A comprehensive guide to the origin/roots of HipHop's elements (all verified facts w/ OG interviews)

[newarkhiphop]

The stuff from the 1920s and 1940s are THE ROOTS of what came later in HipHop when the label HipHop was coined to describe what was going on in the 1970s. Now, does it remove the credit of influence from those 1970s guys? This is up for debate depending on what side of the argument you fall on; one thing is for sure, the 1970s guys were a continuation of a mix of cultural practices that existed for decades prior







Louis Jordan with that slick talk circa 1948





what aspect of hiphop are you talking about?

See these are good examples (the tweets) to me dude in the first tweet isn't rapping he just sounds like a normal fast talking radio host. Second tweet U Roy has nothing else to label slick/fast talking as so he is calling it rapping

the aspect of hip-hop am talking/interested in with this topic is the rhyming over a beat

 

[Wild self]

Facts. Over there in The Booth, it’s like Hip Hop didn’t even exist prior to 1988

The Booth also pretends that Public Enemy and X-Clan doesn't exist.

But I'm shocked that this topic gotten stickied

 

[IllmaticDelta]

See these are good examples (the tweets) to me dude in the first tweet isn't rapping he just sounds like a normal fast talking radio host. Second tweet U Roy has nothing else to label slick/fast talking as so he is calling it rapping

the aspect of hip-hop am talking/interested in with this topic is the rhyming over a beat

The first examples of people rhyming syncopated over a beat of any kind are blues/jazz/gospel records from the 1920s/1930s.

Spoiler

The first songs to sound completely like hiphop (meaning, over a funk beat) came in the 1960s/early 1970s because Funk (breakbeats) was born no earlier than 1965

1968



1972

 

[Wear My Dawg's Hat]

Good topic, hoping it stays civil.

I'll sticky this, it will probably turn into the usual coli shyt show, but my question has always been this

Does being influenced by = denial of creation

When this topic comes up I always see alot of reference to old jazz beats from the 40s or some dude who said something that rhymed in the 50s. Does this take away from the people who put it all "together" (and got the actual credit for it) in the 80s like herc, bamm, flash

in your links I see alot of names of dudes from that period who are saying they did first but that's typical hip-hop, is there something more concrete

Or does having been influenced by a previous form of art or expression, preclude the creation of a newer form of art or expression?

For those of us who were around at the time in 1980, you were more likely in The Bronx to hear a deejay at a party play "New York, New York" by Frank Sinatra than you would have heard "Here Comes The Judge" by Pigmeat Markham, even though Pigmeat is technical rapping on Here Comes The Judge.

Meanwhile, Frankie Crocker would play "New York, New York" on his WBLS show right before he would end his show with Moody's Mood For Love (which was also played at parties during that time because of Frankie Crocker's heavy NYC music influence in the 1970s and 1980s).

But today, someone might cite "Here Comes The Judge" as a influencer on the developing 1970s Bronx/Harlem Hip Hop scene when it wasn't played at parties or cassettes at the time.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

I want to invite some friends like @Dusty Bake Activate to this curation

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Also @IllmaticDelta

What role did "hustlers convention" play

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Also @IllmaticDelta

What role did "hustlers convention" play

A big role...that's one of the albums where NYC youth first heard rapping..word to Melle Mel





see trailer



Herc:

 

[Wear My Dawg's Hat]

Facts. Over there in The Booth, it’s like Hip Hop didn’t even exist prior to 1988

Or that it was created some time in between the releases of Illmatic, Reasonable Doubt and Get Rich Or Die Tryin.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

 

[KyokushinKarateMan]

This doesn't hold up even by Herc's own recount of becoming a dj and when he first saw hiphop being done

don't come into this shyt with intellectually dishonest takes

you either want the real story or you dont

Gen-X babble

 

[Hoodoo Child]

Knew this was coming

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Gen-X babble

Come with receipts or don't come at all


Ask yourself. What can you dispute that's in the o.p

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Or does having been influenced by a previous form of art or expression, preclude the creation of a newer form of art or expression?

For those of us who were around at the time in 1980, you were more likely in The Bronx to hear a deejay at a party play "New York, New York" by Frank Sinatra than you would have heard "Here Comes The Judge" by Pigmeat Markham, even though Pigmeat is technical rapping on Here Comes The Judge.

Meanwhile, Frankie Crocker would play "New York, New York" on his WBLS show right before he would end his show with Moody's Mood For Love (which was also played at parties during that time because of Frankie Crocker's heavy NYC music influence in the 1970s and 1980s).

But today, someone might cite "Here Comes The Judge" as a influencer on the developing 1970s Bronx/Harlem Hip Hop scene when it wasn't played at parties or cassettes at the time.

Most of the early foundational NYC rappers (DJ Hollywood, KC Prince Of Soul, Luvbug Starski, Melle mel) cite Hank Spann as their radio jock influence

 

[K.O.N.Y]

how jazz era new york led into the early disco dj era new york needs to be in here

The concept of DJs calling themselves unique names for instance
came from the jazz age
@IllmaticDelta

 

[IllmaticDelta]

from the same Afram "Toast" lineage