sdizzle
Pro
Frank would be an all star in a few years with his measurables under popavitch
A Blown Knee & Flat Tires-Another NY Pothole Year: 17-18 Knicks Season Thread
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Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
https://nypost.com/2018/03/07/how-knicks-responded-to-young-two-guard-debut-gone-bad/
As the Mudiay-Ntilikina tandem struggles, Hornacek admitted he’s “talked about’’ turning back to former starting point guard Jarrett Jack to restore order. Jack, by management’s request, has been a DNP for all six games out of the All-Star Break.
Get Hornacek on the next train out of here smh
storyteller
Superstar
https://nypost.com/2018/03/07/how-knicks-responded-to-young-two-guard-debut-gone-bad/
As the Mudiay-Ntilikina tandem struggles, Hornacek admitted he’s “talked about’’ turning back to former starting point guard Jarrett Jack to restore order. Jack, by management’s request, has been a DNP for all six games out of the All-Star Break.
Get Hornacek on the next train out of here smh
That whole article reads to me as Jeff's failure to develop these kids and the admission of guilt locks in when he says he might go back to Jarrett Jack. You have three PG's 25 or younger, each with unique traits, two of which have multiple years of NBA experience...none of them have improved under you.
These comments sound like a match for what I've seen from Frank all season. Not sure what to do or when to do it; but it's coming from Mudiay the second young PG to come in and start off alright only to regress quickly (also, I mentioned in the PG thread yesterday that I suspect Dotson is having the same confusion). That Lance Thomas spoke with him instead of Jeff Hornacek is frustrating as hell. You can't tell me these kids are getting much guidance when they either stagnate or regress once they're here. Trey Burke's growth literally ALL happened in the G-League.
Beyond that...what good does bringing Jack in do for this team? Who does it actually help? Not the youth...it'll make Beasley happy again probably but what players with future prospects gain anything from this? It reinstates the log jam that means one of Burke, Frank or Mudiay loses playing time and whether you want to scream "PT doesn't equal development" or not; PT DOES equate to more footage, more data and more repetitions...that stuff will aid in development for any player that puts in the effort this offseason.
Last bit, I love the timing of this. The Knicks had an opportunity to release Jack a week ago and he actually mentioned being open to it. For a team that is focused on building for the future, they could have given Jack a chance to find a team that would play him AND unlocked an extra roster spot to call up somebody and give them a shot. Now that the roster spot is essentially locked in though and now that the FO's actions have reflected some value in Jack over a fully committed youth move...we get Jeff's allusion to going full veterans and it's not like we didn't see him go veteran heavy just last week (chasing a win against the Kings youth with vets all second half at the expense of Frank's minutes when he'd KILLED it in the first half). I don't have huge criticisms for the Perry tenure, his hands have mostly been tied; but on the smaller move tip, color me skeptical.
ProlificLurker
Superstar
It's a damn shame man. Our G-League staff does a better job at developing the young guys than our professional staff
The shyt is pathetic
ProlificLurker
Superstar
You dudes kill me the way you overrate young players on the rare occasions the Knicks actually have some.I remember back in the Sohh days we had another young Frank at PG. Frank Williams was being touted as the Knicks PG of the future. He was outta the league shortly after his Knicks stint
I remember dudes acting like Landry Fields had next.
Chasson Randle, a fan fav hasn't caught on anywhere. Langston Galloway...who he play for? I don't know if its the Pels or Pistons but he aint in the rotation. Untradeable Willy Hernangomez can't even get minutes with the Hornets.
I remember back in Ariza's rookie year Sohh Knick fans were claiming he was gonna be a star. I was greeted with the usual hostility when I said I didn't see star potential. He turned out to be exactly who I thought he'd be. A solid starter and rotational player.
Not developing Dotson ain't nothing to lose sleep over
storyteller
Superstar
I remember back in the Sohh days we had another young Frank at PG. Frank Williams was being touted as the Knicks PG of the future. He was outta the league shortly after his Knicks stint
I remember dudes acting like Landry Fields had next.
Chasson Randle, a fan fav hasn't caught on anywhere. Langston Galloway...who he play for? I don't know if its the Pels or Pistons but he aint in the rotation. Untradeable Willy Hernangomez can't even get minutes with the Hornets.
I remember back in Ariza's rookie year Sohh Knick fans were claiming he was gonna be a star. I was greeted with the usual hostility when I said I didn't see star potential. He turned out to be exactly who I thought he'd be. A solid starter and rotational player.
Not developing Dotson ain't nothing to lose sleep over
Why shouldn't Dotson get minutes on a tanking team exactly?
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
Not only this but we’re not even giving these dudes to play live minutes and we’re just straight up not developing properly.
storyteller
Superstar
Exactly, I look at it this way. We are a rebuilding team and we've known it since before the deadline. Regardless of how you feel about a young player, there's not really a good reason to play vets with no future on this squad over them. Even more importantly, there's no reason to give up on them until you've given them ample time to show you where they're at so that you have an idea of how you would develop them and what challenges would arise. Dotson has never gone more than 7 games consecutively without a DNP; he's gotten over 20 mins in a game twice and he hasn't even played 300 NBA minutes yet. Wanting to see him get consistent minutes before giving up on him is a no-brainer to me, not because he's a stud; but because we're a rebuilding team with plenty of time and no reason to chase wins.
On your main point, most of these guys look like they're regressing and I'd argue that a big piece of that is Hornacek hasn't given them an actual role. He just throws them out there. Sometimes they stay in when they play well, other times they get a minutes cut after a good performance (like all our youth post-Golden State game). The lack of rhyme or reason could easily impact the players' psyche, especially the young ones but it has even had guys like Kanter and Noah complain. None of these kids is getting the kind of shot to develop that I'd want to see before giving up on them.
seemorecizzy
Superstar
Knicks fan once said chainnin frye was untradeable, i remember Tim Duncan comparisons in his rookie season
I remember back in the Sohh days we had another young Frank at PG. Frank Williams was being touted as the Knicks PG of the future. He was outta the league shortly after his Knicks stint
I remember dudes acting like Landry Fields had next.
Chasson Randle, a fan fav hasn't caught on anywhere. Langston Galloway...who he play for? I don't know if its the Pels or Pistons but he aint in the rotation. Untradeable Willy Hernangomez can't even get minutes with the Hornets.
I remember back in Ariza's rookie year Sohh Knick fans were claiming he was gonna be a star. I was greeted with the usual hostility when I said I didn't see star potential. He turned out to be exactly who I thought he'd be. A solid starter and rotational player.
Not developing Dotson ain't nothing to lose sleep over
Some of us can see a player is trash/not apart of our future quicker den others
seemorecizzy
Superstar
Ofcourse they are regressing
Everyone we should be developing is either playing out of position, gettin benched, or not getting consistent playing time
Mcbuckets was expiring and played a position we are weak at. Why trade him and pick up a player for a position we are
Stacked At?
This team gonna be trash for a while
storyteller
Superstar
The problem is it's all half in measures and that's definitely on the FO.
I don't mind trading an expiring and a second for a young PG we can check out for a year and half. Especially not when the coach refuses to play Frank at PG for some reason. But it should have been coupled with dealing Lee (because by cutting his minutes we've only devalued him more and that opens up guard minutes for the youth), waiving Jack (because Hornacek can't help himself with the vets and shows it any time a game is close) and aggressively shopped guys like Lance and Beasley. The only way to get the youth onto the floor with consistent opportunities and in consistent roles would have been to handcuff Hornacek with trades and waives. The thing is...I think the vets philosophy is equally Perry's because look at Sacramento. They got rid of Hill and plotted out benching one vet per night to make sure the youth gets on the floor.
If the rotation were something like Mudiay/Frank/THJ/Lance/Kanter and then Burke/Dotson/Williams/Kornet/KOQ ....it'd be an UGLY second half but at least the direction would be clear. At worst we'd be giving up on some of these young cats and replacing them with another round of tryouts for next season (we've got time, might as well keep trying things out).
We need a new coach and I'm not sure I trust our front office either...but jury's out for them, I'll give Perry the benefit in that he acquired a roster with no salary and not a lot of time to make moves.
seemorecizzy
Superstar
I do
Difference of opinion I guess
Mudiay is terrible
Thats not gonna suddently change with us
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
I wanna give Perry the benefit of the doubt but a lot of the trades under his watch been suspect.
storyteller
Superstar
Is it likely? Nah, way too much ground to cover. But when the alternative was Jarrett jack being ineffective and playing poor D. Might as well try the 21 yr old instead imo.
It’s a rebuild, using as many roster spots to get a look at as much youth as possible is way better to me than continuing to watch old dudes lose anyway. The new problem is that hornacek will play old dudes regardless.
The goal shouldn’t be for them all to hit, we know most of these young cats won’t. But findind an outlier is gonna work a lot better by trying out and giving real shots to as many of these kids as possible. I have zero hope for Kornet or Hicks but I’ll give them 500-1000 minutes to try and prove me wrong (at least until we can get better young prospects in their place), mainly because we’re gonna be bad anyway.
