A comprehensive guide to the origin/roots of HipHop's elements (all verified facts w/ OG interviews)

[IllmaticDelta]

"These traditions flourished any place ADOS existed; the difference was, that NYC black djs took these styles from OG Rhythm and Blues DJs and applied/updated them to/for the Disco era. So Jocko Henderson (OG R&B and Jazz)--> Hank Spann (Soul music)-----> KC Prince of Soul (what became the early Disco scene)-----> Dj Hollywood (fully formed style that would be called Disco rap)"

There you have it

the idea of DJs and rappers having these stylized names is direct turnover from Jazz culture?

the Thelonius monks,count basies dizzy gillespie etc

The old school R&B djs had names like Jazz musicians

Jamaican selectors of the 1950s named themselves in the style of Jazz musicians



The early HipHop djs would give their SOUNDSYSTEMS names in the style of Jazz musicians too

but HipHop rappers actually have names more in the Blues tradition

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Jazz Nicknames related to Battle

 

[GoAggieGo.]

So much information. Thanks for all this @IllmaticDelta

 

[K.O.N.Y]

So bboying vs brooklyn uprocking @IllmaticDelta

 

[IllmaticDelta]

So bboying vs brooklyn uprocking @IllmaticDelta

Brooklyn Uprocking is a inncorrect description by Puerto Ricans of a dance(s) that existed all over in NYC by Aframs.

The dance/moves were known as "Burning" and "Freestyle". The OG "Burning" moves/movements were actually made by black women when "clowning" someone else.

is an example of the motion of Burning


For more context:

 

[IllmaticDelta]

cont....


This same "burning" made its way into gang-based dancing and took on that same "clowning" concept into a more personal form where people started pantomimes of guns, beat downs/fighting, etc...

Although women participated in this style of dance, it was usually danced by two men facing each other. The underlying philosophy of Rocking was to undermine the "opponent" with hand gestures called "burns". One would "burn" one's opponent with a variety of these hand gestures that would mimic an action that would be considered detrimental to the dancer's adversary. Two examples of typical and fundamental burns are the bow and arrow, and the shotgun. The "winner" of these mock battles was usually the individual who was able to choreograph and execute his or her burns creatively and even artistically to the rhythm and syncopation of the music.

In this sophisticated and rhythmic form of Rock paper scissors, one would have to dance thoughtfully as to not step forward and inadvertently get one's head "sledge hammered". Although it is common knowledge that Uprocking is supposed to be a mock battle, those who are less professional sometimes get carried away with the dance which can result in real violence.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The difference/connection between Burning/Uprock and Bboying

OG Bboy Trixie explains:

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Brooklyn Uprocking is a inncorrect description by Puerto Ricans of a dance(s) that existed all over in NYC by Aframs.

OG Bboy Sasa talks about "Uprocking" being a 1980s term via Puerto Ricans/Rock Steady Crew for what he just called "dancing/bboying upright"

 

[IllmaticDelta]

What we now call bboying originated in brooklyn/harlem rocking aka Burning (which was witnessed at Discos) and the burning dances of gangs like the Black Spades.

Uprock, or Rocking as it was originally referred to, also known as Rock, is a competitive urban street dance, performed to the beats and rhythms of soul, rock and funk music, but was mostly danced to a specific and exclusive collection of songs that contained a hard driving beat. An example of such a song is the Uprock classic "It's Just Begun" by noted jazz musician Jimmy Castor. The dance consists of foot shuffles, spins, turns, freestyle movements and more characteristically a four-point sudden body movement called "jerk".

Uprock evolved in New York City circa in the late 1960s. A precursor and influence to this form of dance was gang culture.

As Rocking/Uprocking developed, body movements called "jerks" and hand gestures called "burns" (as defined above in this article), would be added to emulate a fight against an opposing dancer. Being skillful in this new dance form, Apache would get the better of his opponents by skillfully using burns. Dancers throughout New York City in all Boroughs continued to invent new movements and gestures to create a street dance. Many gang members began to perform this dance. It became commonplace to see gang members hanging out in corners dancing against each other. Rocking/Uprocking became a competitive dance that caught on very quickly.

now, connect the dots....

On the Ilixor boards, PappaWheelie reports that "At a lecture about hip hop history at the Brooklyn public library the lecturer was interupted, while claiming hip hop to have originated out in the Bronx, by an angry man claiming hip hop to have started out in Brooklyn. After gaing the attention of the crowd the man, whose name escapes me now, proceded to produce photos and a flyer, both dated 1968, of Grandmaster Flowers rocking a party of thousands in Brooklyn and in the front row are what appeared to be bboys uprocking. Who knows, it might just turn out to be that Brooklyn keeps on makin it and its the Bronx that keeps on takin it."

Brooklyn Music: BrooklynBio: The Mystery of Grandmaster Flowers

 

[K.O.N.Y]

so from all of this hip hop fashion must have stemmed from the culture of the bboy+new york urbanism(what we call "retro" today)

Then later got mixed with the fashion of the hustler/pimp

@IllmaticDelta

 

[IllmaticDelta]

More context:


B-Boy Puppet Master (The Shaka Zulus):

SIR NORIN RAD:"From what I have heard huge parts of the Bronx were divided into different gang territories in the early 1970s and you told me you joined a gang called the Peacemakers. How did that come about?"

PUPPET MASTER:"That's true. 1971 I joined the Peacemakers. I was eleven so I was a Baby Peacemaker. You had the Baby Peacemakers, The Young Peacemakers...and the Peacemakers. From 1968 to 1973 it was all gang culture, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it that one had to do in order to join the Peacemakers?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Sometimes you had to go through the Apache Line. Sometimes you might have to fight a 1 on 1, a 2 on 1 or a 3 on 1. It depends on who the person was. If the person looked kinda shakey then they would tell him, "Do the Apache Line!" If the brother looked like he could hold his own it wasn't no Apache Line it was just, "Come on in!" With me it wasn't no Apache Line, I fought the vice president and the warlord and they let me in."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did it mean to be a Peacemaker? Did you have to wear specific colors?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yeah, we all wore colors. Ours was the peace sign on the back. When the Peacemakers first started in 1971 it was a peace sign and it may have the crossed swords or crossed 44s (guns) 'cause actually a peacemaker is a 44 pistol. A peacemaker, you know? So yeah, we had colors, a top to bottom rocker and our symbol was the peace sign."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How many divisions did the Peacemakers have back then?"

PUPPET MASTER:"We had altogether 36 divisions. We had Peacemakers in the Bronx. Marmion Ave & Tremont...that's where our club house was at......Lambert, Uptown....Gun Hill Road, Edenwald Projects. We als had Peacemakers in Harlem....Douglas Projects, 145th, 144th, 143rd, 142nd Street & Broadway all that was Peacemakers' turf (territory) back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Talking to Kusa from the Zulu Masters I heard that what actually got him into Breaking was watching the Black Spades doing their specific dance at Bronx River. Did the Peacemakers also have dancers among them? Would they dance at their club house or at parties? What did their dance look like?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yes, there was dancing going on. We would have Peacemaker parties or sometimes even when the Black Spades gave a party we would come to their party. Or the Black Spades would come to a Peacemaker party. They were our allies. Yeah, they would be dancing and there would be the gestures, you understand, the waving of the hands. They might do a little spin, kick a leg out...it wasn't going on the floor at that time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Peacemakers also have an anthem? I was told that the anthem of the Black Spades was James Brown's "Soul Power". Whenever they would gather before a rumble they would listen to that song and chant, "Spade Power!" instead of "Soul Power!""

PUPPET MASTER:" Right, right. Ours was Funkadelics "Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On" and then we also had "Potential" (by Jimmy Castor). We would say,"Makers, maker, maker, maker, make" to the rhythm of the bass in the beginning of that song."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall a DJ by the name of Lay Lay who was down with the Fun City Crew? Many Puerto Rican B-Boys from such crews as The Bronx Boys or Rockwell Association told me that they went to his jams and that he was a Peacemaker once, too."

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh you're talking about Peacemaker Lay Lay. Peacemaker Lay Lay was the warlord of the Peacemakers. Peacemaker Lay Lay was an original. First of all I'd like to say,"May Allah be pleased with him!" because this brother passed away about three or four years ago. He was the warlord of the Peacemakers, the supreme warlord of the Peacemakers. Later on he formed Fun City. Fun City is an extension, like a subdivision of the Peacemakers. They were still Peacemakers, they just called it Fun City Crew. You understand? Like the Casanovas...most of the Casanovas were Black Spades. I know DJ Lay Lay very well, he used to play in the park over there..... 129 school yard by the pool."

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[IllmaticDelta]

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Ricans learned these black dances from the sidelines and then created their own terms for them, which would later cause confusion an erroneous origin claims
B-Boy Aby (The Bronx Boys) (Puerto Rican)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Willie Will (legendary Puerto Rican B-Boy from Rockwell Association) told me about how we was introduced to that original Black B-Boy Style of dancing which you referred to as The Go Off in 1976 by a B-Boy called Chopper that was down with the Zulu Nation. What was the relationship between TBB and the Zulu Nation? Was there any kind of contact at all?"

ABY:"Again, I was younger. I was too young to even understand the difference between Black and Puerto Rican. But to my brothers...to the older guys there was a barrier....there was a line between Blacks and Latinos. I mean look at the gangs back then...the Black Spades were all black and then you had the Ghetto Brothers which were all Latinos....so there was a division at first. I remember the Zulu Kings only from late 1976/77 that's when we really got involved. That's also when Batch had his meeting with the Zulu Nation..1977. TBB and members of the Zulu Nation they used to have rumbles.....they would fight against each other. Whatever jam they went to they would rumble. If there was a jam and TBB was chilling there and all of a sudden some one threw hands Batch would summon TBB Joe's division who was known as the warlord division meaning thay handled all the rumbles or one on one fight make sure no one jumped in !! . One of the first black DJs that I ever met was Lay Lay. He was from Fun PM City Crew and they was all black but they was kool cause they were from the block.We never had problems in 129 Mapes Pool. Lay Lay would get cutting and we would start dancing !! Back then we danced more with the girls than against each other .. But when we heard "It's Just Begun" or Babe Ruth "Mexican" or "Bongo Rock"... forget about it! Floor rockers hit the flooooorrrrrrr,!!! Cypher set and battles was for respect not money .. You had to be there to truly understand and smell the air and feel the excitement when the cat you was battling burned you the last time and you been practicing all week long for the moment you let it all out on the concrete ... Damn miss em days ."

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Zulu King, Cholly Rock describing the Black Spades, dance (Burning) and its influence on bboying

 

[IllmaticDelta]

so from all of this hip hop fashion must have stemmed from the culture of the bboy+new york urbanism(what we call "retro" today)

yes for the NYC hiphop fashion foundations

Then later got mixed with the fashion of the hustler/pimp

@IllmaticDelta

In NYC? It def took from the street hustler

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Cholly Rock on Burnin

 

[GPBear]

Yeah we get it breh, you hate Herc


The way you act like you’re establishing facts just by posting YouTube videos and highlighting shyt in crazy colors is hilarious