10 Facts That Clear Up Confusion Around What Exactly Is an Arab

[Swagnificent]

Its the same people who claim West Asians came back and created Dynastic Egypt.

racism is a mental disease. makes people lose all reason.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

so lemme get this straight. all of the afro-asiatic languages reside SOLELY in Africa except for one. but simply because some semtic speakers are located outside of africa, you are willing to think its more plausible that ALL of the family originated outside of Africa?

thats some stretch armstrong shyt right there.

My personal opinion is that they originated in the Nile valley, but I'm not a linguist and neither are you. Relax breh.

 

[Swagnificent]

My personal opinion is that they originated in the Nile valley, but I'm not a linguist and neither are you. Relax breh.

why the nile valley? southern ethiopia has the highest diversity of afro-asiatic speakers. you got cushytic, semitic, and omotic speakers living side by side. plus its got the longest history of human inhabitation.

 

[J-Nice]

^^^Except for the fact that my core argument is in no way dependent or rest on whether or not you feel my use of the term "Afrocentric" is appropriate or not. I don't get how you can claim I'm being intellectually dishonest or misrepresenting someone because of my use of the abstraction "Afrocentrist". I even stated before that one doesn't nessasarily have to self-identify as an Afrocentrist to be making Afrocentrist arguments in the same way most people I would consider racist wouldn't self-identify as racist, in my book(yes that is my subjective point of view). Why is that so hard for you to wrap your head around? How is it then that without actually specifying which arguments presented I've twisted or misrepresented thus far can you just sit here to attempt to poison the well, by launching all of these ad homenin attacks on my character such that what I say reeks of cowardice, intellectual laziness etc etc just because my use of the term "Afrocentric" gets you really riled up apparently. Like I said before, my main argument is that the claim that "the original arabs were black" is fallacious in it's very nature- That's an objective observation by me. One that's completely independent and isn't in anyway contingent on whether or not you feel my use of the term "Afrocentrist" is appropriate(which is, like I said before, subjective) So here's a question: What flaws in my argument which is that particular claim in the OP is fallacious do you take issue with?

In short just to make things simple, this is a particular claim made in the OP: "the original arabs were black"

The claim is fallacious in it's very nature: My main argument that I'm presenting from an objective observation

The opinion that the claim is of a typical Afrocentric nature: My subjective point of view. One that doesn't in anyway act as a determiner or modifier of my main argument argument.

^^^^It seems you've found a nice red herring in the latter statement to hone in on in an attempt to shift the issue from my main argument.

You're right. It was actually wrong of me to make that deduction of your character (no matter how much I think I am correct in my assertions). For that you have my apologies.

Now in regards to your claims of dismissing afrocentric arguments, can you please define what these Afrocentric arguments are? Also can you please identify the Afrocentrics who are making said arguments? Thank you.

Can you also clarify for me

Like I said before, my main argument is that the claim that "the original arabs were black" is fallacious in it's very nature- That's an objective observation by me.

How did you come to such an observation? Was that by way of the three quotes you provided? Or was this based on evidence that you have seen that speaks to the contrary? Can you please cite those sources that support your claim that the "Original Arabs were NOT black"? Thank you.

While were on the subject of Afrocentrism, please allow me to post the definition of said tenet and one of the principle scholars of said tenet.

Per Merriam Webster


Afrocentric




adjective Af·ro·cen·tric \ˌa-frō-ˈsen-trik\
Definition of AFROCENTRIC
1
: centered on or derived from Africa or the Africans
2
: emphasizing or promoting emphasis on African culture and the contributions of Africans to the development of Western civilization
— Af·ro·cen·tric·i·ty
\-ˌsen-ˈtri-sə-tē\ noun
— Af·ro·cen·trism
\-ˈsen-ˌtri-zəm\ noun
— Af·ro·cen·trist
\-ˈsen-trist\ noun or adjective

Here is an Afrocentric scholar

Dr. Molefi Kete Asante

Dr. Molefi Kete Asante is Professor and Chair, Department of African American Studies at Temple University. Considered by his peers to be one of the most distinguished contemporary scholars, Asante has published 77 books, among the most recent are The Dramatic Genius of Charles Fuller, African American Traditions, Facing South to Africa, The History of Africa 2nd Edition, As I Run Toward Africa, The African American People, Maulana Karenga: An Intellectual Portrait, An Afrocentric Manifesto, Encyclopedia of African Religion, co-edited with Ama Mazama, Cheikh Anta Diop: An Intellectual Portrait, Handbook of Black Studies, co-edited with Maulana Karenga, Encyclopedia of Black Studies, co-edited with Ama Mazama, Race, Rhetoric, and Identity: The Architecton of Soul, Erasing Racism: The Survival of the American Nation, Ancient Egyptian Philosophers, Scattered to the Wind, and 100 Greatest African Americans. Asante’s high school text, African American History: Journey of Liberation, 2nd Edition, is used in more than 400 schools throughout North America.
Asante has been recognized as one of the ten most widely cited African Americans. He is honored as a HistoryMaker with an archival interview in the US Library of Congress. In the 1990s, Black Issues in Higher Education recognized him as one of the most influential leaders in the decade. Molefi Kete Asante graduated from Oklahoma Christian College in 1964. He completed his M.A. at Pepperdine University in 1965. He received his Ph.D. from UCLA at the age of 26 in 1968 and was appointed a full professor at the age of 30 at the State University of New York at Buffalo. In 1969 he was the co-founder with Robert Singleton of the Journal of Black Studies. Asante directed UCLA’s Center for Afro American Studies from 1969 to 1973. He chaired the Communication Department at SUNY-Buffalo from 1973-1980. He worked in Zimbabwe as a trainer of journalists from 1980 to 1982. In the Fall of 1984 Dr. Asante became chair of the African American Studies Program at Temple University where he created the first Ph.D. Program in African American Studies in 1987. He has directed more than 140 Ph.D. dissertations. He has written more than 550 articles and essays for journals, books and magazines and is the founder of the theory of Afrocentricity.

Asante was born in Valdosta, Ga., one of sixteen children. He is a poet, dramatist, and a painter. His work on African culture and philosophy and African American education has been cited by journals such as the Matices, Journal of Black Studies, Journal of Communication, American Scholar, Daedalus, Western Journal of Black Studies, and Africaological Perspectives. The Utne Reader called him one of the “100 Leading Thinkers” in America. In 2001, Transition Magazine reported “Asante may be the most important professor in Black America.” He has appeared on Nightline, Nighttalk, BET, Macnell Lehrer News Hour, Today Show, the Tony Brown Show, Night Watch, Like It Is and 60 Minutes and more than one hundred local and international television shows. He has appeared in several movies including 500 Years Later, The Faces of Evil, and The Black Candle. In 2002 he received the distinguished Douglas Ehninger Award for Rhetorical Scholarship from the National Communication Association. The African Union cited him as one of the twelve top scholars of African descent when it invited him to give one of the keynote addresses at the Conference of Intellectuals of Africa and the Diaspora in Dakar in 2004. He was inducted into the Literary Hall of Fame for Writers of African Descent at the Gwendolyn Brooks Center at Chicago State University in 2004. In April 2014 he was invited to give a speech at the UN’s General Assembly on Peace in Africa. In 2014 he was invited to be a keynote speaker at the Japan Black Studies Association’s 60th conference in Kyoto, Japan. Dr. Asante holds more than 100 awards for scholarship and teaching including the Fulbright, honorary doctorates from three universities, and is a guest professor at Zhejiang University and Professor Extraordinarius at the University of South Africa.


In 1995 he was made a traditional king, Nana Okru Asante Peasah, Kyidomhene of Tafo, Akyem, Ghana. In 2012 he was given the title of Wanadoo of Gao in the court of the Amiru Hassimi Maiga of Songhoy. Dr. Asante has been or is presently a consultant for a dozen school districts. He was the Chair of the United States Commission for FESMAN III for three years. Asante was elected in September, 2009, by the Council of African Intellectuals as the Chair for the Diaspora Intellectuals in support of the United States of Africa. Dr. Molefi Asante believes it is not enough to know; one must act to humanize the world.

If you must ask, I take disagreement with your argument of the Original Arabs not being black because so far the sources you have used in relation to the views expressed of Africans during Islamic expansion in the medieval era does not address disprove that the original Arabs were NOT black. They merely show prejudice which can also be found in sources from the same eras in regard to the Slavs, Iraqi's, Syrians etc; Peoples that Arabs distinguished themselves from.

In discussions of this nature, it is unwise to use one's subjective views less they be overcome by emotionalism.

I never said anyone was using Atlantablackstar as a primary source. Atlantablackstar as a publication was founded in into the 21 century, so how could it be used as primary source material for anything that transpired in the medieval era? I said that using an Atlantablackstar article as a source to lend credibility to a claim about history is a problem(Though using it as a lead or portal to a credible source would be perfectly fine.). But, don't let that stop from doing what you've been wailing on about thus far, which is strawmanning and proceeding to launch personal attacks based on those strawmans.

And the book by Bertram Sidney Thomas that they cited isn't a primary source either, nor is it an uptodate, scholarly, peer-reviewed piece of literature. And in the quote they cited doesn't even lend credence to the idea of the "original arabs being black". The articles quotes the following "the natives of Arabia “were not the familiar Arabs of our time but a very much darker people." So, far only Kidstranglehold has taken the care to preface his arguments by distinguishing the difference between "Arabians" & "Arabs" because the two are not interchangeable- Not all Arabs are Arabian and not all Arabians are Arabs. There are records of people in Arabia before long before recorded genesis of the Arabs came about, such as those of the Old Southern Arabian language speakers which are encompassed by the Southern Semetic lingustic group, who's most direct linguistic descendants, at least linguistically, would be Modern South Arabian speaking people(they are non-arab minorities). Arabic as a language did not arise in Southern Arabian, where the author Bertram Thomas did his research, nor is it a Southern Semitic language, but Central Semitic language, thus it would be wise to not wise to equate Arabs with Arabians, especially southern Arabians considering, linguistically, Arabs are not native to Southern Arabian, but central and northern Arabia. Ill address the rest of this point with @KidStranglehold, seeing as he made MUCH better and well thought out points addressing this.

Like I said before, the article itself is nothing but catalyst for discussion and that is what were currently doing ( I hope we are). I don't believe anyone here has used it as any kind of source save a vehicle for discourse.

In regards to the quote ""the natives of Arabia “were not the familiar Arabs of our time but a very much darker people." and your assertion that this doesn't led credence to the Arabs being Black, how does it not?I'm struggling to understand your point here. Betram Thomas was not only an Arabist, but he was the first westerner to cross the Rub' Al Khali. He traveled the Arab world, researched, and wrote his findings. You can't dismiss him as a credible simply because you disagree. That isn't how this works.

I am aware of the distinction of who is Arab and who is not Arab because I made that distinction earlier within my sources. And how can Semetic be of Central or Northern origin when it's roots are in Ethiopia/Sudan? Not to mention many scholars have been disputing the language classification of such systems that put that it's origin in Asia.

Source Below:

“A careful reading of Diakonff shows his continuing adherence to his long-held position of an exclusively Africa origin for the family. He explicitly describes proto-Afroasiatic vocabulary as consistent with non-food-producing vocabulary and links it to pre--Neolithic cultures in the Levant and in Africa south of Egypt, noting the latter to be older. Diakonff does revise his location for the Common Semitic homeland, moving it from entirely within northeast Africa to areas straddling the Nile Delta and Sinai, but continues to place the origins of the five other branches of the family wholly in Africa. One interpretation of the archaeological data supports a pre-food-producing population movement from Africa into the Levant, consistent with the linguistic arguments for apre-Neolithic migration of pre-proto-Semitic speakers out of Africa via Sinai.” - Ehret et al.

 

[J-Nice]

Yeah okay, you're flustered and frustrated. We get it. So, just make it simple and show me what claim(s) I've made here that I didn't back up with evidence and I'll be happy to correct this flaw.

I'll forgive this ad hominem attack and let bygones be bygones. But I certainly wasn't up posting on the Coli at nearly 3:00 am in the morning

Can you please cite sources that DISPROVE the following:

1. All Original Semitic speakers were the Original Arabs
2. ALL of these Original Arabs were black
3.. Some of these tribes became extinct hence, the Arab al Ba'ida
4. Those originals who survived are divided into southerners i.e. Aribah (Qahtani) and northerners i.e. Mutarib (Adnani).
5.The southern Aribah or Qahtani are called 'pure' or 'genuine' because historically they were pristine and kept isolated while the northerners called Mutarib are the ones mixed with northern intruders who adopted the Semitic language and culture.
6.Further infiltration into the south occurred historically from the 1st millennium B.C. though such was minimal compared to later centuries during the Sassanid period of Iran and especially the Ottoman Turkish Empire when various northern peoples of even lighter (white) complexions entered the south.



I'll be waiting for those sources.........

I don't see how the original arabs would be "tropically adapted" seeing as the genesis of the Arabic speaking people happened geographically above the tropic of cancer in a temperate climate and from there they moved south into the tropical zone of Southern Arabia.. Anyway, These hadiths were a complemation of stories told during the time of the prophet muhammad before the islamic expansion under the first four Rashidun Caliphs outside of Arabia, unless you're counting the Old Southern Arabian speaking people, such as the Sabaeans who weren't Arab and were mentioned in the Qu'ran and were by and large absorbed into Arab identity. But, then again I this would probably contradict your point of lighter skinned people being absorbed, as the native Southern Arabian speaking people tend to be darker than Arabs.

Can you address the bold?Are you insinuating that the Sabeans were lighter skinned? If that is your assertion, can you please provide a source for that please? Thank you. Please be aware that the temperate zone is right near the tropical zone, so that doesn't take away from them being tropically adapted, or dark skinned.

Yeah, I searched all over the net for any legitimate source for these parameters for defining an Arab and I found nothing. So, I'm going to have to ask you to link to the source of this info, or otherwise I'm calling BS on this. "South Arabian Kushytes????????" There aren't even any Cushytic speaking people in Arabia aside from probably Somali refugees.

Cushytic languages like Somali were used to help in the refinement of the translation of Akkadian and other northeast Semitic languages because such languages preserve archaic peculiarities that are found in Afrisian groups.

I have no problem stating my sources. Sources are below

Arabia:
The Arabian peninsula is undoubtedly the Arabs' homeland, and the peoples that inhabited it in ancient times are to be regarded as the ancestors of the modern Arabs. Now, the query consists in establishing how much Semitic these peoples were and up to what amount the Ishmaelites have contributed to the formation of the Arab identity.
In the most ancient records the whole Arabia was commonly designed under the generic name of "Kush", which was extended throughout the entire region comprised between Southern Mesopotamia in the north and the White Nile Basin in the south, that is, including both sides of the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. Subsequently, there has been a clear distinction between Northern and Southern Arabia since early times, distinction that endured for centuries. The Arabs are the result of the progressive fusion of both entities developed over the original Kushyte background.
·Southern Arabian peoples:
Seven Kushyte peoples: Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Ra'mah, Sabtekha, Sheba and Dedan.
Twelve Semitic tribes (Yoqtanites): Almodad, Shelef, Hatzarmawt, Yerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diqlah, Obal, Abima'el, Shaba, Hawilah and Yobab.
·Northern Arabian peoples:
Early Kushyte population: Kûsh, Mušuri, Hawilah, Makkan.
Eight Semitic tribes (Midyanites/Lihyanites): Zimran, Yoqshan, Medan, Midyan, Yishbaq, Shuwah, Sheba and Dedan.
Twelve Ishmaelite tribes: Nebayot, Qedar, Adbe'el, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadar, Teyma, Yetur, Nafish and Qedmah.
The characteristics of these peoples are exposed under the next title.

Map showing the distribution of the Northern and Southern Arabian peoples :
notice that Central Arabia was primarily a Kushyte territory, in which both Northern and Southern Arabians converged in a later period

http://www.imninalu.net/myths-Arabs.htm

Source:

In this page, we are going to discuss about the lineage of Arabs among which Prophet Muhammad appeared. This is the topic that Ibn Ishaq begins his book with. The scholars have divided the Arabs before Islam into two broad categories – the extinct Arab and the remaining Arab.

Extinct Arabs – Al-Arab al-Baida
They are the earliest civilizations that lived in Arabia, thousands of years before Islam. These are the earliest civilizations of humanity in the Arabian peninsula. The Qur’an mentions some of their stories such as the stories of Aad and Thamud. They are two of those earliest civilizations. We now have documented evidence that Thamud existed about 5000 years ago from now.

Remaining Arabs – Al-Arab al-Baqiya
These are the Arabs that we are interested in. They are composed of two tribes – Kahtan and Adnan. Both of these tribes go back to Sam, the son of Noah.

Kahtan – the original Arabs
Kahtan was in fact the name of the leader of a tribe, he had a son named Ya Rab. The term Arab is linked back to this son of Kahtan. They are called the original Arabs – Al-Arab al-Ariba. The used to live in the southern side of Makkah.

Adnan – the Arabs who learnt Arabic
Prophet Ibrahim (A) was from Iraq. He fled Iraq with his cousin Sarah, he made his way through Egypt. In Egypt he was given a slave woman called ‘Hajr’ by the king. Therefore, Ismail (A) is not an Arab. He was left in a barren land in Makkah by his father, Prophet Ibrahim (A). As mentioned above, at that time, the tribe of Kahtan were living further to the south.

One of the tribes of Kahtan – Jurhum, passes by the area where Ismail (A) lived. He later married into this tribe, and began started speaking their language – Arabic. His children therefore also spoke Arabic. Few generations down the line, a luminary appeared by the name of Adnan. There were perhaps seven to ten generations, approximately 400-500 years, between Ismail (A) and Adnan. All of the Arab tribes are traced back to this person Adnan.

The descendants of Adnan are called Al-Arab Al-Musta’riba – the Arabs who learnt Arabic. Because Arabic was not their language, they learnt it from the original Arabs.

Later on, the tribe of Adnan, who learnt Arabic from the originals, became better in their language. This is because they used to live in the central location, all the other tribes used to go through them and by them. Therefore with time, they could get the best of all the Arab cultures and their language became more eloquent, more powerful and more prestigious.

Prophet Muhammad was the twentieth offspring of Adnan, and this is agreed upon by all the scholars. There are no difference of opinion on this, we have the exact lineage traced back to Adnan.

http://lifeofprophet.com/seerah/who-exactly-were-the-arabs/

Source:

It would seem, therefore, that in pre-Islamic nomenclature there was a special term for the nomadic tribes, 'A'rab, whereas the term 'Arab indicated all inhabitants of the peninsula, nomads and sedentary population alike. The matter is complicated by another distinction made in the indigenous historiographical tradition. It was thought that the peninsula had been inhabited from time immemorial by the 'lost Arabs' ( al-'Arab al-ba'ida ), i.e. those tribes that are mentioned in the Qur'an as having been punished for their disbelief, for instance the tribes of 'Ad, Tamud and Gurhum . The later Arabs all descended from two ancestors, Qahtan and 'Adnan. Qahtan was related to the 'lost Arabs'; his descendants were identified as the Southern Arabs and they were regarded as the 'real Arabs' ( al-'Arab al-'ariba ). The descendants of 'Adnan were the Northern Arabs, who were said to have been arabised at a later period ( al-'Arab al-muta'arriba or al-musta 'riba ). In the post-Islamic tradition, the descent of the Northern Arabs was traced back through their ancestor 'Adnan to 'Isma’il, the son of Abraham. Among the tribes descending from 'Adnan were Hudayl, Tamim, Qays, Rabi'a, and the Quraysh of Mecca. Among the offspring of Qahtan were the inhabitants of the South Arabian states, who were said to have descended from Himyar, one of Qahtan's descendants. Some of the tribes in the northern part of the peninsula were of southern provenance, for instance the 'Aws and Hazrag of Medina and the tribe Tayyi'.
http://acc.teachmideast.org/texts.php?module_id=1&reading_id=36&print=1


"According to Václav Blažek, this suggests that Semites assimilated their original Cushytic neighbours to the south who did not later emigrate to the Horn of Africa. He argues that the Levant would thus have been the Proto-Afro-Asiatic Urheimat, from where the various branches of the Afro-Asiatic family subsequently dispersed. To further support this, Blažek cites analysis of rock art in Central Arabia by Anati (1968, 180-84), which notes a connection between the shield-carrying "oval-headed" people depicted on the cave paintings and the Arabian Cushytes from the Old Testament, who were similarly described as carrying specific shields."


Will these suffice?

 

[J-Nice]

Right, so you're talking the Pre-Caliphs era. The hadiths I posted are stories from the time of the prophet Muhammad in the Pre-Caliph era. And with that said how much sense does it make to post a bunch of 19th & early 20th century post-victorian era(aka the golden age of racial pseudo science) quotes from Western journalist and academics who are known to have some skewed bizarre views about "race"? If you're not going to quote from primary sources from, as you say from the pre-islamic expansion era, then at least quote from up-to-date, credible, scholarly, peer-reviewed secondary sources. Why do you think you wont be able to find any modern anthropologist in their right mind that would use the kind of terminology to and those kinds of outdated methods of categorizing people into groups as you do with these 19th & early 20th century journalist and scholars you quoted do.

There is nothing wrong with the sources I have quoted so far. They are merely documented histories and descriptions of what the people looked like. Sounds like you have a subjective personal problem. That is not my problem. You aren't the authority to say what's relevant and what isn't. that isn't how that works.

Like this first one for instance , were the author is even not specifically referring to Arabs, but describing the inhabitants of South Arabia(the part of arabia were arabs are not indigenous.) I don't see how quotes like this are suppose to lend credence to your argument at all.

You just insinuated a few posts up that Sabeans and others from the North weren't tropically adopted. That quote directly contradicts the idea of Sabeans being light skinned. If you have a source that says otherwise, can you please cite it? Thank you.

And ALL of these quotes are from long after the era of Islamic expanision of after the death of Muhammad, where other people who weren't traditionally apart of arab identity were absorbed, an era you say we should avoid quoting from. And only three of them were actually quotes from Arabs themselves, and one(Ibn Khaldun) didn't even specify anything about the arabs physical description; I can't find a source for the Ibn Mandour quote, and Al-Jahiz of Basra himself, had a black skinned enslaved African grandfather. Basra was were the Zanj Rebellion took place, and still to this day has a significant Afro-Iraqi population. But, with that said how can you pick out that quote by him and ignore these quotes by him?

• We know that the Zanj (blacks) are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions

• Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament.

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=2002&x=arabviews

^^^^He clearly was referring to Africans or Afro-Arabs when he spoke of "the Zanj".

I have no problem with quoting from other eras. What I do have a problem with is your insistence on using such sources that DO NOT answer my following points:
1. All original Semitic speakers of the Peninsula were the original 'Arabs'.

2. ALL these original Arabs were BLACK.

3. Some of these tribes became extinct hence, the Arab al Ba'ida.

4. Those originals who survived are divided into southerners i.e. Aribah (Qahtani) and northerners i.e. Mutarib (Adnani).

5. The southern Aribah or Qahtani are called 'pure' or 'genuine' because historically they were pristine and kept isolated while the northerners called Mutarib are the ones mixed with northern intruders who adopted the Semitic language and culture.

6. Further infiltration into the south occurred historically from the 1st millennium B.C. though such was minimal compared to later centuries during the Sassanid period of Iran and especially the Ottoman Turkish Empire when various northern peoples of even lighter (white) complexions entered the south.

Thus, the BLACK Arabs were/are the original Arabs. Brown,beige,white,off white, or whatever color comes to mind are Arabs instituted or Arabs nationalized.

Since it was your wish to cut this discussion short with me, @KidStranglehold can take it from here.

More sources below:
https://books.google.com/books?id=K...PHg6gO&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=73&f=false

Pg 73-75


The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion (al-sumra wa al-sawād) and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion (al-ḥumra wa al-shaqra), and they used to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs.” Ibn Abi al-Hadid 13th c. citing the 9th century Al-Mubarrad in Sharh nahj al-balaghah, V:56.


Ibn Mandour writes - “The Arabs don’t say a man is white [or: “white man,” rajul abyad∙] due to a white complexion. Rather, whiteness [al-abyad] with them means an external appearance that is free from blemish; when they mean a white complexion they say ‘red’ (ahmar)… And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves.” ( p. 22)

By the 19th century the peninsula had been completely modified. But most colonialists appear to have been aware that the original indigenes of the Arabian peninsula or least modified of the Arabians were in fact close to Africans in appearance. An 1844 a gazeteer mentions that the inhabitants “of Mecca, with the exception of a few Hedjaz Bedouin, are foreigners, either foreigners or the offspring of foreigners…” The famous town of Jedda or Djidda too had come to be occupied by the peoples “of almost every Muslim nation” from Afghanistan and Kurdistan to Persia and Africa (M’Culloch & Haskel, 1844, p. 332).


What colors symbolize in the Arab world
https://books.google.com/books?id=T...ptian colloquial and classical Arabic&f=false

quotes from Al Jahiz below:

In the name of the Almighty, Merciful God; May God protect and keep you; let He make you
obey Him and make you part of his favorites. You mentioned – may Allah protect you from
deception – that you read my treatise (kitab) on the refutation of the pure Arabs to
those of mixed parentage, the replies of the mixed ones and the answers of their maternal
uncles. But I did not mention in it anything about the boasts of the Sudan. So know, -
may Allah preserve you – that I postponed that intentionally. And you mentioned that you
would like me to write to you the boasts of the Sudan, so I have written what I recall of
their boasts. Al-Asma'I said : Al-Fizr, a slave of the Fazara, who had a pierced earlobe
is known to have said: Harmony arrives quickly in the creation. Because of that goats
stay away from the sheep as long as there are goats around. The lamb avoids the
predators, and also does not feel close to the ones with big hoofs. Abu Zaid al-Nahwi
recited the following verse: Without harmony, man perishes. Saddad Al-Hariti - with
erudite eloquence - tells: “I requested from a black slave of the desert steppe:

The natives in the Bilad Zanj are in both Qambalu (Pemba) and Lunjuya (Unguja), just as
Arabs are the descendants of Adnan and Qahtan in the Middle East.
You have yet to see a member of the Langawiya kind, either from the coast (al-Sawahil),
or from the interior (al-Jouf). If you would meet these, you would forget the issue of
fair looks and perfection. Now if you refuse to believe this, saying that you have yet to
meet a Zanji with the brains even of a boy or a woman, we would reply to you, have you
ever met among the enslaved of India and Sindh individuals with brains, education,


culture and manners so as to expect these same qualities in what has fallen to you from
among the Zanj.

Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the
Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China,
and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks, such as
Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those
shores.

Al-Jahiz(The Zanj) is not saying that the Chinese are black but that there are black populations in China.

The 19th century Orientalist John Baldwin recognized the dark-skinned Yemenites as the original inhabitants of Arabia. He penned the following:

“To the Cushyte race belongs the oldest and purest Arabian blood, and also that great and very ancient civilization whose ruins abound in almost every district of the country. ..The south Arabs represent a residue of hamitic populations which at one time occupied the whole of Arabia” (Baldwin, 1874, p. 74).

An American encyclopedia says similarly of the peoples further west of Himyaritic speech in Hadramaut and Oman known as the Mahra: “The Himyarites are mentioned in classical literature under the name of Homerites. They traced their origin to Himyar, grandson of Saba and descendant of Joktan or Kahtan, one of the mythical ancestors of the Arabs. According to their traditions, they became the dominant race in Yemen about 3,000 years before the time of Mohammed… Direct descendants of the Himyarites are the tribes of Mahrah. They are black in color, medium in stature, Semitic in countenance…” (from the 1873, The American Cyclopaedia; A popular dictionary of general knowledge, Volume 8, p. 734)

@KidStranglehold @Poitier Please correct me if you see anything of blemish. You guys can take it here. I am gracefully bowing out. The Warriors about to come on

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the
Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China,
and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks,such as
Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those
shores.

My guy your whole argument revolves around the word "black" when it's been pointed out to you over and over again that it means nothing in the eras being discussed. The quote above is proof of that. Indians are not black just because they have dark skin, neither are people from sri lanka (ceylon) and neither were the Arabs.

And regarding the sabeans, why don't you try googling middle eastern populations related to them like the mandaens and try saying they are black people with a straight face.

 

[Dzali OG]

What I gather from history is that the Hebrew Israelite may have a point. There were a large tribe of black people that everyone else from time to time fronted on .

I'm going to give everyone something to chew on: The history is confused because many things are actually from other "creations" of man...the best I can word it right now. Such as the great pyramids...no one can really lay claim to having created them.

They're from a time a million years ago when black people were really different and advanced. Before the great war which caused a need for the earth to be replenished. The war between blacks and whites...or at least would become whites.

Afterwards, blacks rejected the sciences and returned to simpler living. Whites, the descendants of the people we warred with sulked in Russia until they again began migrating south. The cycle begins again, as it has before.

You're going to ask for evidence and peer-reviewed documents...lol...many fools fall under that control. Simply ask, who controls science and the peer review process? Akin to expecting the police to police themselves.

A train was run on black people. It has been effectively covered up with the destruction of books, the killing of elders, the killing of entire tribes, etc. Even reading available literature you can conclude this, the hints are there.

This train made everyone else run to distinguish themselves from "that" tribe of black people. Even other Africans and blacks were on some, "Yeah I'm black but I'm not "those" blacks".

Hadn't really been with them Hebrew brothers, but I may need to read more...

 

[Swagnificent]

My guy your whole argument revolves around the word "black" when it's been pointed out to you over and over again that it means nothing in the eras being discussed. The quote above is proof of that. Indians are not black just because they have dark skin, neither are people from sri lanka (ceylon) and neither were the Arabs.

And regarding the sabeans, why don't you try googling middle eastern populations related to them like the mandaens and try saying they are black people with a straight face.

how come? unless you are also already supposing an a-priori definition of what "black" is.

I personally don't find much separating the dravidians of india from ethiopians.




which continent is this girl from? you only get one guess.

 

[Swagnificent]

was just watching E:60 piece on Sepp Blatter when this nikka came on. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/01/mohamed-bin-hammam-timeline

apparently he's some super rich Qatari dude. read his wikipedia page. no mention of him being descended from ethiopians or sudanese. he's from one of the native qatari tribes. looks like we're looking at one of the few real arabs left.

 

[Swagnificent]

man @GetInTheTruck took a butt-whooping in this thread.

good times.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

man @GetInTheTruck took a butt-whooping in this thread.

good times.

this thread was pure smartdumbology.

 

[satam55]

here is how europeans in the 1600s viewed Saladin (one of the greatest warriors in Islamic history): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_of...ns-_King_Guy_of_Lusignan_and_King_Saladin.tif

FYI...Saladin is the black guy in green while the white man in red is a European.


the early muslims/arabs were black.

@Swagnificent I remember Saladin from the 2005 movie "Kingdom of Heaven". Was he a Moor?

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

White people can give birth to white children and albinos too, so what?

Contrary to what you have been informed, white people do have melanin, they just have less of it.

This response made autism sense only.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

This response made autism sense only.

You think whites have zero melanin?