude seriously ismnot doing a lot but yelling and basically handing the ball off.


I'm more concerned with his defense. I like him on the floor when there is no real PG though, but I can't see how his game will mesh with Lebron. He doesn't move without the basketball, he doesn't really do anything unless he has the ball.
 
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