JoogJoint

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Agree with this here.

I was a supporter of Warren for YEARS (and still do support her) before she even became a politician. I read The Two-Income Trap back in 2006 and would always tune in whenever she popped up on C-Span, PBS, or CNN to hear her takes on Wall Street, the debt crisis, and the financial institutions. I was heavy in debt at the time, still dealing with student loans, and her analysis of how these problems were crippling people of my generation were key in further shaping my outlook on the economic and power implications of consumer debt at the time along with people like Anya Kamenetz, James Scurlock, and David Cay Johnston. And I was thrilled when she won her Senate seat and had even hoped she would run for Pres in 2016.

All that being said, she ain't Bernie Sanders. They are not two sides of the same coin. Bernie's platform, unequivocal zeal for M4A, aims of drastically shifting the power dynamics on a societal level, his criminal justice reform proposals, far outweigh any other candidate in this race IMO.

He got my vote in 2016 and he'll get it again in 2020. And saying this is NOT a personal attack on Warren. I obviously can't speak for everybody, but I personally find it absurd as a Bernie supporter to be smeared in such a way when I probably have been following Elizabeth Warren's writings and analysis longer than some of her online supporters were even old enough to vote.

People don't seem to understand this.
 

FAH1223

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@mastermind @2Quik4UHoes you see Mark Plotkin died? Someone shared this on my timeline

Flashback :wow:
Clinton has to watch out for Warren
Clinton has to watch out for Warren
BY MARK PLOTKIN - 05/15/15 07:30 AM EDT
warrenclinton_1.jpg

© Greg Nash/Getty Images
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) says she won't run for president. Many observers speculate the now-senior senator from Massachusetts is either biding her time or is waiting for an honest-to-goodness serious draft. For someone who was just elected to the Senate in 2012, the she has become a major name and force in the Democratic Party.


The presumptive front-runner for the Democratic Party nomination, Hillary Clinton, has already adopted Warren's language about the American political system being "rigged" in favor of the wealthy and powerful. She went even further, in what could have been Warren herself talking, and proclaimed in her announcement speech "that the cards were stacked" against the average citizen.

Clinton in no way wants Warren in the race. She will do everything to make sure that does not happen. She has already sent Warren a few bouquets by repeatedly mentioning her in the most favorable of ways. Singing her praises will not stop. Clinton's fears of Warren are real and substantial.

First, Warren has a passionate following. Her anti-Wall Street and big bank rhetoric directly appeals to the liberal progressive populist wing of the Democratic Party. They are noisy and vote in great numbers in the nominating process.

Second, Warren can raise big bucks. Not to the same degree as Clinton, but don't underestimate her potential in this department. For her Senate race three years ago, this first-time candidate raised $42 million. Quite impressive for a mere law professor.

Warren's greatest asset and strength is in every statement and appearance she presents herself as a "fighter" for the consumer. The "consumer" is every one of us. She also speaks in English. Not pol-speak. No euphemisms or "on this hand and on the other hand." Her pronouncements are distinguished by their clarity. For instance: "Working families have been getting slammed." Or even more direct: the political system is "protecting those who have made it." People understand and identify with what she is saying. And best of all for her, they agree with what she is saying.

If Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is not their cup of tea, Warren stands for the same things, but seems more acceptable and electable. Her most recent victory was on the president's attempt to move his bill on fast-track trade authority. President Obama was stopped by his own party. Only one Democratic senator, Tom Carper of Delaware, voted with him on Tuesday.

Warren, with the powerful assist of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), proved that not only is she vocal but, much more important, she is effective in getting things done. The president complained in an interview recently that, "The truth of the matter is that Elizabeth is, you know, a politician like everybody else." This was a petty and personal attack. And the use of her first name rather than her full name or "Sen. Warren" is pretty alarming and smacks of being patronizing and, as Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) said, "disrespectful."

One other point on Obama's effort to pass the trade bill. The reason almost everyone abandoned him in his own party — even pro-trade senators like Ron Wyden (Ore.) and Chris c00ns (Del.) — is that Obama has the reputation of only reaching out and contacting members of his own party only when he needs them. He has never tried to forge any real friendships. He doesn't seek to even get to know them in any meaningful way. After seven years, the Democratic senators have had enough. They don't seem to have any affection for him and don't mind embarrassing — even humiliating — him.

Elizabeth Warren is the champion of the average Joe. That's one powerful asset and she very well might decide not to sit it out in 2016.

Plotkin is a political analyst, a contributor to the BBC on American politics and a columnist for The Georgetowner.
 

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King Kreole

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I know the LM issue has been raised before. It may have been on The Majority Report and not his own show. The only example I can think of at the moment on his own show was when Emma was on last week and they juxtaposed Bernie's votes/support of bills or businesses at odds with his politics in the same vein as Liz and Raytheon.
Yeah, I asked because I saw that episode and side-eyed the hell out of him when he tried to downplay Bernie's actions on that front because it is inconvenient to his narrative that Bernie and Liz are, to their core, ideologically different, if not incompatible.
 

King Kreole

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How big of percentage of the electorate do you think the Bernie or Bust crowd really is? And also expanding the ACA with a public option doesn't make sense because the expansion part is basically just medicaid. Which means that either the salary threshold is moved higher or the public option is auto enrolled with some kind allowance of unions and companies to stay on private. Either way that is tremendously better than the current situation. But M4A removes that confusion, cost less for the majority, and doesn't let southern states continue to keep their citizens from health care access at the whims of their election choices.
Yeah, this is all true, which is why I support M4A. But I also know that there are political realities to deal with that render the quibbles people have with Warren's support for M4A moot. M4A will not be obtainable regardless of who is in the white house. Expanding ACA to include a public option probably WILL be on the table, and I don't believe Bernie or Liz should be excoriated for taking it after pushing for M4A and getting pushed back. I'm concerned that a lot of the Bernie extremists don't understand this, and will either turn on Bernie for not magically making M4A materialize on his own, or they do understand this and are being disingenuous with their attacks on Warren.
 
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