[7/06 - 8/12] NJPW Present: G1 Climax 29

[TrueEpic08]

I gotta call foul on that opinion @Scottie Drippin. I know good and well how much of a lazy a$$hole Mutoh can be (Keiji Mutoh Specials are Keiji Mutoh Specials for a reason), but we can't just slander the man's name and deny him his due as a once great and influential wrestler. He's seen as one of the Three Musketeers for a reason.

First a non-ironic defense of Mike Bennett, now this. Opinions are getting weird in TSC...

 

[Scottie Drippin]

I gotta call foul on that opinion @Scottie Drippin. I know good and well how much of a lazy a$$hole Mutoh can be (Keiji Mutoh Specials are Keiji Mutoh Specials for a reason), but we can't just slander the man's name and deny him his due as a once great and influential wrestler. He's seen as one of the Three Musketeers for a reason.

First a non-ironic defense of Mike Bennett, now this. Opinions are getting weird in TSC...

All Muto's classic matches are with people who have more classic matches. I can divide.

Mutoh is a HUGE beneficiary of the old tape-trading/early onset internet fan beliefs of Japan = Good Worker and Japanese Main Eventer = Great Worker.

People used to hype up Taiyo Kea matches

Big Mutoh matches are basically 50/50 of good or unwatchable. Three Musketeers? Let's keep it super duper 100, Chono wasn't great either. Hash is the God but the others did not operate on his level. You know this family. There's a reason why all the best NJ matches in the 90's involve Hash and someone who wasn't in NJ (Tenryu).

 

[Jmare007]

I wouldn't be THAT harsh on Mutoh but he for sure is a case of perception not being able to meet reality. If you do a deep dive on his work you certainly come out being severely underwhelmed and thinking he was fine with some awesome highs. Dude is charismatic as fukk though so he could get by with that.

I do think he was hugely influential, and not only in Japan but his Muta run in the U.S is seen in high regard even to this day, which really fukking impressive. But I think it's fair to separate the figure/icon to the in ring wrestler if you are talking about in ring prowess


I've had a similar take on Dusty to be honest. A guy that was awesome at promos, hugely charismatic and very influential, but in ring he was just fine except for some very dope exceptions




PS. and yeah, let's not pretend like the Three Musketeers whole catalog of dope matches isn't 80% (or more) of Hash da gawd's work.

 

[stro]

Dusty never had a reputation as a high quality in ring guy, though

 

[TrueEpic08]

If we were talking about Chono I'd be 100% there with you two. With Mutoh I'm only about 60% there at most. It might be because I haven't really done the retrospective like I did with Hashimoto a few weeks ago, but I think we can give Mutoh a little more credit for his work than we're giving him right now.

 

[stro]

I think of the Three Musketeers at this point in 2019:

Mutoh is overrated a bit
Chono is underrated a bit
Hashimoto was the least consistent but his highs are the highest (his lows are probably the lowest, though)

 

[Jmare007]

If we were talking about Chono I'd be 100% there with you two. With Mutoh I'm only about 60% there at most. It might be because I haven't really done the retrospective like I did with Hashimoto a few weeks ago, but I think we can give Mutoh a little more credit for his work than we're giving him right now.

I think you'd change your mind if you ever do a deep dive on him, wouldn't recommended it though because there's not a lot to gain in doing it besides ending up about him.

I think of the Three Musketeers at this point in 2019:

Mutoh is overrated a bit
Chono is underrated a bit
Hashimoto was the least consistent but his highs are the highest (his lows are probably the lowest, though)

No way, Mutoh's lows are not only low but long and boring as fukk and I honestly can't figure out why you keep saying he's the least consistent when his 93' to 98' run shyts all over the other two's career. I mean, Hash wasn't consistent compared to other puro legends but when you put him in a conversation with Mutoh and Chono he sure as hell was able to bring it waaaay more often than the other two. shyt, Hashimoto is one of the VERY few New Japan guys that had some awesome tag matches after the 1980's.

I think Chono is properly rated. He's very highly esteemed and not because of his ring work, which is pretty spot on. But you might be right in terms of how he is perceived today by newer fans, I'm not even sure he's on their radar...though the same could be said about Hash.

 

[3Rivers]

The Muta/Mutoh slander

 

[stro]

I think you'd change your mind if you ever do a deep dive on him, wouldn't recommended it though because there's not a lot to gain in doing it besides ending up about him.



No way, Mutoh's lows are not only low but long and boring as fukk and I honestly can't figure out why you keep saying he's the least consistent when his 93' to 98' run shyts all over the other two's career. I mean, Hash wasn't consistent compared to other puro legends but when you put him in a conversation with Mutoh and Chono he sure as well was able to bring it waaaay more often than the other two. shyt, Hashimoto is one of the VERY few New Japan guys that had some awesome tag matches after the 1980's.

I think Chono is properly rated. He's very highly esteemed and not because of his ring work, which is pretty spot on. But you might be right in terms of how he is perceived today by newer fans, I'm not even sure he's on their radar...though the same could be said about Hash.

Idk I've seen a lot more Hashimoto matches that just completely fall apart, as compared to the Mutoh matches that just go nowhere and are boring as shyt.

 

[Apex]

They had an NXT style match in 1992

how did i never hear about Tsuyoshi Kikuchi before this

 

[stro]

Jumbo's treatment of Kikuchi during the Misawa feud is some of the rudest shyt I've ever seen. Makes sense that Kikuchi is borderline retarded these days. I swear Jumbo broke Kikuchi's jaw at least twice in every single 6 man tag during that feud

 

[Scottie Drippin]

The Muta/Mutoh slander

Go watch the matches. Your boys ain't out here lying to you

You might remember all the charisma and fun 10-12 minute matches on WCW Worldwide. But what you'll find is 35 minutes of him working holds with Nakanishi

 

[Scottie Drippin]

There's a reason WON named him Most Improved Wrestler...


...in 2001

And even that was just a gross over-reaction to him rocking a baldy and doing the Shining Wizard for the first time.

 

[3Rivers]

You might remember all the charisma and fun 10-12 minute matches on WCW Worldwide. But what you'll find is 35 minutes of him working holds with Nakanishi

That was just Muta giving Nakanishi time to digest. You dont find that type of veteran leadership in todays locker rooms

 

[Toe Jay Simpson]

There's a reason WON named him Most Improved Wrestler...


...in 2001

And even that was just a gross over-reaction to him rocking a baldy and doing the Shining Wizard for the first time.

Think about how far left field the business has gone to where kicking someone in the face is no longer considered a potential 3 count