Good job to repair any damage to that bridge. Might got a job for Hart down the line...
2 of Amerika’s Most Wanted: The Official GOAT franchise Boss Angeles Lakers 2019-2020 season thread
- Thread starter 2Quik4UHoes
- Start date
- Status
THE MACHINE
night owl
Breh got out that Juelz toolbox and went to work with the quicknessGood job to repair any damage to that bridge. Might got a job for Hart down the line...
Need to look at them shytty Shaq jerseys and while we’re at it we need a permanent alternate Black jersey and take the black stripe out of the away jersey and take it back to the old one.
Breh got out that Juelz toolbox and went to work with the quickness
breh realized that Laker life is different
probably looking at Caruso like
thats supposed to be me
murksiderock
Superstar
December finna be lit for the Lakers:
Mavs
@Nuggets
@Jazz
@Blazers
Wolves
@Magic
@Heat
@Hawks
@Pacers
@Bucks
Nuggets
Clippers
@Blazers
Mavs
9 of the 14 games on the road. Two back-to-backs. Every single team besides the Blazers and Hawks are in the playoff picture. We're gonna learn alot about the Lakers in the early going here, and it's still only December, so I caution everybody to remember that if we see some struggling...
Worst case scenario is 7-7 to me, which would raise doubts on how strong a contender they are, and put us at somewhere between 23-10 and 24-9 heading into the new year. I think there are going to be some mismatches exploited, particularly in the backcourt and off the bench...
But personally, I think they'll do better than people think. Everybody is saying the soft early schedule is why we're 14-2, I think in December the Lakers will go 9-5 and enter January 25-8 or 26-7, with some real strong wins over good teams, and also some predictable losses to good teams. It'll be the first adverse scenarios they face this year but I think they respond to it responsibly and emerge a better team...
Can't wait!
Flex Luger
Job Is Finished
Is it me or did he get taller
Someone on reddit lakers said he's grown two inches
I think he looks 6'5
He is super young so it definitely possibleSomeone on reddit lakers said he's grown two inches
I think he looks 6'5
Dr. Narcisse
Veteran
I can tell already I'm about to be pissed at this 2 point win against the Spurs 
I already know Im going to be pissed about the 3 point win over the Pels
I might smack somebody after they beat the Wizards just by 6 later this week
I already know Im going to be pissed about the 3 point win over the Pels
I might smack somebody after they beat the Wizards just by 6 later this week
Family Lives Matter
#FLM
They saying igudola won't be brought out.
Hoping it's true to be honest
Hoping it's true to be honest
Good read on the coaching staff.
'A family approach': The Lakers are rolling and, to the...
'A family approach': The Lakers are rolling and, to the...
‘A family approach’: The Lakers are rolling and, to the surprise of many, their coaching staff is making it all work
Sam Amick 5h ago
13
Even LeBron James’ closest associates didn’t know how this latest coaching relationship might work.
After all the weirdness that led to the Lakers’ hiring of Frank Vogel during the summer, when they chased LeBron’s old coach (Tyronn Lue) to no avail and missed out on Anthony Davis’ former coach too (Monty Williams), there was a widespread sense that it could get prickly again if Vogel didn’t gain their trust early on. Especially when Jason Kidd was added to Vogel’s staff and so many around the league saw him as the head-coach-in-waiting.
Lest anyone forget, Luke Walton was berated by former Lakers executive Magic Johnson just seven games into last season as general manager Rob Pelinka stood by his side. And that was before Davis’ arrival in June made them title contenders and placed an even brighter spotlight squarely on Vogel’s head. It’s a moot point now, but a lackluster start would have inspired all sorts of uncomfortable questions about what might come next for this staff that boasts three former head coaches in Vogel, Kidd and Lionel Hollins.
Alas, here they are: Entering Monday – with the 34-year-old James looking capable of winning his fifth MVP honor, Davis fitting in beautifully on both ends of the floor and so many surrounding pieces meshing so well therein – the Lakers not only have the league’s best record (14-2) and the league’s third-best net rating (7.9) but also have a prime chance to keep it going from here. Their next three games come against lesser foes in San Antonio (6-11), New Orleans (6-10) and Washington (5-8).
Cue Vogel, 46, breathing a well-deserved sigh of relief, and not only because his Lakers are ahead of the NBA pack.
He appears to be blending well with Kidd, who is 18 months removed from his firing as Milwaukee’s head coach and more than five years removed from the shady ending to his debut head coaching season in Brooklyn that led to his Bucks tenure. But the defensive acumen that earned Vogel the job in the first place, which was such a foundational part of those Indiana Pacers teams that pushed LeBron so hard during his Miami Heat days, is making an impact in Laker Land now too.
These massive and spry Lakers are fourth in defensive rating (102.5 points allowed per 100 possessions) and first in blocks (7.6 per game, with Minnesota second at 6.7). Vogel, a former Lakers advance scout (2005-06) whose Pacers teams led the league in defensive rating twice during his six seasons there (2010-16) and were top 10 five times, is earning the respect of his new co-workers in the kind of way that couldn’t have been assumed when they all clocked in together for the first time.
“I felt that we would be extremely prepared as an organization and as a ballclub,” James, who faced Vogel’s Pacers three times in the playoffs while with the Heat (including twice in the Eastern Conference Finals), told reporters during training camp. “(Those Pacers teams) were always one of our toughest opponents when I was in Miami, when he was at the helm. They were always prepared, as well as we were as well in Miami, so I knew that for sure once Rob (Pelinka) and everyone upstairs decided to choose him to be our head coach, I knew we would be very prepared.”
By all accounts, Vogel – whose staff also includes renowned player development assistant Phil Handy – is living up to his reputation as one of the game’s most diligent and deliberate defensive gurus. Yet as Vogel is the first to tell you, LeBron’s buy-in on both ends of the floor has been as big an X-factor as you’ll find.
“Whatever the history is (between him and James), LeBron has been a leader,” Vogel told The Athletic recently of James, who is averaging 25.2 points, a league-leading 10.8 assists, 7.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals. “To me, the best leaders are the ones that follow the lead of the coach. Forgetting the history and all that, he’s been great since I’ve been here. I’ve tried to present a vision of a style of play that makes sense, that fits our personnel, and he has kind of gotten behind that.”
As it turns out, the self-proclaimed #WashedKing isn’t washed on the defensive end. James himself announced on Nov. 19 that, “It’s a new year!” when it comes to his defense, playfully telling official Marc Davis in a game against Oklahoma City that times had changed when it comes to his defense. Jokes aside, any scout worth his salt will tell you that this is a level of defensive effort and engagement that we haven’t seen out of James for years.
Yet above all else, it’s this early revelation that this Lakers coaching staff is working in concert with one another – rather than in conflict, like so many expected – that might make all the difference in the end. But do these early perceptions meet the reality behind the scenes? And how, after two rebuilding seasons in Orlando where Vogel was unable to make his defensive Magic work, did he take on the pressure-filled task?
In an attempt to understand these dynamics that will be so vital to their title hopes, The Athletic broke it all down with a few Lakers whose combination of defensive know-how and extensive experience give them a unique and relevant view here: Vogel, Rajon Rondo, Avery Bradley and Jared Dudley.
Vogel, a former Division III point guard whose NBA career began as a video coordinator for then-Boston Celtics coach Rick Pitino in 2001 and who entered the season with a career record of 304-291 in eight seasons as a head coach
“You know, my Orlando years were basically spent tweaking my Pacers defense to fit the five-out (center out) modern NBA. I had to break a lot of things that we were doing in Indiana because they weren’t going to work here in the new NBA, and we adjusted some initially in Orlando but continued to tweak in the whole two years I was there (where the Magic were a combined 54-110). The last two or three months of my year I got fired (in 2018), we were out of the playoff race, so it was like a laboratory of ‘Let’s figure this thing out,’ you know what I mean? And we came up with some strong rules that help: Keep length at the basket, keep speed on the perimeter, (don’t) allow your defense to be inverted as much as the rest of the league is allowing their defense to be inverted, and then obviously there’s a lot of the principles from the defense we had in Indiana that are just good defensive principles that we try to carry over too.
“(The Magic approach) was adjust-and-tweak so we can win, but the last two months we were like 15 games back, and were already being asked to play the young players and all that, so I didn’t just throw in the towel. I said, ‘Let’s be experimental.’ …The priorities (are) shot priority: We want to not give up free throws (they’re seventh in the NBA in opponent free throw attempts), layups; ‘don’t foul’ is the first priority, nothing in the paint is second priority (eighth in opponent points in the paint), and no threes (fifth in opponent threes made). We want to force teams into the midrange as much as possible.”
Rajon Rondo, the 33-year-old, four-time All-Star who has had his share of run-ins with coaches in the past and who – as it turns out – wants to be a head coach someday…
“The biggest thing is that we’re all bought in. You get the team to that, and that’s over half the battle. …I’m always trying to (absorb) and learn. I always have an open mind, just to figure out people’s different philosophies. You’ve got to give it a try. (Vogel) has been in the league for a long time, and it’s not for (no) reason. What he did with his team in Indiana, what he’s done his whole career (matters). You don’t take that for granted. So I came in with an open mind listening to what he has to say and his philosophies, and I couldn’t agree with him more – 100 percent. What I love most about him is how he teaches in the film room.
“He calls guys out. He teaches the right way, with constructive criticism. And like I said, the guys are so receptive. So then you go out on the court, and we go over it, and next thing you know it shows up in the game. It’s the repetition of what he does in that room, and how it translates to the court, which is big. I haven’t seen a group of guys (like this) who gravitate to a coach who’s brand new, with a new system and a lot of first-year guys coming together. We’ve all bought in.
“The staff is unbelievable, and not just Frank. It’s the assistant coaches that he has, their style, the way he empowers them, the way they empower him. It’s a fun staff to be a part of. J-Kidd gets on my ass. Phil Handy gets on my ass. I love to be coached and to pick their brains. And I’m going to go back at them if I think it’s necessary or a need, but at the same time there’s still a respect factor, and a respect level that we have for one another which allows us to continue to get better and grow.
“If you can talk to (LeBron as the coach), you can talk to anybody. (Vogel’s) delivery, his communication, is great. That’s what I think I’m learning (about) for my future, if I want to go that route. I take notes every day. I’m trying to learn from coach. Sometimes I’ll write them down. Sometimes I’ll take a picture of the scouting report, what his philosophy is before the game and take a couple things I love about what he does and just continue to grow as a player.
“We obviously understand: (Vogel) has one goal, which is to coach as best he can to get us to the top. And we have so many veteran guys that there’s no egos in the way. We all believe in the goal as well, so whatever the coach asks for us we want to continue to get better. And like I said, the film doesn’t lie. You can make all the excuses you want during the game, but once you get in that film room and realize it’s like looking in the mirror, you realize that we’re all men and we’re all vets so we hold each other accountable.”
Sam Amick 5h ago
Even LeBron James’ closest associates didn’t know how this latest coaching relationship might work.
After all the weirdness that led to the Lakers’ hiring of Frank Vogel during the summer, when they chased LeBron’s old coach (Tyronn Lue) to no avail and missed out on Anthony Davis’ former coach too (Monty Williams), there was a widespread sense that it could get prickly again if Vogel didn’t gain their trust early on. Especially when Jason Kidd was added to Vogel’s staff and so many around the league saw him as the head-coach-in-waiting.
Lest anyone forget, Luke Walton was berated by former Lakers executive Magic Johnson just seven games into last season as general manager Rob Pelinka stood by his side. And that was before Davis’ arrival in June made them title contenders and placed an even brighter spotlight squarely on Vogel’s head. It’s a moot point now, but a lackluster start would have inspired all sorts of uncomfortable questions about what might come next for this staff that boasts three former head coaches in Vogel, Kidd and Lionel Hollins.
Alas, here they are: Entering Monday – with the 34-year-old James looking capable of winning his fifth MVP honor, Davis fitting in beautifully on both ends of the floor and so many surrounding pieces meshing so well therein – the Lakers not only have the league’s best record (14-2) and the league’s third-best net rating (7.9) but also have a prime chance to keep it going from here. Their next three games come against lesser foes in San Antonio (6-11), New Orleans (6-10) and Washington (5-8).
Cue Vogel, 46, breathing a well-deserved sigh of relief, and not only because his Lakers are ahead of the NBA pack.
He appears to be blending well with Kidd, who is 18 months removed from his firing as Milwaukee’s head coach and more than five years removed from the shady ending to his debut head coaching season in Brooklyn that led to his Bucks tenure. But the defensive acumen that earned Vogel the job in the first place, which was such a foundational part of those Indiana Pacers teams that pushed LeBron so hard during his Miami Heat days, is making an impact in Laker Land now too.
These massive and spry Lakers are fourth in defensive rating (102.5 points allowed per 100 possessions) and first in blocks (7.6 per game, with Minnesota second at 6.7). Vogel, a former Lakers advance scout (2005-06) whose Pacers teams led the league in defensive rating twice during his six seasons there (2010-16) and were top 10 five times, is earning the respect of his new co-workers in the kind of way that couldn’t have been assumed when they all clocked in together for the first time.
“I felt that we would be extremely prepared as an organization and as a ballclub,” James, who faced Vogel’s Pacers three times in the playoffs while with the Heat (including twice in the Eastern Conference Finals), told reporters during training camp. “(Those Pacers teams) were always one of our toughest opponents when I was in Miami, when he was at the helm. They were always prepared, as well as we were as well in Miami, so I knew that for sure once Rob (Pelinka) and everyone upstairs decided to choose him to be our head coach, I knew we would be very prepared.”
By all accounts, Vogel – whose staff also includes renowned player development assistant Phil Handy – is living up to his reputation as one of the game’s most diligent and deliberate defensive gurus. Yet as Vogel is the first to tell you, LeBron’s buy-in on both ends of the floor has been as big an X-factor as you’ll find.
“Whatever the history is (between him and James), LeBron has been a leader,” Vogel told The Athletic recently of James, who is averaging 25.2 points, a league-leading 10.8 assists, 7.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals. “To me, the best leaders are the ones that follow the lead of the coach. Forgetting the history and all that, he’s been great since I’ve been here. I’ve tried to present a vision of a style of play that makes sense, that fits our personnel, and he has kind of gotten behind that.”
As it turns out, the self-proclaimed #WashedKing isn’t washed on the defensive end. James himself announced on Nov. 19 that, “It’s a new year!” when it comes to his defense, playfully telling official Marc Davis in a game against Oklahoma City that times had changed when it comes to his defense. Jokes aside, any scout worth his salt will tell you that this is a level of defensive effort and engagement that we haven’t seen out of James for years.
Yet above all else, it’s this early revelation that this Lakers coaching staff is working in concert with one another – rather than in conflict, like so many expected – that might make all the difference in the end. But do these early perceptions meet the reality behind the scenes? And how, after two rebuilding seasons in Orlando where Vogel was unable to make his defensive Magic work, did he take on the pressure-filled task?
In an attempt to understand these dynamics that will be so vital to their title hopes, The Athletic broke it all down with a few Lakers whose combination of defensive know-how and extensive experience give them a unique and relevant view here: Vogel, Rajon Rondo, Avery Bradley and Jared Dudley.
Vogel, a former Division III point guard whose NBA career began as a video coordinator for then-Boston Celtics coach Rick Pitino in 2001 and who entered the season with a career record of 304-291 in eight seasons as a head coach
“You know, my Orlando years were basically spent tweaking my Pacers defense to fit the five-out (center out) modern NBA. I had to break a lot of things that we were doing in Indiana because they weren’t going to work here in the new NBA, and we adjusted some initially in Orlando but continued to tweak in the whole two years I was there (where the Magic were a combined 54-110). The last two or three months of my year I got fired (in 2018), we were out of the playoff race, so it was like a laboratory of ‘Let’s figure this thing out,’ you know what I mean? And we came up with some strong rules that help: Keep length at the basket, keep speed on the perimeter, (don’t) allow your defense to be inverted as much as the rest of the league is allowing their defense to be inverted, and then obviously there’s a lot of the principles from the defense we had in Indiana that are just good defensive principles that we try to carry over too.
“(The Magic approach) was adjust-and-tweak so we can win, but the last two months we were like 15 games back, and were already being asked to play the young players and all that, so I didn’t just throw in the towel. I said, ‘Let’s be experimental.’ …The priorities (are) shot priority: We want to not give up free throws (they’re seventh in the NBA in opponent free throw attempts), layups; ‘don’t foul’ is the first priority, nothing in the paint is second priority (eighth in opponent points in the paint), and no threes (fifth in opponent threes made). We want to force teams into the midrange as much as possible.”
Rajon Rondo, the 33-year-old, four-time All-Star who has had his share of run-ins with coaches in the past and who – as it turns out – wants to be a head coach someday…
“The biggest thing is that we’re all bought in. You get the team to that, and that’s over half the battle. …I’m always trying to (absorb) and learn. I always have an open mind, just to figure out people’s different philosophies. You’ve got to give it a try. (Vogel) has been in the league for a long time, and it’s not for (no) reason. What he did with his team in Indiana, what he’s done his whole career (matters). You don’t take that for granted. So I came in with an open mind listening to what he has to say and his philosophies, and I couldn’t agree with him more – 100 percent. What I love most about him is how he teaches in the film room.
“He calls guys out. He teaches the right way, with constructive criticism. And like I said, the guys are so receptive. So then you go out on the court, and we go over it, and next thing you know it shows up in the game. It’s the repetition of what he does in that room, and how it translates to the court, which is big. I haven’t seen a group of guys (like this) who gravitate to a coach who’s brand new, with a new system and a lot of first-year guys coming together. We’ve all bought in.
“The staff is unbelievable, and not just Frank. It’s the assistant coaches that he has, their style, the way he empowers them, the way they empower him. It’s a fun staff to be a part of. J-Kidd gets on my ass. Phil Handy gets on my ass. I love to be coached and to pick their brains. And I’m going to go back at them if I think it’s necessary or a need, but at the same time there’s still a respect factor, and a respect level that we have for one another which allows us to continue to get better and grow.
“If you can talk to (LeBron as the coach), you can talk to anybody. (Vogel’s) delivery, his communication, is great. That’s what I think I’m learning (about) for my future, if I want to go that route. I take notes every day. I’m trying to learn from coach. Sometimes I’ll write them down. Sometimes I’ll take a picture of the scouting report, what his philosophy is before the game and take a couple things I love about what he does and just continue to grow as a player.
“We obviously understand: (Vogel) has one goal, which is to coach as best he can to get us to the top. And we have so many veteran guys that there’s no egos in the way. We all believe in the goal as well, so whatever the coach asks for us we want to continue to get better. And like I said, the film doesn’t lie. You can make all the excuses you want during the game, but once you get in that film room and realize it’s like looking in the mirror, you realize that we’re all men and we’re all vets so we hold each other accountable.”
cont.
Avery Bradley, the Lakers’ 28-year-old guard who has been a member of the NBA’s all-defense teams twice (and who is currently recovering from a hairline fracture in his right leg)
“I’ve never had a coach teach (like this) and feel comfortable enough to teach guys stuff they can improve on the defensive end. Like (Lakers center) Dwight (Howard at a recent practice), he’s showing how he can help our team by not fouling as much on certain plays. And he’s been doing that for everybody. Like even myself, I had been struggling a lot in the preseason, had a lot of fouls. But (now) I’m just trying to be efficient. It’s about a way you can help your team. I feel like it’s selfish when you’re fouling, just making plays that – going for steals every single possession was putting me out of position and putting my teammates in bad situations to commit fouls or for the team to score.
“We’re doing the same thing on the offensive end. We have a great coach in Frank and Jason Kidd. Those guys are talking to us all the time, so we’re improving every single day. When our offense catches up? It’ll be scary. (The Lakers’ offense is currently eighth in offensive rating).”
Jared Dudley, the 34-year-old forward who is playing in his 13th season with his ninth team and who played under Kidd during his Bucks tenure (2014-15)…
“Some people might be saying (Kidd) is gunning for his job, (but) I see a family approach. I see them laughing. I see Vogel laughing with Kidd and Lionel Hollins. You see how they all have their own role. …Obviously Vogel’s a big defensive guy, (so) you have (him) breaking down the opponents. Phil Handy (who is very popular among NBA stars and who took part in the last five Finals), going over certain personnel. (You have) Jason Kidd, because of familiarity with certain players. … When he speaks offense you’re more keen. You’d think that would be a little rocky trying to figure people out man, but he’s a player’s coach. He asks for opinions. He said ‘This is what I like to do, what are your guys’ views on it, and eventually he makes a decision.’
“I think that (Kidd) is more keen to listen (in this role compared to the Bucks). The first thing he ever told me was like, man, ‘Phil Handy’s really good.’ That was the first thing he even told me. …And that ended up being the truth, so yeah, he’s joking around more with players – come on, he’s a player. And he knows that for him to get back to his goal — I think that’s everyone, every assistant wants to be a head coach — you have to take steps to get back up there.
“So for me, I couldn’t even imagine it even getting better. I was just shocked how smooth of a transition it was, not only for the coaching staff but for the coaching staff relating to the players. I think it’s been phenomenal.”
—The Athletic’s Bill Oram contributed to this report.
(Top Photo: Mark J. Rebilas / USA Today)
“I’ve never had a coach teach (like this) and feel comfortable enough to teach guys stuff they can improve on the defensive end. Like (Lakers center) Dwight (Howard at a recent practice), he’s showing how he can help our team by not fouling as much on certain plays. And he’s been doing that for everybody. Like even myself, I had been struggling a lot in the preseason, had a lot of fouls. But (now) I’m just trying to be efficient. It’s about a way you can help your team. I feel like it’s selfish when you’re fouling, just making plays that – going for steals every single possession was putting me out of position and putting my teammates in bad situations to commit fouls or for the team to score.
“We’re doing the same thing on the offensive end. We have a great coach in Frank and Jason Kidd. Those guys are talking to us all the time, so we’re improving every single day. When our offense catches up? It’ll be scary. (The Lakers’ offense is currently eighth in offensive rating).”
Jared Dudley, the 34-year-old forward who is playing in his 13th season with his ninth team and who played under Kidd during his Bucks tenure (2014-15)…
“Some people might be saying (Kidd) is gunning for his job, (but) I see a family approach. I see them laughing. I see Vogel laughing with Kidd and Lionel Hollins. You see how they all have their own role. …Obviously Vogel’s a big defensive guy, (so) you have (him) breaking down the opponents. Phil Handy (who is very popular among NBA stars and who took part in the last five Finals), going over certain personnel. (You have) Jason Kidd, because of familiarity with certain players. … When he speaks offense you’re more keen. You’d think that would be a little rocky trying to figure people out man, but he’s a player’s coach. He asks for opinions. He said ‘This is what I like to do, what are your guys’ views on it, and eventually he makes a decision.’
“I think that (Kidd) is more keen to listen (in this role compared to the Bucks). The first thing he ever told me was like, man, ‘Phil Handy’s really good.’ That was the first thing he even told me. …And that ended up being the truth, so yeah, he’s joking around more with players – come on, he’s a player. And he knows that for him to get back to his goal — I think that’s everyone, every assistant wants to be a head coach — you have to take steps to get back up there.
“So for me, I couldn’t even imagine it even getting better. I was just shocked how smooth of a transition it was, not only for the coaching staff but for the coaching staff relating to the players. I think it’s been phenomenal.”
—The Athletic’s Bill Oram contributed to this report.
(Top Photo: Mark J. Rebilas / USA Today)
- Status