Zoe Saldana Getting Clowned For Trying To Play Nina Simone

[Blackout]

@Barnett114

Obama aged fast too when he had to c00n while being president

 

[CinnaSlim]

I feel like there is a struggle here in this thread when it comes to context.
Yes, I am familiar with the Moors. And the different terms for black.

In the context of Nina Simone and how Americans use the term "black features" it comes from early "anthropologists" Christoph Meiners and Johann Blumenbach who created or at least published a racial hierarchy based on that Meiners deemed was physically attractive. They created 5 races: White/Caucasians, Black/Ethiopians, Yellow/Mongolians, Red/Americanoids, and Brown/Malays.

Yes, we know (at least those of us who have done the research) that Africans are the most diverse people, so there isn't really an African feature. However, "black" features were defined by those mentioned above. Even today we guess a person's race by their features. Because race based on phenotype is a social construct. Today, there are ways of telling your ancestry genetically, but the phenotype can be a toss up in some cases.

Like always, people take things to the extreme and look for points of argument. No one is saying that all people of African descent look the same, or that West Africans are true Africans or the ultimate example of blackness.

However, slaves were taken from West Africa to the New World and that is where people got their idea of "blackness". A ton of black people in America dont even know that black people can have wavy hair or light skin naturally, instead their automatic assumption is mixed with something.

When it comes to racism the ideas come from men like Meiners and Blumenbach. The stereotypes were based on men's publications from that era, like phreneology. Thus discrimination is based on their ideas which we know today is very false.

 

[CinnaSlim]

@Barnett114

Obama aged fast too when he had to c00n while being president

All the presidents age faster lol. It's a stressful job.

 

[Yehuda]

@Barnett114

Obama aged fast too when he had to c00n while being president

It's the cac genes.

 

[Poitier]

However, slaves were taken from West Africa to the New World and that is where people got their idea of "blackness".

Do you know how diverse WA and the slaves that captured were?

 

[Stacker Pentecost]

So people are gonna ignore the racist society that Nina Simone lived in? That we live in today? Are we ignoring that colorism is a thing?

In America, there is a "black" look. Because ignorant ass racists, created propaganda defining black features as dark, big and broad and masculine or savage like. Beauty was considered a sign of a more advanced race, so were considered sub-human because they considered those features ugly.

So yes, people who held those features, were looked at worse than those closer to the ideal white spectrum.

So, while Horners may be light skin, slim nosed and wavy hair. They would be considered closer to white, not literally or genetically, but based on the culture in America. But they general public, (white folks) didnt care and didnt know about the diversity or history of Africa.

There's a reason why those features were used in minstrel shows and propaganda to identify black folks.
(Around 1 minute mark)

They're ignoring the fukk out of this shyt and acting like everything we're talking about exists within some kind of vacuum where colorism doesn't exist

 

[CinnaSlim]

Do you know how diverse WA and the slaves that captured were?

Yes.

 

[Poitier]

They're ignoring the fukk out of this shyt and acting like everything we're talking about exists within some kind of vacuum where colorism doesn't exist

You don't fight colorism by making Blackness a 1 dimensional scale.

 

[Stacker Pentecost]

The past casts it's shadow on the present. It is not seperate from today. The point is not to perpetuate those ideas. We are not calling Nina Simone stupid, savage or ugly. She was a beautiful and intelligent, talented woman.

The point is to correct those ideas. Her "blackness" in the traditional sense, IS BEAUTIFUL. Remember, Africans weren't calling eachother black. Africans are from their tribe/nation first. The white man created this idea of race and the dichotomy of Black/White.

The white man said features opposite of the ideal white beauty were ugly. We are saying no, they are not. How is that perpetuating it?

It's like we are saying DarkGirlsMatter and people in here are saying well what about All Black Girls? This is what every conversation about colorism and featurism turns into.
I understand not everyone fits neatly in a box, but understand there are levels to this shyt. You are looking for stuff to argue about.

 

[CinnaSlim]

They're ignoring the fukk out of this shyt and acting like everything we're talking about exists within some kind of vacuum where colorism doesn't exist

That's the coli. People pick and choose what they want to recieve instead of looking for connections and the big picture. They would rather zero in on a single detail that helps with their argument.

 

[Stacker Pentecost]

No. I merely pointed out where people get the idea of "black" features. Notice they tend to say "black" features as opposed to African features.
If only you would follow a conversation instead of searching for points to debate. Where do you think the White beauty standard comes from? Why do you think someone called Iman a white woman dipped in chocolate when she is Somali? Because those features are considered '"white", and thus beautiful, while Nina's features are considered "black" and thus ugly.

The idea of race is not based on genealogy but phenotype.

You have the patience of a saint, trying to break this shyt down to the WILLFULLY ignorant.

 

[Stacker Pentecost]

Im not

That aint similar

People really trying to argue that Zoe doesn't fit into a Eurocentric standard of beauty as opposed to Nina, whose life work was around NOT fitting into that standard. The levels of disrespect to Nina are out of this world.

 

[Poitier]

Yes.

Obviously not given the post.

 

[Stacker Pentecost]

That's the coli. People pick and choose what they want to recieve instead of looking for connections and the big picture. They would rather zero in on a single detail that helps with their argument.

They're not critically thinking at all. "Oh so y'all are saying all Black people are supposed to look a certain way?!" No we're saying NINA looked a certain way that wasn't seen as *classically beautiful* aka Eurocentric/Anglicized (see also Viola Davis, for example: Viola Davis Calls Out New York Times' 'Classic Beauty' Remark During People's Choice Speech) and that her activism and artistry revolved around bucking those Eurocentric standards of beauty. And it's a slap in the face to pick someone that firmly fits within that standard and try to alter her appearance.

I REALLY don't understand what there is to argue about. Like... At all. People trying to argue that colorism doesn't exist? That Eurocentric standards of beauty don't exist? Can Black people have those features naturally? Yes... Does that mean they magically don't fit into a Eurocentric standard of beauty? NO!

EDIT: And there's nothing wrong with fitting into that standard, you can't control what features you were born with, but we all know certain features are seen as pretty and certain features are seen as ugly... Nina was trying to change that, can y'all stop ignoring and spitting on this woman's legacy with the fallacies and bullshyt PLEASE.

How intellectually dishonest can y'all be

 

[CinnaSlim]

Obviously not given the post.

If it was so obvious, why did you ask? (/rhetorical question)