A comprehensive guide to the origin/roots of HipHop's elements (all verified facts w/ OG interviews)

[K.O.N.Y]

Please do. Because I foresee this becoming uncivil if you don't. Dudes looking to snipe you, you already know you gotta have everything crossed and dotted. Or dudes with go after you.

yeah I agree. But you would have to believe this was all constructed in photoshop or something. Which is laughable

 

[IllmaticDelta]

yeah I agree. But you would have to believe this was all constructed in photoshop or something. Which is laughable

 

[Neuromancer]

yeah I agree. But you would have to believe this was all constructed in photoshop or something. Which is laughable

You have people on here who have lied about their entire lineage to prove a point and then admitted it later. So they probably think anyone would go to such lengths to prove a point. Some coli members are insane.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

@IllmaticDelta

lets get into the common ancestor of the "modern mc" Who was melle mel ...................................or maybe not

Also what almost never gets talked about... Is when exactly did hip hop find its distinctive sound

I mean separate from funk and disco and distinctively hip hop

 

[chiefdogg]

In.

I'm mad late but yeah.

 

[Asicz]

If yall want that info, I'll post it too

I would like to have information about the sources.
Possibly so we can do further reading on what can provided on a post.

Also I would like to see further work by the author.

Could you provide citations or document the sources in this thread?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta

lets get into the common ancestor of the "modern mc" Who was melle mel ...................................or maybe not

Also what almost never gets talked about... Is when exactly did hip hop find its distinctive sound

Dj Hollywood is the root of the "modern mc" in contrast to the "not quite right syncopation" of early MC'ing from the likes of KC The Prince Of Soul. Hollywood was the first one totally on beat, dropping verses all while being/doing this with 2 turntables and a mic. This style, the first rapping style is called "Disco Rap" and could be heard in the likes of Sugar Hill Gang, Doug E Fresh, Keith Cowboy, Busy Bee and Luv Bug Starski.


The 2 people responsible for taking that style and eschewing some of that "radio announcer" delivery was Melle Mel and Caz. Melle Mel was the more prolific one of the two so he's the more revered MC in the context of the post-Disco rap style.










On Melle Mel:

Spoiler

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On Caz:

I mean separate from funk and disco and distinctively hip hop

What came to be known as HipHop didn't really separate from Funk/Disco as a new genre until scratching and then drum machines/samplers came in.

 

[SupaDupaFresh]

Jesus christ....

So we really stickying all this anecdotal rambling from people too insecure to just accept Hip Hop was created by a Jamaican-born DJ in the Bronx for American audiences? This is what TLR calls sticky-worthy "comprehensive" history.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Jesus christ....

So we really stickying all this anecdotal rambling from people too insecure to just accept Hip Hop was created by a Jamaican-born DJ in the Bronx for American audiences? This is what TLR calls sticky-worthy "comprehensive" history.

No "anecdotal ramblings" when the sources are from the OG's who were actually there in the 1970s when the culture was born. You can only blame yourself for taking those hiphop false origin stories from the mid-1980s as fact because people purposely went out of their way to not mention certain pioneers so they could hog all the glory and maintain a certain narrative. How much more facts do you need from the OG's to realize we've been getting fed BS?

Flash himself said no one at Herc's parties was rapping; they just did freelance talking (Coke La Roc)

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Grandmaster Caz flat out said Dj Hollwood laid the blueprint for rapping

Caz:

"Dj Hollywood was the blueprint for the syncopated (rapping) style"

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@The Velvet Soul


"Dj Smokey and Disco King Mario predate Herc" - Grandmixer DXT



@4:50

he breaks it down even further on how the repeated hiphop origin story is perpetuated by pioneers who want all the shine for themselves so they purposely never bring up these heads that predate them. For those who don't know about Smokey, he was from the West Bronx like Herc:

here goes an OG bboy who was part of herc's team who said he was bboying way before he heard of herc and was down with dj dmoke first!

Clark Kent:

NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the legendary (N***er) Twins?"

CLARK KENT:"Well, we met when we were 8 years old and we did everything together in the beginning of hiphop. If you saw me, you saw the Twins...if you saw the Twins, you saw me..our names were cemented together, okay?! There's nothing that they were involved in that I wasn't there for and there is nothing that I was involved in that they wasn't there for. We were like triplets. Wherever you seen one you seen all three of us when it came to movin' around in Hiphop. We used to travel down to Chuck Center which is one of the places we really honed our skills at before finding out about Kool Herc and going to Kool Herc's parties. We would go to Chuck Center like every other week 'cause they had a dance contest and we used to love winning that dance contest."

NORIN RAD:"That's some precious knowledge!!! Chuck Center was located in East Harlem, right?"

CLARK KENT: "Yes on 115th Street & 2nd Avenue."

NORIN RAD: "So you were basically breaking at Chuck Center BEFORE you met Kool Herc?"

CLARK KENT:"Before I even met Kool Herc! That's where The (N***er) Twins and I honed our skills and we would go down there with cats like Wallace Dee and Chip. These are guys from the era of like Trixie and them. We ran with a whole host of cats down there before we found out what Herc was doing what he was doing on the Westside (of the Bronx).One of the names I wanna mention though is Dancing Doug!!!Back then Chuck Center was one of the places where we encountered Dancing Doug! The premier place to do breaking became Kool Herc's parties but prior to Kool Herc's we used to go to (DJ) Smokey's parties, you know, the Twins and I. From Smokey's we caught on to Chuck Center and then from Chuck Center we caught on to what Herc was doing. And out of all the places we went, you know, we honed our skills! A lot of people have this misconception that we got our skills at Kool Herc's...by the time the Twins and I arrived at Kool Herc's we was already elite!!!! And that's why we quickly ran through whoever thought they was somebody at Kool Herc's at that time.

Castles In The Sky


Green Eyed Gene is from Bronxdale and his thoughts on Smokey/Herc

 

[IllmaticDelta]

“Herc had the recognition, he was the big name in the Bronx back then”, explains AJ. “Back then the guys with the big names were: Kool D, Disco King Mario, Smokey and the Smoke-a-trons, Pete DJ Jones, Grandmaster Flowers and Kool Herc. Not even Bambaataa had a big name at that time, you know what I’m sayin?”

Ill-literature with Skillz to Blaze: One Night At the Executive Playhouse

^^the ones I bolded in blue are all way before Herc (1968-1972). Dj Smoke is slightly before (1972)/from the same time and area as Herc (1973). More on him and his dance crew

Even dudes that later went to Herc's parties/were part of his crew have basically verified this.


Almighty KG from Cold Crush



recent interview (he's from herc's area)

NORIN RAD:"Most people probably know you for your great contributions to the Hiphop element of MCing as a legendary member of the Cold Crush Four MCees but as you told me you were once also a B-Boy. So when and where did you witness Breaking for the very first time?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"Well, I first witnessed Breaking in about 1971 at a DJ Smokey & The Master Plan Bunch party on Grant Avenue. I saw this guy named Crip and the original Mr. Freeze breakdancing and that's kinda like when I caught the bug right there....breakdancing. "





NORIN RAD:"Most people today have a certain image of what Breaking looks like in their mind but could you elaborate please on how the dance looked like when you first saw it?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"When I first saw it was more Uprock than it was like spinning on your back and stuff like that. That actually came a little later. It was more Uprocking....it was more about expressions and things like that, you know what I'm saying? When I saw these guys breakdancing which was The Smoke-A-Trons and The Luke-A-Trons.......but you know The Smoke-A-Trons they would do something I had never seen before and that I have never seen since. They were all like gymnastics and they would do somersaults and Arabian Nights..those are like flips you see in the olympics... and go down on the floor and all that. I never passed that test to do the flipping....because I wasn't a gymnast but these guys were like street gymnasts and they were like really good...You know how you see like sometimes B-Boys they do a B-Boy move and then they go down on the ground...these guys were doing that with flips and stuff like that!! It was incredible....it was so incredible so that's what I wanted to do 'cause I was too young to buy equipment (for DJing) and Graffiti...

Castles In The Sky: August 2018

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts

Well, when did you guys decide that, from the Zulu Kings and all, that you three and Bambaataa were going to be The Soulsonic Force, more as a music group?

So it wound up just being us three that stuck it out. 'Cause me and G.L.O.B.E. were more in the hip-hop area than the Bronx River was. See, where we came from, we were hip-hop, with The L Brothers, DJ Smokey and the Smokeatron, he was from Grand Avenue. And a lot of guys, they don't talk about him. I'll get back to what we were saying, but DJ Smokey, and his brother Roscoe and the Smokeatron, they were the baddest motherfukkers out at the time, man. I mean, Flash couldn't touch them, Kool Herc couldn't touch them. Nobody was touchin' Smokey. And a lot of cats will not speak on him, which they should, because he is also a pioneer of hip-hop music.

And what happened to him?

I heard he moved out of state. I heard he moved before hip-hop music turned big. I guess he cut it loose and went about his life, but DJ Smokey and his brother Roscoe, let me tell you, they threw the baddest parties. You wanted to see some guys that could dance? Man, it was a show! There's a movie theatre we had over on 174th St in the Bronx River called The Dover movie theatre that had a place you could give parties - it's a church now - but he made that spot very popular. He used to throw block parties mostly on Grand Avenue. And this guy here, I wanna let the world know about him; he definitely deserves his props, man, because he was there in the beginning. And a lot of guys don't that brother his recognition, which is sad; and I'ma give it to him every time all the time

Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Jesus christ....

So we really stickying all this anecdotal rambling from people too insecure to just accept Hip Hop was created by a Jamaican-born DJ in the Bronx for American audiences? This is what TLR calls sticky-worthy "comprehensive" history.

interviews
book excerpts
And statements from the pioneers themselves

is anecdotal rambling to you

 

[IllmaticDelta]

interviews
book excerpts
And statements from the pioneers themselves

is anecdotal rambling to you

dude has no logic rooted in reality to his claims.....he just wants to believe that old origin story from the mid 1980s that's been repeated over and over

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Yo. Damn man. take this rep. Will peep everything but a nice summary telling 1 complete story from beginnings to endings would be nice.

here's a little something to get you started