Bernie has literally done less homework on M4A implementation than Warren has done in the last 6 months.
2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races
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AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Again, changing over and over again is flip flopping. When has that ever been looked at as good? If she had a position and stuck to it despite criticism she would be in a better spot right now. But it seems Liz cannot live with criticism, she keeps changing to please everybody and you see it winds up not pleasing anyone.She was getting heaps of shyt when her position was literally just "I'm with Bernie", so I'm not sure how that tracks. Back then the goalposts were that she refused to say she would raise taxes and was somehow sabotaging the movement by doing so. Then she doubles down on full M4A, and does it without raising taxes on the working class, and the goalposts shifted to a head tax being disastrous and she's sabotaging the movement. Now she releases a transition plan that gets to M4A in 3 years and the goalposts shifted to a 2-step transition is disastrous because it's inevitable that Republicans will win the 2022 midterms and full M4A can somehow be passed in the current political climate within 2 years.
She is messing up; ideally you stake out a position and stick to it despite any critiques, second to that you change once and stick to that despite criticism. But to continually change not only makes you wrong on the issue @ hand but can be pointed @ as an overall character issue.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Yeah he knows where he stands and doesn't need to do homework while the actual test is going on (the primary).
Yeah, and thats why he's capped in the polls.
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
Yeah. We know.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Expanding your plan and fleshing it out is flip-flopping?
Her health care position has always been M4A. No candidate had a funding plan, she was the first one to provide one. She consistently said she wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it, and that's exactly what her plan does. She said upfront she would be coming out with a transition plan and did. She never said she would introduce Bernie's M4A bill in the first week of her presidency, she said she would get to full, single-payer, universal healthcare in 4 years, and that's what her transition plan does. Again, Liz's mistake is in trying to court voters who will see this as flip-flopping instead of filling in crucial missing gaps and contending with reality instead of fantasy. The fantasy voters are with Bernie (not saying that all Bernie voters are fantastical), they're not going to anyone else. Her campaign mistake was not forging her own M4A path and attaching herself to him.
The same scrutiny applied to her should also be applied to sanders record and actions. Unless you think he does nothing wrong.No one is saying that tho. I still like Elizabeth Warren but I can also acknowledge when she is messing up in her campaign. How about you?
basically. I’d be able to tolerate it more if they just admitted they were unabashed cultists. At least then we could have a decent conversation with that in hand. When you feign impartiality and exude faux ideological superiority we can’t even talk frfr.
afterlife2009
Superstar
Biden sweeping the south and Pete going out sad lmao. Yang is above Harris lmao
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Sure, I have said he needs to stop being so nice to his opponents. That's a criticism of how he is campaigning. I'm not acting like he never makes mistakes.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
'Fleshing it out' means doing something else first and then doing M4A? It also means passing other historically impossible legislation first before paying for M4A?Expanding your plan and fleshing it out is flip-flopping?
Her health care position has always been M4A. No candidate had a funding plan, she was the first one to provide one. She consistently said she wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it, and that's exactly what her plan does. She said upfront she would be coming out with a transition plan and did. She never said she would introduce Bernie's M4A bill in the first week of her presidency, she said she would get to full, single-payer, universal healthcare in 4 years, and that's what her transition plan does. Again, Liz's mistake is in trying to court voters who will see this as flip-flopping instead of filling in crucial missing gaps and contending with reality instead of fantasy. The fantasy voters are with Bernie (not saying that all Bernie voters are fantastical), they're not going to anyone else. Her campaign mistake was not forging her own M4A path and attaching herself to him.
And yeah, leave 'reality' in the governing part of the job where it belongs. Mentioning it now is dumb and undercuts your ultimate position unless that's not really your position at all. It seems you have a hard time critiquing Liz while claiming others don't criticize Bernie. I guess you're upset you are in the smaller cult? lol
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
the bolded doesn't really mean the average voter...and quite honestly, he's not really the person to speak on it as he's likely involved with the highest information voters and or course actual politicians. lobbyists, media and other washington insiders
you're overcomplicating it, a lot of people don't like hilary for optics/personality issues as opposed to obama. there isn't some deeper digging into policies (staffing...which c'mon, this is a political elite thing, the average voter cant pinpoint a policy issue let alone staffs
) and whatnot. i really don't know what segment of voters yall are speaking for/or, but you talk to regular ass people and it's all a personality thing
Hood Critic
The Power Circle
Sigh
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
maybe pete should hit the dougie on his douglass plan
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
It's not doing something else, it's expanding M4A coverage to millions of people through the only tools available. There is no way to do M4A immediately. Plus, her first steps can be passed through budget reconciliation, while full M4A cannot, which makes her plan far more legislatively possible than M4A passing in the first week of 2021. Public option almost passed during the Obamacare fight, I see no reason to believe the country or Congress has moved dramatically rightward on healthcare since that time.
I am sympathetic to this point of view. I think it's a legitimate thing to discuss or critique Liz for. But the idea that she's abandoned M4A or is some disastrous shill is fukking ridiculous. Nothing in her transition plan warrants the response she's gotten from the Bernie left, and it's blatantly obvious that this is no longer about the actual plans or objective facts. It's getting close to game time, Bernie isn’t dominating, and she's a convenient excuse for that.
lol maybe. I think Liz has made some bad moves. Her Deval Patrick comments were terrible, the worst thing I’ve seen out of her campaign. Her non responsiveness to global events is discouraging. Right now, the gap between her and Bernie is closer than its ever been for me. I’m just sick of the dumbass, bad faith critiques she keeps getting from the Bernie left. It sucks and doesn’t indicate they're serious about creating real, systemic change.