A Blown Knee & Flat Tires-Another NY Pothole Year: 17-18 Knicks Season Thread

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KP was a project too:sas2:

nah im just playing.

i wasn't expecting frank to avg numbers like dennis smith. but i was expecting better den what he showed

this narrative that i hate frank is bullshyt, i got love for him.
Breh, you have to stop saying "Frank is trash", then. Lol.:russ:

You're getting into intense debate & argument sessions only because of how you're describing his season.

Knowing he's a project and knowing that KP's rookie season was the rarest of Rae occurences, you have to be a little lighter on the criticism rhetoric, is all.:yeshrug:
 

RickyGQ

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Considering the result of the NCAA tourney, I could see a lot of trash talk, competitiveness and bonding between Timmy, Burke and Villanov'a Bridges over the course of next year.

Let's hope this happens.

If anything, we gotta draft him just to keep him away from Philly. My god that team would be devastating on defense.
 

storyteller

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i can play your game:mjgrin:

During the first portion of the 2014-


15 season, film sessions were a topic of discussion among the players. Blatt was reluctant to criticize star players even when they clearly messed up a play. This became routine. It got so bad that I'm told that Lue finally intervened, stood up and demanded that somebody rewind the footage so that he could get on members of The Big 3.

During team scrimmages, players competed aggressively but bit their tongues as Blatt frequently blew his whistle to call ticky-tack or phantom fouls for his go-to players. One player said sometimes Blatt didn't even have a whistle and would yell at the top of his lungs to stop play and call a foul if one of his stars acted as if he was hit.

Word circulated to cleveland.com that Blatt had trouble drawing up plays out of timeouts. He would freeze up and waste precious seconds, one player said. He would even draw up plays for players who weren't in the game, another player said.


Lue's connection with the players is rock solid, with a reputation for understanding how to manage personalities. He has played with two of the league's biggest personalities -- Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant -- and he's been coached by some of the greats.

Blatt didn't have the necessary relationship with his guys to get players to buy in. Lue is expected to hold players accountable. He's not afraid to give James a piece of his mind. Players from 1 down to 15 will be held responsible.



Blatt is timid and is a yes man. hes not used to the culture of the nba, and isn't trying to ruffle any feathers. knicks fans would eat him alive:picard:


Jackson and fits aint perfect, but they hold players accountable, and they stand up for themselves even if it means getting fired

horn was a yes man, why would u want another.

I wonder what Woj had to say on this matter, considering he's one of the most reliable writers in the NBA...

How David Blatt never stood a chance with LeBron James and his camp

Before David Blatt ever conducted his first training camp practice in September 2014, Cleveland Cavaliers star LeBron James and his agent, Rich Paul, had the coach's succession plan in place: Mark Jackson.

To become the preferred candidate of the most powerful player in the NBA – and de facto Cavaliers general manager – Jackson understood what he needed to do: Bring on James' and Paul's Klutch Sports agency as his representation, and prepare to deliver those commission fees into the King's coffers. Blatt never had a chance. He never knew what hit him.


From the beginning, the Klutch Sports campaign to puncture Blatt's standing as head coach had been as relentless as it was ruthless. James is one of the great leaders in pro sports, and he directed the Cavaliers how he wanted them: in complete defiance of Blatt.

In the end, here was the problem for Klutch Sports' original plan: Cleveland refused to hire Jackson. General manager David Griffin is too well-connected in the NBA, too knowledgeable of the truths inside Jackson's Warriors regime to let that happen. So much of Griffin's job has been to manage the constant demands of James' camp and the volatility of owner Dan Gilbert. As much as anything, his job has been to bridge the chaos above and below him.

Once James' camp realized that Jackson would never be considered as coach – nor would Lue leave his representation to join Klutch Sports agency, despite overtures – Lue became a compromise choice for James' group, sources said. They started pushing for Lue to replace Blatt last season, and grew louder in those calls in recent days and weeks.

Gilbert made Lue the league's highest-paid assistant coach at $2 million-plus a year, forever considering him the head-coach-in-waiting should Blatt need to go. Ultimately, Blatt had little staying power with the Cavaliers, because James had turned Blatt's removal into an inevitability. As the games wore on, opposing players on the floor weren't only watching James constantly wave off plays from the coach – but role players feeling emboldened to disregard the head coach's instructions, too.

James had the Cavaliers existing in open rebellion for more than a season now, with no Pat Riley in the organizational shadows to scare everyone into compliance.


Blatt made mistakes in his transition to the NBA, struggled sometimes to gather the nuances of a complex game of matchups and situations. He had coached in the Euroleague for two decades, and had to sell himself on a new coaching staff, a new roster and the generation's best player.

Tristan Thompson, whom they leveraged into a five-year, $82 million contract. Rival agents find themselves spending more time with clients who end up with the Cavaliers, if only because Rich Paul and his associates work to pilfer players for Klutch Sports, promising the power of James' influence in contract talks with the team." For all the agent competitors complaining over Klutch Sports' control in Cleveland, it is the kind of leverage no agent would ever reject over an NBA franchise. Outside of his own maximum contract, James and Klutch Sports could turn the Cavaliers into one of the loose slot machines across the street in Gilbert's casinos. It worked with client Tristan Thompson, whom they leveraged into a five-year, $82 million contract. Rival agents find themselves spending more time with clients who end up with the Cavaliers, if only because Rich Paul and his associates work to pilfer players for Klutch Sports, promising the power of James' influence in contract talks with the team.

So here's what's coming now: the trickle of stories on Blatt's incompetence, the fact that no one respected him, and maybe most of all, that James had nothing to do with his firing. For all the fairytales sold on James' return to Cleveland, this was forever about business – the kind of business they couldn't do within Riley's organization, nor Erik Spoelstra's locker room.

LeBron James runs the Cleveland organization, a choice Dan Gilbert made upon the superstar's return to Northeast Ohio. There's no shame there. Nothing that needs an apology out of him. He's constructed a way to maximize his basketball and business interests on Gilbert's dime, and it is possible that James will get all that and win a championship, too.

Once the Cavaliers decided to fire Blatt on Friday, they offered Lue a three-year deal. He considered taking the job on an interim basis for the rest of the season, betting on himself, but ultimately decided on a three-year, $9.5 million contract, sources told Yahoo Sports. This is still the opportunity of a lifetime, a fabulous array of talent that gives a young coach the chance to chase championships.

Lemme guess, your unsourced comments come from someone just as reputable and respect as Woj though right?

P.S. Blatt's win percentage in the first 41 games of that season he got fired .734; Lue's in the next 41 games with the exact same roster .659...tell me again how bad a job Blatt was doing :russ:
 
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Blatt wouldn't be an awful hire, a Princeton inspired offense could work well with the Knicks as long as he incorporates some different things into it, just resign O'Quinn so you have a big man who can pass out there. Lebron and Kyrie are iso heavy players so Blatts offense wasn't incorporated the way he probably wanted it to be. But the fact that the Cavs pace was so slow under Blatt would worry me( Lue made it a point to speed the offense up after he was fired) and the way the players stopped trying under him is a big concern too, he might not have that issue with a younger team though. IIRC Jacksons teams were dead last in total passes the last season and led the league in isos the last season he was there, if he gets hired all we'll see is Timmy chucking and KP iso-ing, putting up a bunch of long ugly two's like was doing earlier this year. It's hard to say a team that went to the playoffs as a sixth seed two years in a row underachieved, but the fact that the Warriors won a championship right after he was fired is a sign that he at least didn't know how to utilize his players properly( That's too big of a leap to just put on player development). Honestly if Mark Jackson stays, Draymond probably never becomes a full time starter and Lee would probably have still logged major minutes, and they most likely don't win a title. He was a great defensive coach but the terrible offense he employs offsets that completely.

Aside from X's and O's, both Blatt and Jackson have "reputations" that the NY media would exploit and tear apart; Blatt being the soft coach that gets bullied and ignored, and Mark being the crazy evangelical. Even if there's nothing there to talk about, the media would manufacture something that fits the narrative on them, and turn it into a distraction for the team. I don't know if most of the stuff said about either is completely true, it's all second hand accounts from anonymous people, but it wouldn't matter to the media unfortunately. So even though hiring a coach who's proven to be good already makes sense, Fizdale is really the only guy who fits that description, which is why I say if you can't get him, seriously look at hiring new blood.

edit: The stuff about Lebron leading a mutiny against Blatt though:picard: I completely forgot about that rumor.
 
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Malta

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Now who else wanna fukk with Hollywood Court?
KP was a project too:sas2:

nah im just playing.

i wasn't expecting frank to avg numbers like dennis smith. but i was expecting better den what he showed

this narrative that i hate frank is bullshyt, i got love for him.


What exactly were you expecting? You must have had unrealistic expectations of what he'd do, he showed he's an even better defrender than expected and needed a lot of work offensively which is what people knew coming in.

Porzingis is 7'3", him being a project was overstated, especially considering he was taken top 5.
 

seemorecizzy

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What exactly were you expecting? You must have had unrealistic expectations of what he'd do, he showed he's an even better defrender than expected and needed a lot of work offensively which is what people knew coming in.

Porzingis is 7'3", him being a project was overstated, especially considering he was taken top 5.
i find absolutely hilarious that so many people in here are posting with a straight face that there expectations for frank before the season were for him to average 5 points 3 assists on 30 percent from the field, and 30 percent from three with solid pick and role defense:laff: and those expectations were met.
 

seemorecizzy

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I wonder what Woj had to say on this matter, considering he's one of the most reliable writers in the NBA...

How David Blatt never stood a chance with LeBron James and his camp



Lemme guess, your unsourced comments come from someone just as reputable and respect as Woj though right?

P.S. Blatt's win percentage in the first 41 games of that season he got fired .734; Lue's in the next 41 games with the exact same roster .659...tell me again how bad a job Blatt was doing :russ:
are you saying the aritcle i posted was completely made up or something?:mjlol:

your article doesn't contradict mine. both can be accurate

lebron saw his coaching style after one practice and was like:camby:

and he wanted mark jackson:mjgrin:

and we know he feels about fits

blatt is not worth the risk, theres a reason why no one else wants him bruh hes been a free agent for a minute:russ:
 

Malta

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Now who else wanna fukk with Hollywood Court?
i find absolutely hilarious that so many people in here are posting with a straight face that there expectations for frank before the season were for him to average 5 points 3 assists on 30 percent from the field, and 30 percent from three with solid pick and role defense:laff: and those expectations were met.


Again, what were you expecting from him?

Did you miss Khris Dunn stinking it up last year as a 23 yr old rookie, or Gary Harris rookie year where he posted similar numbers to Frank?

I expected him to be very raw on offense, and average-decent on defense, he exceeded my expectations defensively and I always thought of him as a project offensively. You talking about Porzingis being a project in relation to a 19 yr old foreign guard just shows how out there you are with what you expected.
 

seemorecizzy

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Again, what were you expecting from him?

Did you miss Khris Dunn stinking it up last year as a 23 yr old rookie, or Gary Harris rookie year where he posted similar numbers to Frank?

I expected him to be very raw on offense, and average-decent on defense, he exceeded my expectations defensively and I always thought of him as a project offensively. You talking about Porzingis being a project in relation to a 19 yr old foreign guard just shows how out there you are with what you expected.

:snoop:
 

storyteller

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are you saying the aritcle i posted was completely made up or something?:mjlol:

your article doesn't contradict mine. both can be accurate

It literally says, rumors out of cleveland would paint Blatt the way your article does,
So here's what's coming now: the trickle of stories on Blatt's incompetence, the fact that no one respected him, and maybe most of all, that James had nothing to do with his firing. For all the fairytales sold on James' return to Cleveland, this was forever about business – the kind of business they couldn't do within Riley's organization, nor Erik Spoelstra's locker room.

lebron saw his coaching style after one practice and was like:camby:

and he wanted mark jackson:mjgrin:

It literally says Lebron and company had already made up their mind before Blatt ever had a chance to coach a practice, so no again...you're wrong.
Before David Blatt ever conducted his first training camp practice


and we know he feels about fits
blatt is not worth the risk, theres a reason why no one else wants him bruh hes been a free agent for a minute:russ:

He's been out of the league for a season and a half but could have come back; he refused to take an assistant job and wait to be a HC. Fitz ain't a bad option, but it's not like he did anything remotely special with that Grizzlies team. He's a coach I'd take a shot on but it's flat out dumb to pretend Blatt is a bad coach when Fitz got fired for beef with the star player aka the EXACT SAME REASON Blatt did. All the talk of incompetence is hard to prove when the Cavs got worse immediately after Blatt got fired (especially defensively). Gimme Ettore Messina or Blatt over any of the hamfisted names getting thrown out. Those two have actual stripes which is something every other example lacks sans Mark Jackson whose accomplishments look fugazi when you consider a rookie HC with no assistant experience improved that team to record breaking levels right after Jackson was fired.
 

seemorecizzy

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It literally says, rumors out of cleveland would paint Blatt the way your article does,




It literally says Lebron and company had already made up their mind before Blatt ever had a chance to coach a practice, so no again...you're wrong.





He's been out of the league for a season and a half but could have come back; he refused to take an assistant job and wait to be a HC. Fitz ain't a bad option, but it's not like he did anything remotely special with that Grizzlies team. He's a coach I'd take a shot on but it's flat out dumb to pretend Blatt is a bad coach when Fitz got fired for beef with the star player aka the EXACT SAME REASON Blatt did. All the talk of incompetence is hard to prove when the Cavs got worse immediately after Blatt got fired (especially defensively). Gimme Ettore Messina or Blatt over any of the hamfisted names getting thrown out. Those two have actual stripes which is something every other example lacks sans Mark Jackson whose accomplishments look fugazi when you consider a rookie HC with no assistant experience improved that team to record breaking levels right after Jackson was fired.
I never said blatt was a bad coach
I said hes a bad fit for us, especially after horn
They are similar people, and we dont need a guy from a completely different style of basketball and culture coming here and learning on the fly, especially in ny.

Your opinión tho
 

storyteller

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Blatt wouldn't be an awful hire, a Princeton inspired offense could work well with the Knicks as long as he incorporates some different things into it, just resign O'Quinn so you have a big man who can pass out there. Lebron and Kyrie are iso heavy players so Blatts offense wasn't incorporated the way he probably wanted it to be. But the fact that the Cavs pace was so slow under Blatt would worry me( Lue made it a point to speed the offense up after he was fired) and the way the players stopped trying under him is a big concern too, he might not have that issue with a younger team though. IIRC Jacksons teams were dead last in total passes the last season and led the league in isos the last season he was there, if he gets hired all we'll see is Timmy chucking and KP iso-ing, putting up a bunch of long ugly two's like was doing earlier this year. It's hard to say a team that went to the playoffs as a sixth seed two years in a row underachieved, but the fact that the Warriors won a championship right after he was fired is a sign that he at least didn't know how to utilize his players properly( That's too big of a leap to just put on player development). Honestly if Mark Jackson stays, Draymond probably never becomes a full time starter and Lee would probably have still logged major minutes, and they most likely don't win a title. He was a great defensive coach but the terrible offense he employs offsets that completely.

Aside from X's and O's, both Blatt and Jackson have "reputations" that the NY media would exploit and tear apart; Blatt being the soft coach that gets bullied and ignored, and Mark being the crazy evangelical. Even if there's nothing there to talk about, the media would manufacture something that fits the narrative on them, and turn it into a distraction for the team. I don't know if most of the stuff said about either is completely true, it's all second hand accounts from anonymous people, but it wouldn't matter to the media unfortunately. So even though hiring a coach who's proven to be good already makes sense, Fizdale is really the only guy who fits that description, which is why I say if you can't get him, seriously look at hiring new blood.

edit: The stuff about Lebron leading a mutiny against Blatt though:picard: I completely forgot about that rumor.

I'd put it this way, if you remove the rumors and stories...the product on the court was high level and the quality of play actually dipped slightly after he left. Factor in something like 20 years of success between being an assistant and HC in Europe and I don't see how Blatt gets dismissed based on anything we've actually witnessed. Fizdale gets the same sort of pass from me but I prefer Blatt for the Euro-connection and the fact that I think his approach will work a lot better with younger players.
 

ProlificLurker

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Blatt wouldn't be an awful hire, a Princeton inspired offense could work well with the Knicks as long as he incorporates some different things into it, just resign O'Quinn so you have a big man who can pass out there. Lebron and Kyrie are iso heavy players so Blatts offense wasn't incorporated the way he probably wanted it to be. But the fact that the Cavs pace was so slow under Blatt would worry me( Lue made it a point to speed the offense up after he was fired) and the way the players stopped trying under him is a big concern too, he might not have that issue with a younger team though. IIRC Jacksons teams were dead last in total passes the last season and led the league in isos the last season he was there, if he gets hired all we'll see is Timmy chucking and KP iso-ing, putting up a bunch of long ugly two's like was doing earlier this year. It's hard to say a team that went to the playoffs as a sixth seed two years in a row underachieved, but the fact that the Warriors won a championship right after he was fired is a sign that he at least didn't know how to utilize his players properly( That's too big of a leap to just put on player development). Honestly if Mark Jackson stays, Draymond probably never becomes a full time starter and Lee would probably have still logged major minutes, and they most likely don't win a title. He was a great defensive coach but the terrible offense he employs offsets that completely.

Aside from X's and O's, both Blatt and Jackson have "reputations" that the NY media would exploit and tear apart; Blatt being the soft coach that gets bullied and ignored, and Mark being the crazy evangelical. Even if there's nothing there to talk about, the media would manufacture something that fits the narrative on them, and turn it into a distraction for the team. I don't know if most of the stuff said about either is completely true, it's all second hand accounts from anonymous people, but it wouldn't matter to the media unfortunately. So even though hiring a coach who's proven to be good already makes sense, Fizdale is really the only guy who fits that description, which is why I say if you can't get him, seriously look at hiring new blood.

edit: The stuff about Lebron leading a mutiny against Blatt though:picard: I completely forgot about that rumor.

Good post.

I don't want either Blatt or Jackson :hubie:

Fizdale, Jay Wright, Stackhouse. I'd take a look at Rivers if he became available too. That's my wishlist to replace dumbfukk Hornacek.

Honestly they need to clear out the entire coaching staff. Promote some guys from the G-League staff and throw a bag at Rod Strickland & Andre Miller to help our guards work on their handles
 
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