2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[FAH1223]

The goal is to have a brokered convention so superdelegates can decide to not let Bernie or Liz get the nomination

I’m convinced

Hillary already knows who the likely nominee will be

 

[the next guy]

Elizabeth Warren still one of the few candidates that find it important to reach out to the black base during their campaign. Biden and Bernie ain't...

Biden has lots of black people

 

[Pressure]

Niccas has all the smoke when Hillary said she carries hot sauce in her bag, I wonder if the LIZ supporters are keeping that same energy

Black women showed up for Clinton.

Only people I heard complaining were angry nikkas who don't vote and leftists complaining about identity politics.

Spoiler

I just put hot sauce on my breakfast sandwich.

 

[Pressure]

Hillary already knows who the likely nominee will be

How much has the primary data changed since 2016?

 

[StatUS]

You got my point

Well to me it's quite weird to base my view of this turn by early polling which historically doesn't matter until like December.

I base it more on people having differences of opinion on candidates but exercising discourse disingenuously like it's all the other stan wars on this site. Same playbook different topic.

 

[storyteller]

This thread turned into a disingenuous stan fest like everywhere else. Finally two high end progressive candidates and people are treating this like PlayStation vs Xbox

What kills me is that you can literally catch Bernie saying "yes billionaires should fear Warren too, but my approach is different" just yesterday. No attack or swipe, just an admission that he's got a different strategy. I think a lot of the beef is basically a rehash of Clinton vs Bernie from 2016. That's why I keep trying to remind team Bern that Warren is still a win for us, she'll implement a huge chunk of what Bernie pushed for in 2016. She's low key brought a bunch of people left who woulda gone full Chicken Little if Bernie had won in 2016. The Overton window is shifting thanks to her, I'll take that and run. It's better long term for progressives regardless of who wins this cycle.

 

[StatUS]

Niccas has all the smoke when Hillary said she carries hot sauce in her bag, I wonder if the LIZ supporters are keeping that same energy

That hot sauce shyt was stupid because 1. She really does like that shyt. And 2. Hot sauce ain't some racial condiment. White people eat sauce just as much as anyone. She did some bullshyt during 2016 but I don't get how that one blew up so much.

 

[Pressure]

Well to me it's quite weird to base my view of this turn by early polling which historically doesn't matter until like December.

I base it more on people having differences of opinion on candidates but exercising discourse disingenuously like it's all the other stan wars on this site. Same playbook different topic.

Unfortunately any real criticisms are pushed aside as someone being merely partisan.

For example, Bernie Sanders recently pushed out his plan for racial justice.

I find it to a good starting point, but honestly it's not much different than what we saw from Clinton or any other general large bullet point initiatives about how a voter is going to help black people. Most are just a rising tide will lift all boats type rhetoric.

But even there, I think there's room for detailing how you plan to implement these changes. Let's start with the following:

• End, once and for all, the destructive “war on drugs,” including legalizing marijuana.
• Eliminate private prisons and detention centers.
• End cash bail.
• Abolish the death penalty.
• End all mandatory minimums and reinstate the federal system of parole.
• Seriously reform civil asset forfeitures.

Bring about major police department reform.

• How do you intend to end the war on drugs? What specifics changes will you make and what affects will they have? What's the intended goal?
• How do you plan to do this? Will you merely defund? What prisoners will you commute sentences for to lower the overall prison population to make this possible and to limit overcrowding in federal prisons? How will you address state private prisons?
• Will cash bail be replaced by another system? What will that system look like? If you can't eliminate cash bail what reform will you make so that people aren't given trumped up charges that effectively presumes their guilt beforehand by punishing them with imprisonment because they can't afford bail?
• When mandatory minimums are lifted will the changes be retroactive? If so, for who?
• What do you mean by seriously reform civil asset forfeiture?

 

[StatUS]

What kills me is that you can literally catch Bernie saying "yes billionaires should fear Warren too, but my approach is different" just yesterday. No attack or swipe, just an admission that he's got a different strategy. I think a lot of the beef is basically a rehash of Clinton vs Bernie from 2016. That's why I keep trying to remind team Bern that Warren is still a win for us, she'll implement a huge chunk of what Bernie pushed for in 2016. She's low key brought a bunch of people left who woulda gone full Chicken Little if Bernie had won in 2016. The Overton window is shifting thanks to her, I'll take that and run. It's better long term for progressives regardless of who wins this cycle.

We're good either way. I support Bernie more because of foreign policy reasons. But the fact that people are shaking in their boots either way is great. Just gotta get rid of Biden.

 

[FAH1223]

How much has the primary data changed since 2016?

Depends. If young people vote more as they did in the midterms that changes things in a primary

If Bernie is right and his campaign investments bear fruit and you have more young and working class and non voters coming out. The game is changed a ton.

 

[afterlife2009]

 

[storyteller]

Unfortunately any real criticisms are pushed aside as someone being merely partisan.

For example, Bernie Sanders recently pushed out his plan for racial justice.

I find it to a good starting point, but honestly it's not much different than what we saw from Clinton or any other general large bullet point initiatives about how a voter is going to help black people. Most are just a rising tide will lift all boats type rhetoric.

But even there, I think there's room for detailing how you plan to implement these changes. Let's start with the following:

• How do you intend to end the war on drugs? What specifics changes will you make and what affects will they have? What's the intended goal?
• How do you plan to do this? Will you merely defund? What prisoners will you commute sentences for to lower the overall prison population to make this possible and to limit overcrowding in federal prisons? How will you address state private prisons?
  
• Will cash bail be replaced by another system? What will that system look like? If you can't eliminate cash bail what reform will you make so that people aren't given trumped up charges that effectively presumes their guilt beforehand by punishing them with imprisonment because they can't afford bail?
• When mandatory minimums are lifted will the changes be retroactive? If so, for who?
• What do you mean by seriously reform civil asset forfeiture?

Some of these questions have a bit more meat to the answers that can help flesh out the vision.

Specifics on ending the war on drugs - It's a bit scattered because he has the marijuana legalization plan which fully deschedules it and aims at putting the tax revenue predominantly into communities hit hardest by the war on drugs and to help PoC become entrepreneurs through a couple of grant programs that the revenue would go into). But expanding beyond marijuana, he's for shifting from prison sentences to non-violent drug offenders and instead pushing them into treatment programs. He also speaks on lack of beds and other resources in rehabilitative services, so expect more funding to those endeavors with the savings from cutting costs on the war on the drugs.

End Cash Bail (and replacement)- this covers it pretty well, he's piggybacking off previous proposals from the likes of Harris and Lieu.
Bernie Sanders' cash bail bill seeks to end 'modern day debtors' prisons'

- In terms of prison population questions. The marijuana legislation would expunge records and as mentioned above, non-violent drug offenders would no longer be imprisoned. I'm not sure how much he's revamped it, but Bernie had a proposal to end private prisons in his 2016 bid that you can probably get a hold of for a bit on that bit.

- Mandatory minimums being retroactive, I'm not sure about tbh.

- The details on civil asset forfeiture are light that I've seen. Basically just the "law enforcement agencies can't directly benefit from the forfeited goods and federal funding will be tied to those changes" line which sounds good but certainly needs to be fleshed out.

So you end the war of drugs by no longer imprisoning non-violent offenders. The money saved goes to things like improved rehab and adding safe injection sites which have proven effective. Reduced prison population as a result would make it easier to attack the profit motives in our prison system. That leads to ending private prisons and replacing cash bail with risk assessment focus (makes me think of catch and release with immigrants tbh, which worked pretty well and worked perfectly when coupled with a social worker program). The last two points, I haven't seen as much detail on for sure, but you can see the vision in the rest of the proposals and that gives me some confidence that there's vision behind the last bits. I'd like to see more on those myself though.

 

[Pressure]

Some of these questions have a bit more meat to the answers that can help flesh out the image.

Specifics on ending the war on drugs - It's a bit scattered because he has the marijuana legalization plan which fully deschedules it and aims at putting the tax revenue predominantly into communities hit hardest by the war on drugs and to help PoC become entrepreneurs through a couple of grant programs that the revenue would go into). But expanding beyond marijuana, he's for shifting from prison sentences to non-violent drug offenders and instead pushing them into treatment programs. He also speaks on lack of beds and other resources in rehabilitative services, so expect more funding to those endeavors with the savings from cutting costs on the war on the drugs.

End Cash Bail (and replacement)- this covers it pretty well, he's piggybacking off previous proposals from the likes of Harris and Lieu.
Bernie Sanders' cash bail bill seeks to end 'modern day debtors' prisons'

- In terms of prison population questions. The marijuana legislation would expunge records and as mentioned above, non-violent drug offenders would no longer be imprisoned. I'm not sure how much he's revamped it, but Bernie had a proposal to end private prisons in his 2016 bid that you can probably get a hold of for a bit on that bit.

- Mandatory minimums being retroactive, I'm not sure about tbh.

- The details on civil asset forfeiture are light that I've seen. Basically just the "law enforcement agencies can't directly benefit from the forfeited goods and federal funding will be tied to those changes" line which sounds good but certainly needs to be fleshed out.

So you end the war of drugs by no longer imprisoning non-violent offenders. The money saved goes to things like improved rehab and adding safe injection sites which have proven effective. Reduced prison population as a result would make it easier to attack the profit motives in our prison system. That leads to ending private prisons and replacing cash bail with risk assessment focus (makes me think of catch and release with immigrants tbh, which worked pretty well and worked perfectly when coupled with a social worker program). The last two points, I haven't seen as much detail on for sure, but you can see the vision in the rest of the proposals and that gives me some confidence that there's vision behind the last bits. I'd like to see more on those myself though.

I think we are in agreement there. Obviously when asking the questions like that I form a view of how I expect them to work together. Then there is also a bit of what I'd like to see.

I suppose my gripe which may be similar to your own is - - hey we have a great jumping off point, but I would like some more details to see how you bring this home.

Granted I'm sure a common response would be to trust that he'd make good on this and wouldn't drift drastically, but I think it helps the conversation when those details are fleshed out

For example, we just passed a prison reform package. Both were bipartisan, but we ended up with the lesser of the two.

In general, I'd like for candidates to flesh out all of their major proposals to a point where we can see the difference between what they invision and maybe even ultimately what we end up with.

 

[John Reena]

You always do this crazy shyt. Quote something I said and link it to some unrelated bullshyt.

Yes I have the iPhone and wear Nike’s, doesn’t mean I’m for sweatshops in China with child labor

Better watch out, he gonna snitch to da mods if u don’t agree with him.

 

[duncanthetall]

Cringe. MSNBC is just fukking terrible.