A King and an Empire: The Official GOAT franchise Boss Angeles Lakers 2018-19 season

DGodRussell

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I'm pretty sure the Clippers would take that deal. Beverly is who he is. Lonzo can still improve as a scorer just due to the fact he's only 21. We've seen Lonzo be a good scorer on this team just this fukking season. I don't know why you wanna give up on him so easily just because he has hit a bad stretch. You Lebron stans have to realize that we're not gonna mortgage the future for one or two years of what's left of Lebron's current production. fukk that.
Smh we haven't seen Lonzo be a good scorer on this team. We've seen that nikka score 14 pts shooting 40% on wide ass open 3s for a few games. Smush Parker had a few games where he managed to hit some of the wide open looks Kobe gave him too. Does that make Smush Parker a good scorer? Good scorers don't look like this in their second season
 

10bandz

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Smh we haven't seen Lonzo be a good scorer on this team. We've seen that nikka score 14 pts shooting 40% on wide ass open 3s for a few games. Smush Parker had a few games where he managed to hit some of the wide open looks Kobe gave him too. Does that make Smush Parker a good scorer? Good scorers don't look like this in their second season



Zo played great when Rondo was hurt and he's had to adjust the most out of all the young guys. He needs to play better but shouldn't give up on him so early. His defense is still important
 

Professor Emeritus

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@Rhakim Kemba is underpaid right now and only has an $18M 2019 cap hold (without assuming any trade kickers or something like that). That’s actually pretty low for a player of his caliber. Depending on who else is included in that trade that could cut roughly $10M in to next summer’s salary cap space (down to about $28M in expirings) which would eliminate KD but every other free agent should still be in play pending minor moves. Kemba would be able to be resigned after that because of bird rights and then we would be over the cap. And if KD decides to come back they can renounce Kemba and figure out what to do next. This is all hypotheticals with rough math but the point is that Kemba’s low salary and cap hold keep possibilities open.

$28 million ain't enough for Kawhi - he's in his 8th year. He's getting the max that starts at $33 million. So are Butler and Klay. So they're all out if you take Kemba, unless they want to eat a $20 million salary cut to play for the Lakers.

And to get that $28 million, you're cutting Rondo, Lance, and JaVale, right? So you rolling with no 5 and thin as hell on the bench?

And that ALL relies on Charlotte willing to trade Kemba for Ball and bad picks, which no one really believes can happen.

Which at least is better than keeping Ball. :francis:

So again, who are you getting besides Beverly who only costs $5 million AND fills a starting spot on a squad AND opens up cap space?
 

DGodRussell

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Zo played great when Rondo was hurt and he's had to adjust the most out of all the young guys. He needs to play better but shouldn't give up on him so early. His defense is still important
I'd still have faith in Lonzo if he could at the very least hit wide open layups consistently... hell, even I can do that. Bruh is straight up trash man. You really want to waste these last 2 years of Bron being a top 10 player on developing homeless man's Andre Roberson? I'd cut ties with him while he still has some semblance of value, but honestly, it's probably already too late. Jerry West would probably demand 2 1st rd picks in any trade involving Lonzo for Patrick Beverly. We're stuck with Lonzo for the forseeable future, so you're right in a way, no point in giving up on him now :francis:
 

2Quik4UHoes

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Any trade that threatens our max money next summer ain’t gonna happen. Magic wants to win but he also wants to hit them offseason craps tables in July. If we can finesse Kawhi without having given up any of our young assets that puts us at a tremendous advantage to make a play for AD or stand pat if the kids pan out.

Bear in mind, this Super Warriors team will only be together for a year so the Lakers can find themselves in better position next season. Gotta stick to the mission, let LeBron get to know this team over the season and next year with another max player we see the Warriors.
 

Dwight Howard

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I thought he was just an acquisition of necessity, been blown away by how much he's helped the team. Another huge win for LeGM, likely one that no one could have pulled off....and also a WAY better candidate for tampering charges than anything he's done before. Knuckleheads who didn't understand what tampering meant and get complaining about The Decision should actually be complaining now.

Can't imagine that McGee/Chandler is the 5 of the future for the Lakers though...what do they do going forward? Do they try to make at least one year's championship run next year with McGee/Chandler? Unless AD is the big offseason acquisition, I don't see how they add a max free agent AND get a big man.




Hasn't been low-key at all, he's really been trying on that end. With his physical attributes you would think that the effect should turn him into a problem on that end soon enough.




His shyt ain't good at the basket either, and after a reasonable start his three has fallen way the hell off too. His skill set doesn't fit in particularly well with everyone else. He's the biggest 2019-20 salary the Lakers have to get rid of if they want to make a trade. And you know that Lavar won't stay distracted by LaMelo's struggles forever and is gonna start interfering again. I don't see how you ain't shopping his ass all over the league.

Of course Laker fans will scream and cry, but a crazy option that could improve their championship chances? Ball for Beverly and a 1st-round pick.

Beverly is still coming off injury, but he's young enough that he should get his game back, and when he does he's one of the best three-and-D point guards in the league. He is experienced in the playoffs and showed he can thrive in that atmosphere, while you expect that Ball has a steep learning curve there when he still looks shook in regular season games. And he's the kind of guy you love to have to aggravate the other team and throw them off their game. I fully believe he could be a 30+ minute-a-game starter for a championship team so long as he's only the 4th or 5th scoring option.

And on top of all that is the salary issue. Beverly makes a couple million less than Lonzo, which means that his cap hold is less for next year. That gives you move flexibility to take some salary back if you're making a trade (and you'll have more assets to do that with if you can get a pick off the Clippers too), or more room to sign guys in next year's offseason. And on top of that Beverly's contract is expiring, so if he doesn't work out this year, you can just drop him at the end of the year and have that much more cap space to sign someone that WILL contribute to a champion. You don't have that option with Lonzo.

Better three, better defense, better experience, fits in better with this particular team, for less money, could get you a pick too, and the flexibility not to resign if you want even more cap space.

Beverly
Kawhi
Ingram
LeBron
JaVale

Hart/Lance/Kuzma/Moe/Chandler

I don't see how that's not a contender. If you can't get Kawhi or AD (and assuming KD/Klay aren't real options), then you overpay Khris Middleton, or go with Eric Bledsoe or Tyreke Evans or Kemba AND a big as your backup option.




What would be much better was if they actual guys out there could just hit their shots.

If I were LeBron, I'm scanning the entire nation for the best shooting coach in the business, then paying him whatever he wants to join the Lakers coaching staff and giving him half of every practice.

There's no good reason that Ingram and Kuzma shouldn't be able to hit threes at a 38-40% clip. LeBron is rounding back into form, if you could just get Kuz/Ingram/Hart/Lance to hit close to a 40% clip, you don't need no three-point specialist. Especially if the one more star you pick up has a three as part of his arsenal.



All this assumes, of course, that Magic gets his act together and hires Messina to coach this team.

He's been incredibly successful as a head coach AND as an NBA assistant coach
He's been disciplining under Pop, the GOAT of them all
He's had years to learn how to coach NBA stars and has practice head-coaching several Spurs games the last couple years
He has a pre-existing relationship with the Lakers
The Raptors nearly gave him their head coaching job this year
No one believes he would ever be as stupid about rosters as Luke has been

Get that man Magic. :salute:
You bron stans should really create your own thread. "2018-2019 lebron james official season thread" yall fukkin up the vibe
 

threattonature

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Kemba would do no good on this team. He's a beast but he's a ball dominant pick and roll guard. With Lebron that's not what you need since he wouldn't be controlling the ball as much as he is with the Hornets. If Lonzo can just be a decent three point shooter and improve his finishing he's exactly what you want in a point guard playing next to Lebron. He can create shots for others without needing to dominate the ball to do so, he plays damn good defense. Lebron needs playmakers around him so that when teams focus in on him they can still create offense based off the attention he draws. The dudes are in their second and their years so inconsistency is expected. Plus it's early in the season. Some of y'all are just too damn impatient and expect everything to be perfect out the gate. These bumps and bruises are expected.
 

Reid2Achieve

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Kemba would do no good on this team. He's a beast but he's a ball dominant pick and roll guard. With Lebron that's not what you need since he wouldn't be controlling the ball as much as he is with the Hornets. If Lonzo can just be a decent three point shooter and improve his finishing he's exactly what you want in a point guard playing next to Lebron. He can create shots for others without needing to dominate the ball to do so, he plays damn good defense. Lebron needs playmakers around him so that when teams focus in on him they can still create offense based off the attention he draws. The dudes are in their second and their years so inconsistency is expected. Plus it's early in the season. Some of y'all are just too damn impatient and expect everything to be perfect out the gate. These bumps and bruises are expected.
I agree with you and I would love it if we stand pat with the young core, but I would be shocked if Magic has patience with all of these young guys if they continue to be inconsistent. If it’s still looking like Lonzo is 1-2 years away then he might not fit Lebron’s timeline.
 

ISO

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As I predicted:


:sas1::sas2:






Lakers' fans view of Ball's value >>>>> Lakers' organization's view of Ball's value >>>>> rest of the NBA's view of Ball's value >>>>> Ball's actual value the next three years



Ya'all ain't answering the question:

You have a point guard who can't shoot, and can't score at the rim either. He still looks tentative and spooked in key moments in meaningless regular season games. And he has neither the form nor the athleticism to guarantee you that any of that is changing.

Question #1: What is the FIRST year you'd bet on Lonzo looking like a championship team starter-caliber point guard?

Question #2: Who is the BEST point guard in the NBA who is available right now as cheap as Beverley?

Question #3: How are you addressing your issues at the 1, 2, and 5 when you only have enough cap space for one more max player?

Love to see anyone answer those three questions with a player that fills a gap AND opens up cap space as well as Beverley AND is available.
Extremely short sighted move and Beverley has had several surgeries and looks utterly washed this season offensively shooting 35% from he field and 31% from 3 while also maintaining a career low steals rate. He's also 30, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander will soon take his spot.

Ball is coming back from a meniscus tear and has had an up and down season platooning him with Rondo instead of giving him the keys is part of the problem, it's too early to give up on him he's improved since last season, he's the best defender on the team and when his three is falling he's the best option at point on the roster hands down.
 

ISO

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What was the bad stretch he hit? His entire NBA career has been a bad stretch. :skip:

I'm not "giving up on him". That would require me to have thought something of him in the first place. There are receipts on here of me saying the moment I saw his shooting form that he would NOT excel at the NBA level. He was a horrific pick at the #2 slot. The fact that he can't finish at all doubles down on that. How da hell you gonna give away potential title seasons betting on a mediocre athlete of a point guard who can neither shoot nor finish? His passing isn't even GOAT-level, it's maybe slightly above average at best.

The idea that trading Lonzo (and getting a draft pick in the process) would be mortgaging the future. Ya'all realize that you just dropped Randle for nothing, right? That's what happens when you start to play games with the salary cap that you don't have space to play. :beli:
He averaged 10/7/7 with damn near 2 steals and a block. He was one of the best guard defenders in basketball last season, the %'s aren't pretty but you're talking about a frail 19 year old rookie point guard. He has worked on his body and has come back far stronger this season, you don't give up on Ball 10 games into his sophomore season. Like I said it's been an up and down year but when he's on he's exactly the point this team needs.

I've seen Zo hit deep step back threes in the clutch against Denver, catch alley-oops, straight up mug and strip Jamal Murray playing full court pressure defense, straight up get the cookies on Derrick Rose in the half court in isolation. Stop it, Zo shows flashes of his potential all the time he just needs to get more consistent.
 

Professor Emeritus

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Beverley has had several surgeries
Ball is coming back from a meniscus tear

That is what we call talking out of both sides of your mouth, you counted Beverley's recovery against him while treating Ball's recovery as an excuse for his poor play. :mjlol:

And you ripped Beverley for having a twelve-game 3pt average (coming off of surgery) that's the same as Lonzo's CAREER average. :francis:

Not to mention that Ball has gotten worse the further from his injury recovery we've gotten. In the Spurs/Rockets games he hit a few fluke threes that boosted his %'s to abnormal heights, now he's 30% from three for the season outside those two games. :childplease:




when his three is falling he's the best option at point on the roster hands down.
Saying that a 31% career three-point shooter is the best option when his three is falling is like saying that Westbrook is the best PG in the league when he's making the right play. :youngsabo:

And Ball's 3pt% number is inflated by those games where the other team doesn't even guard him. That ain't gonna happen in the playoffs when teams are playing tight. In fact, shoddy-ass form like Lonzo's is the EXACT kind of shot that always falls apart in the playoffs. That long-ass release, that he keeps changing, that comes from the wrong place on his body, that he can only hit with a defender when he's going in one direction....you see that shot surviving playoff pressure?



And let's see who the best option at point is. :myman:


In the 9 games so far this season where they've both been on the court, Rondo is +38 and Lonzo is -63.

Let me say that again.

Rondo +38
Lonzo -63

And it's not like we're comparing Lonzo to some all-star PG or something, right? :sas1::sas2:

Even in the three games Lonzo missed, the Lakers were +7 in 94 minutes with Lonzo on the court but +14 in just 50 minutes with Lonzo off the court.

Even when Rondo isn't available the Lakers are playing better with Lonzo off than Lonzo on. :martin:

There's been 12 games this year, and the only games that LA has played better with Lonzo on were Denver, Dallas, and Toronto.


And this isn't all about 12 games. This is about a player who over his time in the league (and predictably from what he had shown before the league):

* can't hit threes under any defensive pressure due to his terrible form
* can't finish at the rim at all due to his terrible athleticism
* has NO GAME AT ALL between the rim and the three, just looks terrible between
* flirts with the worst FT average of any point guard in history....not that he ever gets there

And none of those issues have any reason to show that they'll get better. His form and his athleticism don't give us any promise of improvement on any of those fronts.

His passing and defense are both slightly above average at best, they're not as good as you're making them out to be. They don't make up for his turrible offense. At all.
 
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