AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Only 29 he has at least 3 more years at this level.
10 year $341 Million for Francisco Lindor :damn:
- Thread starter Arithmetic
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fukk position. He is not an elite hitter but being paid like one. This is exactly why WAR is garbage.
Guys like Lindor get a massive boost because they play at a weak hitting position so when they put up above-average stats, they get paraded around like a top 5-10 player.
Maybe.
Troy Tulowitzki put up a 1.035 OPS at age 29. Then fell off a cliff and was done at 32 (retired at 34 after 5 meaningless games with the Yankees).
Nomar Garciaparra had an .870 OPS at age 29. Never played a full season after that. .700 OPS by age 32. Retired at 35.
Jimmy Rollins had an .875 OPS at age 28. A .786 OPS at age 29 and never OPSed higher than .743 the rest of his career.
Let's see if Lindor has better luck.
He could.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
You have to say fukk position for your narrative to make any sense. And don't guys get paid for their position? Starters make more than relievers, skill positions guys make more than limited defense etc.?
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Tulo was always injury prone this guy is not. But yes, let's see.Maybe.
Troy Tulowitzki put up a 1.035 OPS at age 29. Then fell off a cliff and was done at 32 (retired at 34 after 5 meaningless games with the Yankees).
Nomar Garciaparra had an .870 OPS at age 29. Never played a full season after that. .700 OPS by age 32. Retired at 35.
Jimmy Rollins had an .875 OPS at age 28. A .786 OPS at age 29 and never OPSed higher than .743 the rest of his career.
Let's see if Lindor has better luck.
He could.
There's only so much money to go around. If a team pays a premium for a short stop, they probably aren't going to pony up the same for other positions. Nobody is paying $30+ million for every spot on the diamond. They're all important and hitting trumps all.
Mookie and Lindor are making the same money. One is a superstar, one is a good shortstop.
Ha-Seong Kim has basically the same WAR as Ohtani as a hitter.
The Astros don't have a bunch of amazing defenders but they're in the mix every season. The Phils made a run last year with a bunch of average and below average defenders.
Do you think the Braves are steam rolling the league this year because of their defense or because they're beating the cover off baseballs?
Maybe.
Troy Tulowitzki put up a 1.035 OPS at age 29. Then fell off a cliff and was done at 32 (retired at 34 after 5 meaningless games with the Yankees).
Nomar Garciaparra had an .870 OPS at age 29. Never played a full season after that. .700 OPS by age 32. Retired at 35.
Jimmy Rollins had an .875 OPS at age 28. A .786 OPS at age 29 and never OPSed higher than .743 the rest of his career.
Let's see if Lindor has better luck.
He could.
Add Xander Bogaerts to that list.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
You don't even know what you are talking about. Lindor makes a lot more than Mookie Betts. Mookie signed his awhile ago.There's only so much money to go around. If a team pays a premium for a short stop, they probably aren't going to pony up the same for other positions. Nobody is paying $30+ million for every spot on the diamond. They're all important and hitting trumps all.
Mookie and Lindor are making the same money. One is a superstar, one is a good shortstop.
Ha-Seong Kim has basically the same WAR as Ohtani as a hitter.
The Astros don't have a bunch of amazing defenders but they're in the mix every season. The Phils made a run last year with a bunch of average and below average defenders.
Do you think the Braves are steam rolling the league this year because of their defense or because they're beating the cover off baseballs?
Who is the highest-paid MLB player in 2024? These are the top 25 baseball salaries
Fifteen of the 30 MLB teams have at least one player earning $25 million or more this season. Shohei Ohtani's $70 million salary is by far the most.
www.usatoday.com
Why do you think Matt Olsen amd Freddie Freeman make less than Lindor, Seager, Turner, Bogarts, Correa? They are better hitters than all of them. They aren't randomly picking SS as a premium position. It's the defense.
Just as a side note,There's only so much money to go around. If a team pays a premium for a short stop, they probably aren't going to pony up the same for other positions. Nobody is paying $30+ million for every spot on the diamond. They're all important and hitting trumps all.
Mookie and Lindor are making the same money. One is a superstar, one is a good shortstop.
Ha-Seong Kim has basically the same WAR as Ohtani as a hitter.
The Astros don't have a bunch of amazing defenders but they're in the mix every season. The Phils made a run last year with a bunch of average and below average defenders.
Do you think the Braves are steam rolling the league this year because of their defense or because they're beating the cover off baseballs?
The more I read around, WAR values tend to underrate Designated Hitters. So that stat can be a little unfair to Ohtani...who has been exclusively a DH this season. How much does it underrated DHs? I'm not entirely sure.
But the takeaway for me isn't that "WAR sucks because Ohtani is clearly more valuable than Ha-Seong Kim"
My takeaway is that Ha-Seong Kim is probably really undervalued. Everyone knows Ohtani is great. Probably few people recognize how good Kim is.
I'm surprised at how rough Bogaerts' season has been.
He was probably a Top 5-6 shortstop coming into the season.
It's been closer to 9-10 in reality.
Mookie signed one year before Lindor.You don't even know what you are talking about. Lindor makes a lot more than Mookie Betts. Mookie signed his awhile ago.
Who is the highest-paid MLB player in 2024? These are the top 25 baseball salaries
Fifteen of the 30 MLB teams have at least one player earning $25 million or more this season. Shohei Ohtani's $70 million salary is by far the most.
Why do you think Matt Olsen amd Freddie Freeman make less than Lindor, Seager, Turner, Bogarts, Correa? They are better hitters than all of them. They aren't randomly picking SS as a premium position. It's the defense.
Olson and Freeman are underpaid. All of those shortstops are overpaid although Seager is having a career year this season.
Anchoring a lineup is more important (and more difficult) than being a great defender. The geeks have it wrong.
Because WAR is weighted differently for each position and defense is wildly overrated with its calculation.
Trout, for as awesome as he's been, got a massive positional boost each year because he played center field. Now, he's generally been considered a relatively poor center fielder BUT because he plays the position, he still gets a massive boost to his WAR as a result. If he'd played one of the corner positions all these years, his WAR would have been quite a bit lower.
Like this year, Mookie's getting a big boost in comparison to Acuna because he's spent half his time at second and short. Mookie combines elite hitting WITH elite defense all over the place, so I get it and think that's fair.
Kim gets an enormous boost for playing 2B, which is generally a weak hitting position. He has an OPS of .783. That's nothing remarkable. That is replaceable.
Which goes to my point of WAR being garbage. You can always find an athlete to play defense; you cannot always find a bat to carry your lineup.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Lindor finished 5th in RBIs last year but he's not an anchor? OK.Mookie signed one year before Lindor.
Olson and Freeman are underpaid. All of those shortstops are overpaid although Seager is having a career year this season.
Anchoring a lineup is more important (and more difficult) than being a great defender. The geeks have it wrong.
I
You don’t just get a boost for playing 2B or SS or CF.
Those positions are valuable. It’s true. Because they tend to see the most opportunities. But you still have to be good.
There’s no one who is a bad centerfielder who suddenly becomes more valuable than a great 1B simply because they play CF.
Kevin Kiermaier might be the best defensive CF in baseball this season. Freddie Freeman is one of the worst this year.
Their WAR values aren’t anything close to one another.
That’s not how it works though.
You don’t just get a boost for playing 2B or SS or CF.
Those positions are valuable. It’s true. Because they tend to see the most opportunities. But you still have to be good.
There’s no one who is a bad centerfielder who suddenly becomes more valuable than a great 1B simply because they play CF.
Kevin Kiermaier might be the best defensive CF in baseball this season. Freddie Freeman is one of the worst this year.
Their WAR values aren’t anything close to one another.
He's 28th this year.
A career year is not the norm for him and it's the only time he's been above 92.