Atsym Sknyfs
Superstar
meanwhile superman returns gets worse and worse....
10 Years Later, Is Dark Knight Still The Best?
- Thread starter MartyMcFly
- Start date
meanwhile superman returns gets worse and worse....
Ukbrotha
Superstar
I love the Dark Knight. But there are atleast 3 or 4 MCu movies that do more for me now.
Ironically, Man of Steel is doper to me before it gets to metropolis for the ending. All of the shyt before that is on point. Superman Returns just feels like too much of a remake of superman and superman 2 but I do love Routh's interpretation.
Still tho, best interpretation of superman in the past decade has come from justice league and justice league unlimited. I stand by that shyt
Dr. Narcisse
Veteran
Well BP is definitely third among those in terms of ending.I'd say I don't give a fukk what they bring up but I'm a malcontent, what do I know
I'm just saying for me, sticking the landing helps and the final CGI slugfest on a battlefield in Atlanta with another CGI fest underground on a green screen isn't going to be as powerful to me as Harvey Dent asking Gordon to pick which family member gets to die while he begs for their lives and batman tries to use caution and reason with a man who has lost everything and can't be reasoned with.
Even if Killmonger got his shyt off Wakanda and they'd have to deal with the ramifications of that, that wouldn't have changed the formula. It's why I love the third act of civil war because the final battle is just between three people and while there's CG involved, it's not to that level and you can feel how personal that shyt is and how ugly it could get and got. There's more emotion there and more shyt to genuinely grab me. The whole movie was building to that and it wasn't afraid to darken its heroes a bit. But then its negated with the cell phone and line of communication thing.
Dark Knight gets a lot of props from me for having its final "battle" truly just be three people having a very suspenseful conversation and a child's life being in danger
I think BP's editing and choice to go CGI heavy did hurt it's 3rd act. Conceptually Coogler was doing as bold as both of those movies. Having the personal fight with TCHalla/Killmonger, i.e resulting in history repeating himself. The final exchange between the two was going for something truly powerful. Also having 3 different Wakandans battling it out over the direction of Wakanda. Conceptually everything was there. The problem was the execution wasn't the smoothest. If we got an all time classic fight between Killmonger/TChalla it makes the scene afterwards that much better.
Editing out this scene. undercut just how powerful the final exchange between them was. Still great, but damn.
Marvel was afraid (maybe rightly at the time) of making the movie longer for ticket sales.
On paper it was trying to be the perfect balance of action and character. It just didn't work out as planned.
Atsym Sknyfs
Superstar
I'd say I don't give a fukk what they bring up but I'm a malcontent, what do I know
I'm just saying for me, sticking the landing helps and the final CGI slugfest on a battlefield in Atlanta with another CGI fest underground on a green screen isn't going to be as powerful to me as Harvey Dent asking Gordon to pick which family member gets to die while he begs for their lives and batman tries to use caution and reason with a man who has lost everything and can't be reasoned with.
Even if Killmonger got his shyt off Wakanda and they'd have to deal with the ramifications of that, that wouldn't have changed the formula. It's why I love the third act of civil war because the final battle is just between three people and while there's CG involved, it's not to that level and you can feel how personal that shyt is and how ugly it could get and got. There's more emotion there and more shyt to genuinely grab me. The whole movie was building to that and it wasn't afraid to darken its heroes a bit. But then its negated with the cell phone and line of communication thing.
Dark Knight gets a lot of props from me for having its final "battle" truly just be three people having a very suspenseful conversation and a child's life being in danger
you know whats weird for me... mentally I always think of the airport fight as the "end" of CW and I always forget the stuff after.. everytime Tony sneaks out the aircraft I'm like .. oh yeah .. that's right, its not over
Watchmen>>>
Yeah every studio quibbles over how long is too long. I don't think they're hurting about the decision tho lol. Still the highest grossing comic book movie of the year and the highest grossing movie of the year or one of. And it was a legitimate cultural phenomenon. Vulture has it as their best comic book movie of all time. Not being the best on this board won't send Feige and Disney into tears
Atsym Sknyfs
Superstar
I agree Routh and Spacey did what they were hired to do ... everything else sucked... I mean that hospital scene and him getting stabbed should've stood out more but didn't.. they should played a little more with MArtha not being able to see her son..
Are you included S:TAS in that or you strictly going with JL w/ Tim Daly and not Newburn? or the VA didn't matter and its the portrayal as a whole..
Dr. Narcisse
Veteran
Just unwatchable. I don't blame Routh for it.
Fantastic exploration of Clark Kent.
Low key the director's cut might be as good as TDK...at least to meWatchmen>>>
Because that feels like the end of their movies normally. But then it goes to a more complex place and I love that shyt. Each character in their universe has taken on an identity as far as how its movies will be, Iron Man's flicks were like modern day Indiana Jones' while Cap's movies get to be more thoughtful and a little deeper. Thor gets the big loud 70s/80s rock album cover movies etc
Dr. Narcisse
Veteran
I know we getting off topic.Yeah every studio quibbles over how long is too long. I don't think they're hurting about the decision tho lol. Still the highest grossing comic book movie of the year and the highest grossing movie of the year or one of. And it was a legitimate cultural phenomenon. Vulture has it as their best comic book movie of all time. Not being the best on this board won't send Feige and Disney into tears
However, what does the sequel need to do to be TDK level? And does the success of the 1st one allow for them to push the boundaries more or not fix whats broke.
Cause despite it not getting the love from fans like other comic book movies (Outside of TheColi I don't see it get near the love as Logan, IW, WS, Civil War Spidey 2, , etc)
it did receive great critical reception.
Yeah parts of it, but like @Dr. Narcisse just said, I think JL and JLU explored Clark better than his own show, ironically. We got to see the different shades of him. When he was willing to let Apokolips die on some "fukk it, let them cook" or when he was ready to end Darksied right then and there, or even being willing to cut a deal with Lex to handle the justice lords. By playing him against other people and putting him in situations he wasn't used to, we got to see more character and I really wish the movies did him that kind of justice. He's not this big blue Boy Scout; he's a pretty complex character because he, like batman, flirts with that internal struggle to do the right thing or wrong thing but he always chooses the right thing and we rarely get to see that struggle. Bruce Timm showed us what that struggle looks like
What fans are we talking about tho? The shyt made TONS of money, and like I said, became a genuine cultural movement breh. Are we talking online on message boards? fukk them. The silent majority is real on the internet and the amount of people who don't speak up pales to the amount of people who do. This movie was number one at the box office for weeks, made more money than God, gets recognized by damn near every publication as one of the best movies of the year if not the best, and is the highest grossing marvel movie ever. More than anything they've ever done.
BUT I will say the one thing those movies have over Panther, even Spidey 2, is they weren't afraid to really beat up their protagonist. Logan, Infinity War, Winter Soldier, Civil War and Spider-Man 2 all really put their heroes to the fire and test the hell out of them. Spider-Man 2 ends on this bright and cheery note, but that movie is far from cheery to sit through. For half the movie, we're seeing Peter just have life kick his ass. Winter Soldier sees Cap be disillusioned with his country and his position and everything he knows. Infinity War has that ending. Civil War has that ending and also isn't afraid to dirty people up.
It's probably my third favorite comic book movie of all time so I'm really splitting hairs here, but for me to have the sequel be number one, I'd want more interplay between the hero and the bad guy. Killmonger and T'Challa spend a lot of that movie separated and seem to be more so annoyed with each other than actually dislike each other.Compare that to Dark Knight where Batman and Joker get a scene together in the beginning, that dope ass interrogation scene, then the chase through the city, etc. They seem to be on a collision course for each other whereas T'Challa really doesn't want to hurt Killmonger. Killmonger feels like more of a stand-in for T'Challa's true beef, which is with tradition and the way his dad and forefathers handled the situation, which is a microcosm of the whole movie.
B!tchuoffendingme
Superstar
Like, are we just gunna pretend that the 15 minute prologue sequence with Russel Crowe doesnt blow most of the MCU lightweight drama out of the fukking water?
Like Kevin Spacey and Diane Lane werent perfectly cast?
Like there's more than a couple MCU villains better than Michael Shannon's Zod?
Like this action sequence aint still hard as fukk all these years later?
bigillwill06
All Star
Yea that man of steel might be the most underrated super hero movie of all time. That young clark wrapping that truckers rig around that pole tho