2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[storyteller]

Expanding your plan and fleshing it out is flip-flopping?

Her health care position has always been M4A. No candidate had a funding plan, she was the first one to provide one. She consistently said she wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it, and that's exactly what her plan does. She said upfront she would be coming out with a transition plan and did. She never said she would introduce Bernie's M4A bill in the first week of her presidency, she said she would get to full, single-payer, universal healthcare in 4 years, and that's what her transition plan does. Again, Liz's mistake is in trying to court voters who will see this as flip-flopping instead of filling in crucial missing gaps and contending with reality instead of fantasy. The fantasy voters are with Bernie (not saying that all Bernie voters are fantastical), they're not going to anyone else. Her campaign mistake was not forging her own M4A path and attaching herself to him.

She didn't fill crucial gaps, she just chose different approaches. Bernie had a white paper of tax approaches to funding M4A in 2016 (where he introduced his wealth tax for example) and it included how much those ideas were intended to generate. The difference here is that Warren chose a different path altogether and one that we can absolutely debate about being better or worse...but it's not filling in a gap. It's just different.

Same with the transition. Bernie's plan reduces the age to qualify for Medicare gradually over a 4 year track. Warren goes with a stop gap Public Option and then attempting to implement the full single payer plan.

Neither of those fill in blanks. They provide alternative routes to the end goal. Warren heads are free to prefer her approach, I think it's flawed. I'm not about to say you're living in a fantasy land for supporting it though. I just don't think it'd work out and could set Single Payer up with a bigger obstacle after Republicans spend a cycle claiming that just a Public Option is government run amok. They'd have seeded doubt in further expansions and any hiccups in the PO rollout would lend itself to their next round of attacks.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

CNN were doing Warren puff pieces? When?

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/02/opinions/elizabeth-warren-campaign-axelrod/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/&rm=1

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/28/politics/john-legend-chrissy-teigen-support-elizabeth-warren/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

Warren gives M4A, then she takes it back.

She's such an Indian-giver.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

 

[Atlrocafella]

@Warren Moon you said it correctly the first time. They just don’t like Biden for no real reason.

 

[wire28]

yes! #ButtiBoys got some splaining to do

 

[Atlrocafella]

all this nonsense stops in the South. Feelings will be hurt, dreams will be bursted, but we tried to tell ya

#BidenBoyz2020

 

[afterlife2009]

Spoiler

 

[A.R.$]

I am sympathetic to this point of view. I think it's a legitimate thing to discuss or critique Liz for. But the idea that she's abandoned M4A or is some disastrous shill is fukking ridiculous. Nothing in her transition plan warrants the response she's gotten from the Bernie left, and it's blatantly obvious that this is no longer about the actual plans or objective facts. It's getting close to game time, Bernie isn’t dominating, and she's a convenient excuse for that.


lol maybe. I think Liz has made some bad moves. Her Deval Patrick comments were terrible, the worst thing I’ve seen out of her campaign. Her non responsiveness to global events is discouraging. Right now, the gap between her and Bernie is closer than its ever been for me. I’m just sick of the dumbass, bad faith critiques she keeps getting from the Bernie left. It sucks and doesn’t indicate they're serious about creating real, systemic change.

This has been my problem. I have no problem criticizing Liz . She has some legit weaknesses that I have commented on before. But I have been taken aback with the amount of bad faith arguments against her. I expected this from the mainstream media. But the online left have been just as bad if not worse than the mainstream media with their coverage of Warren campaign. I had to stop watching The Majority Report, TYT (except when Cenk is there), Secular Talk, and a bunch of other online shows because of how bad they have gotten. They have lost almost all objectively and they treat Bernie as a God. And I like Bernie, but it has gotten too crazy.

 

[A.R.$]

all this nonsense stops in the South. Feelings will be hurt, dreams will be bursted, but we tried to tell ya

#BidenBoyz2020

I really dislike Biden. I think he would be a terrible nominee, and even if he get elected I think he would be a bad president. However, I must admit that if things don’t change in the next two months Biden is most likely going to win the nomination. I just hope he doesn’t Hillary it up in the general.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I really dislike Biden. I think he would be a terrible nominee, and even if he get elected I think he would be a bad president. However, I must admit that if things don’t change in the next two months Biden is most likely going to win the nomination. I just hope he doesn’t Hillary it up in the general.

heres the thing...2024 needs to be locked down too. Biden literally will be too old.

 

[King Kreole]

She didn't fill crucial gaps, she just chose different approaches. Bernie had a white paper of tax approaches to funding M4A in 2016 (where he introduced his wealth tax for example) and it included how much those ideas were intended to generate. The difference here is that Warren chose a different path altogether and one that we can absolutely debate about being better or worse...but it's not filling in a gap. It's just different.

A menu is not a meal. Bernie has put out a list of different potential options to fund M4A but he hasn't put out a funding plan. He hasn't committed. He himself admitted this after Liz put out her plan and he said he doesn't feel like he has to release a financing plan.

Same with the transition. Bernie's plan reduces the age to qualify for Medicare gradually over a 4 year track. Warren goes with a stop gap Public Option and then attempting to implement the full single payer plan.

The gap Liz is filling here is a reality gap. Bernie damn well knows his M4A bill isn't being passed in the first week of his Presidency. At best, it's a symbolic gesture. Meanwhile, thousands will die unnecessarily, and millions will have no healthcare. Liz's point is that she isn't waiting for the "revolution" to expand healthcare as much as possible to millions on the road to M4A. Now, we can discuss the feasibility of passing Liz's transition plan, which can be done through reconciliation, vs passing Bernie's M4A bill, which will require a fillibuster-proof majority to vote for it, in the first 2 years of his presidency. To me, only one of those options is operating in an environment of reality.

Neither of those fill in blanks. They provide alternative routes to the end goal. Warren heads are free to prefer her approach, I think it's flawed. I'm not about to say you're living in a fantasy land for supporting it though. I just don't think it'd work out and could set Single Payer up with a bigger obstacle after Republicans spend a cycle claiming that just a Public Option is government run amok. They'd have seeded doubt in further expansions and any hiccups in the PO rollout would lend itself to their next round of attacks.

If we're saying the government will inevitably botch healthcare expansion to the point that a public option will be disastrous and give Republicans talking points, what the hell are we fighting for M4A for?

 

[A.R.$]

heres the thing...2024 needs to be locked down too. Biden literally will be too old.

Yup,
The Vice President pick would be even more important that usual. This applies to Bernie as well.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yup,
The Vice President pick would be even more important that usual. This applies to Bernie as well.

doubly. Bernie is older than Biden.

 

[Warren Moon]

heres the thing...2024 needs to be locked down too. Biden literally will be too old.

You said 2024?

Y’all think Biden’s foothold with the black community in the south doesn’t come with conditions? We got this. #blackprogressives