2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[King Kreole]

This is a point that a lot of people on the progressive left are neglecting. I feel like they are setting Bernie up for failure if he does win the presidency. A lot of Sanders supports seem to think that we are guaranteed to get M4A if he is elected. That is most likely not going to happen. Congress is currently not progressive enough to get this passed. Like the tweet stated it is going to take a few more election cycles to get this done. I don’t see M4A getting passed anytime before 2025. If this is the case a lot of his supporters are going to be super disappointed if he signs a healthcare bill that is not M4A, even if it has a strong public option.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced a lot of these supporters are just cult of Bernie hero worshippers, so I don't think they would actually be disappointed in anything he does. Like, they think the revolution is Bernie Sanders. Anyone who has a different approach to getting to the same goal is an apostate. I mean, look at what they're doing to Congresswoman Jayapal and Ady Barkan right now.





I still hold out hope that Bernie's sheer numbers indicate that there is a sizable silent majority of non-obsessive followers who just believe in his message and movement. These people aren't on twitter every day calling Elizabeth Warren a treacherous crypto-neoliberal wolf in sheep's clothing for going with a head tax over a payroll tax to fund 1/3 of the M4A plan that only she and Bernie are supporting and advocating using her executive powers to unilaterally start the transition to M4A without having to wait on "the revolution".

 

[King Kreole]

Bernie has stated he's going to use the overpowered executive branch the Republicans created to make this shyt happen without needing congress.

 

[FAH1223]

Bernie has stated he's going to use the overpowered executive branch the Republicans created to make this shyt happen without needing congress.

HOW?

"The haters" What happened to dreaming big, fighting hard and big structural change lmao? Sanders has conceded that as well from day one, he's just had a theory about how to build the power base to do it, Warren doesn't seem to think that's even possible.

I still remember Warren stans saying this summer that she’s more serious about M4A because she’ll abolish the filibuster to pass it but now she's talking about budget reconciliation. People are upset at her riding the M4A wave by saying she's with Bernie and then clearly moving elsewhere. If Bernie pulled this, his campaign would be dead and rightfully so.

The problem isn't the transition plan, it's splitting it up into two bills. Bernie also has a public option in his transition plan but he's not giving himself the out of saying "this is good enough!" and waiting for 3 years.

Warren is banking on passing two major health care bills, the first of which (the public option) has no grassroots movement to demand it. The second (single payer) comes after the mid-term election where she may lose Congress again and no longer be accountable for your own promises? I'm tired of that game.

Bernie's Medicare for All bill and whatever Warren is proposing both stand exactly the same chance of passing through congress -- the difference is the activist energy behind M4A and it's not a compromising position.

Even the data boy sees this for what it is.

Walker sees this

 

[afterlife2009]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced a lot of these supporters are just cult of Bernie hero worshippers, so I don't think they would actually be disappointed in anything he does. Like, they think the revolution is Bernie Sanders. Anyone who has a different approach to getting to the same goal is an apostate. I mean, look at what they're doing to Congresswoman Jayapal and Ady Barkan right now.

I still hold out hope that Bernie's sheer numbers indicate that there is a sizable silent majority of non-obsessive followers who just believe in his message and movement. These people aren't on twitter every day calling Elizabeth Warren a treacherous crypto-neoliberal wolf in sheep's clothing for going with a head tax over a payroll tax to fund 1/3 of the M4A plan that only she and Bernie are supporting and advocating using her executive powers to unilaterally start the transition to M4A without having to wait on "the revolution".

Why are you acting like people are getting murdered. They're replying to tweets. 45k people die a year due to not having health care. We have one shot at this and it needs to be done right. A lot of the replies with Ady are "congrats on the kid but here's where I disagree". Are those two the end be all of the M4A discussion? Is no one allowed to have a different opinion.

People are pointing out to Pramila about how could you possibly support splitting Medicare for all and a 3 year public option into two separate bills? Out of all people she should know how difficult either would be to pass, but both....

It's funny how you guys keep shytting on Bernie people who want free health care and say it's a cult but if Bernie pulled this his campaign would be over because his supporters actually care about consistent policy positions. It's interesting the Warren cult doesn't seem to mind about this? Bernie got a lot rightful heat from his supporters for his Israel/Palestine tweet yesterday


Ady is a hero but the person that runs Ady's foundation and Twitter was hating on M4A in 2015 so I have my misgivings

 

[FAH1223]

I just don't see 51 votes happening brehs...

 

[King Kreole]

Why are you acting like people are getting murdered. They're replying to tweets. 45k people die a year due to not having health care. We have one shot at this and it needs to be done right. A lot of the replies with Ady are "congrats on the kid but here's where I disagree". Are those two the end be all of the M4A discussion? Is no one allowed to have a different opinion.

People are pointing out to Pramila about how could you possibly support splitting Medicare for all and a 3 year public option into two separate bills? Out of all people she should know how difficult either would be to pass, but both....

It's funny how you guys keep shytting on Bernie people who want free health care and say it's a cult but if Bernie pulled this his campaign would be over because his supporters actually care about consistent policy positions. It's interesting the Warren cult doesn't seem to mind about this? Bernie got a lot rightful heat from his supporters for his Israel/Palestine tweet yesterday


Ady is a hero but the person that runs Ady's foundation and Twitter was hating on M4A in 2015 so I have my misgivings

No one is getting murdered, there's just a faction that's trying to excommunicate Jayapal and Ady from the progressive/M4A movement because they committed the cardinal sin of praising one of the two progressive candidates who support M4A. It's an incredibly unhealthy tendency for the left to eat its own and portends poorly for the actual movement building that will be needed to enact any of these progressive measures. It's a concerning trend that so many people are engaging in magical thinking. Hell, even Liz's plans are on the fringe of what is currently possible. Kneecapping her is some cutting your nose to spite your face shyt. There are legitimate arguments to be had about optimal strategies and disagreements can be had, but the rancor I'm seeing coming from a lot of Bernie's loudest supporters is fukking distressing.

Pramila of all people knows how legislatively difficult this fight will be, so of course she would support a plan that eases the full transition by taking large steps towards full universal M4A coverage via executive actions as opposed to throwing up a week 1 vote and yelling "revolution!" when it inevitably fails. A lot of people are either misinformed or being purposefully obtuse by saying Liz is pushing M4A off by 3 years. She's advocating starting immediately and finishing it off in year 3. The year 3 bill will not need to be nearly as large, and as such easier to swallow legislatively, because millions of more people will already be on full M4A coverage already.

 

[King Kreole]

I just don't see 51 votes happening brehs...

51 votes for full M4A is dead impossible, but 51 votes for "Obamacare/Medicare expansion" (aka public option) with the context of squishes having full M4A as a "well at least I didn't vote for that" is at the edge of possibility I think.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

the Warren cult

they're nerds. they're convinced they're smarter than everybody.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced a lot of these supporters are just cult of Bernie hero worshippers, so I don't think they would actually be disappointed in anything he does. Like, they think the revolution is Bernie Sanders. Anyone who has a different approach to getting to the same goal is an apostate. I mean, look at what they're doing to Congresswoman Jayapal and Ady Barkan right now.





I still hold out hope that Bernie's sheer numbers indicate that there is a sizable silent majority of non-obsessive followers who just believe in his message and movement. These people aren't on twitter every day calling Elizabeth Warren a treacherous crypto-neoliberal wolf in sheep's clothing for going with a head tax over a payroll tax to fund 1/3 of the M4A plan that only she and Bernie are supporting and advocating using her executive powers to unilaterally start the transition to M4A without having to wait on "the revolution".

It’s a wrap for Liz. She ain’t the one.





















Progressive bonafides crushed. Yall’s campaign might as well work on getting back Booty judge voters.

Meanwhile...

 

[afterlife2009]

No one is getting murdered, there's just a faction that's trying to excommunicate Jayapal and Ady from the progressive/M4A movement because they committed the cardinal sin of praising one of the two progressive candidates who support M4A. It's an incredibly unhealthy tendency for the left to eat its own and portends poorly for the actual movement building that will be needed to enact any of these progressive measures. It's a concerning trend that so many people are engaging in magical thinking. Hell, even Liz's plans are on the fringe of what is currently possible. Kneecapping her is some cutting your nose to spite your face shyt. There are legitimate arguments to be had about optimal strategies and disagreements can be had, but the rancor I'm seeing coming from a lot of Bernie's loudest supporters is fukking distressing.

Pramila of all people knows how legislatively difficult this fight will be, so of course she would support a plan that eases the full transition by taking large steps towards full universal M4A coverage via executive actions as opposed to throwing up a week 1 vote and yelling "revolution!" when it inevitably fails. A lot of people are either misinformed or being purposefully obtuse by saying Liz is pushing M4A off by 3 years. She's advocating starting immediately and finishing it off in year 3. The year 3 bill will not need to be nearly as large, and as such easier to swallow legislatively, because millions of more people will already be on full M4A coverage already.

I get what you're saying but what's distressing is saying 45k people dying from health care, not twitter replies. Lack of health care coverage is personal and has killed people so you can expect people to get emotional about it. There’s zero logic for Pramila to criticize one of two supporters of her bill unless she's working as a closet surrogate.

Ady is obviously a hero and it’s possible to disagree with his strategic logic as much as we all do Warren’s. Most people are kindly disagreeing in there and not excommunicating. However halfway through Pramila's Twitter thread was wack imo

Here's the problem -- Pramila's entire Twitter thread gets nuked by asking this one simple question, "How is proposing to start to fight at the end of Warren's third year committing to a 4-year transition?"

Pramila says, "the senate transition plan reaffirms her commitment to the four-year transition plan outlined in the Senate."

It doesn't reaffirm it lmao why is she lying. The S.1129 doesn’t involve passing two separate pieces of legislation starting with a public option

That's why people are going at her in the replies but pointing this out makes me a cult member Warren can't say "I'm with Bernie! I'm with Bernie!" for months on end then switch up like this without pushback. Oh well this doesn't matter anyway cause at the moment Biden is likely to sweep the south

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

jesus christ @ the spamming of the same 3-4 twitter talking heads in this thread

 

[wire28]

jesus christ @ the spamming of the same 3-4 twitter talking heads in this thread

impeachment thread is much better right now. this thread has been effectively destroyed as of late

 

[FAH1223]

It’s a wrap for Liz. She ain’t the one.





















Progressive bonafides crushed. Yall’s campaign might as well work on getting back Booty judge voters.

Meanwhile...

The issue is the Senate

Manchin and Sinema ain’t voting for any of this stuff and they ain’t up till 2024

 

[King Kreole]

Here's the problem -- Pramila's entire Twitter thread gets nuked by asking this one simple question, "How is proposing to start to fight at the end of Warren's third year committing to a 4-year transition?"

Also Pramila says, "the senate transition plan reaffirms her commitment to the four-year transition plan outlined in the Senate."

It doesn't reaffirm it lmao why is she lying. The S.1129 doesn’t involve passing two separate pieces of legislation starting with a public option

She's not proposing to start to fight at the end of her third year, she's, in fact, proposing the exact opposite, and is the only M4A advocate in the race to propose actually doing practical shyt immediately to get M4A passed. What her transition plan entails is an immediate expansion of health care to get millions of people hooked on effective government-provided health care, and then finish off the remaining uncovered people in year 3. Your framing only makes sense if you care more about Bernie's bill (and his reputation and political image) than you do about actual single-payer universal healthcare. Liz essentially created a backdoor way to get millions of people on to M4A by avoiding a quixotic quest to flip 60 Senators. In both her and Bernie's plan, everyone is on M4A in 4 years, which is what Jayapal is talking about.

Oh well this doesn't matter anyway cause at the moment Biden is likely to sweep the south

Now this I agree with lol...

 

[A.R.$]

"The haters" Us and Harry Reid already told you this was gonna happen months ago

What happened to dreaming big, fighting hard and big structural change lmao? Sanders has conceded that as well from day one, he's just had a theory about how to build the power base to do it, Warren doesn't seem to think that's even possible.

I still remember Warren stans saying this summer that she’s more serious about M4A because she’ll abolish the filibuster to pass it but now she's talking about budget reconciliation. People are upset at her riding the M4A wave by saying she's with Bernie and then clearly moving elsewhere. If Bernie pulled this, his campaign would be dead and rightfully so.

The problem isn't the transition plan, it's splitting it up into two bills. Bernie also has a public option in his transition plan but he's not giving himself the out of saying "this is good enough!" and waiting for 3 years. Warren is banking on passing two major health care bills, the first of which (the public option) has no grassroots movement to demand it. The second (single payer) comes after the mid-term election where she may lose Congress again and no longer be accountable for your own promises? I'm tired of that game.

Bernie's Medicare for All bill and whatever Warren is proposing both stand exactly the same chance of passing through congress -- the difference is the activist energy behind M4A and it's not a compromising position.

Even the data boy sees this for what it is.

A few points.
1. Let me start of by saying what I have said before. Bernie is better than Warren when it comes to healthcare. I think Warren is good on healthcare but not great. I’m supporting Warren for her understanding of financial policy, considering I think we are going to have another financial crisis in the near future with all the deregulation that is going on. I also liked Warren language on Black issues better, and her historical redlining correction plan. I will say Bernie has been doing better with Black issues lately after initially stumbling imo.

2. Warren is still dreaming big. You might not like the way she is proposing it but it is still M4A. She is the only candidate besides Bernie that is supporting M4A. And if we going to play that game Pramila Jayapal proposal is better than Bernie’s bill, and has a shorter implementation. Supporting M4A is dreaming big period.

3. I’m not worried about transition, because the specifics of the plan is going to change once Congress start to seriously debate it. What is more important to me is that the general public support the idea of M4A. Because it polls differently depending how the question is asked. If Warren is President that means Bernie, and Jayapal would still be the leaders in congress pushing M4A ( unless they get cabinet positions). I trust that they would get the best healthcare bill possible passed, and that Warren wouldn’t veto it.
Also I think her plan reflects the most likely scenario. I think even if Bernie is elected M4A is not passing initially. I think you will be forced to pass a public option, then come back with a single payer bill later. I will say that she didn’t need to explicitly state this. But overall she is proving that M4A can be paid for. For me that it is more important than any of the other minor disagreements with her proposal.

4. Bernie Supporters hate Nate Sliver. Why quote someone that you say is not credible. Let me guess, his opinion is valid now that he is critical of Warren. I hope you quote him in the same way the next time he is critical of Bernie.