Yahoo Sports: “A closer look at MJ’s 1988 DPOY raises questions about its validity”

[Professor Emeritus]

(2) Led the league in steals. And became the only player to have 200+ steals and 100+ blocks in a season, tying his record from the previous season

(3) Had 131 blocks. No guard in NBA history has ever even come close to this. He had more blocks than 17 starting Centers

LOL at you using the already-discredited fake stats as half your argument. Did you not even read the OP?

The Bulls were

1st in fewest points allowed per game -- Despite having no other great defensive player of note on the team. FACTS

3rd in defensive rating

2009 Cavs were also #1 in scoring defense and #3 in defensive rating without any other great defensive player. Let's compare actual lineups for defense. Who was the better defender?

John Paxson vs. Mo Williams: Advantage Chicago
Charles Oakley vs. Anderson Varejao: Advantage Chicago
Dave Corzine vs. washed Zydrunas Iglauskas: Advantage Chicago
Scottie Pippen vs. Delonte West: Advantage Chicago
Brad Sellers vs. Wally Szczerbiak: Advantage Chicago
Young Horace Grant vs. Washed Ben Wallace: Push
Rory Sparrow vs. Daniel Gibson: Advantage Chicago


You spent all that time bytching about the weakness of MJ's supporting case, when Bron's supporting cast in his first 2nd-DPOY season was MUCH worse. Mo/Boobie were the worst two defensive PGs in the entire league. Delonte West was just 6'3" as the second guard when the other guard was only 6'1". Zydrunas was too old and completely immobile in his final season as a starter. Wally was in his final NBA season and was terrible on the defensive end. Varejao was the best defender in the lineup other than Bron, but he was too slow to guard mobile 4's and too skinny to guard powerful 5's, so he only worked against "traditional" 4s and small 5s. 35yo Ben Wallace could defend certain players but was almost unplayable at that point, after missing 30 games in the regular season they only played him 12 minutes/game in the playoffs.

Oakley, Pippen, and Grant were all very good defenders, along with MJ that's half of the top 8 guys being elite on that end. Corzine was solid for that era, Paxson, Sellers, and Sparrow were playable if not great. There is nothing wrong with that '88 lineup defensively.

 

[fifth column]

Except they can't, because, as the article notes, the NBA cracked down on "home cooking" for stats a long time ago.







But stats are literally the reason why he won DPOY. He campaigned for DPOY explicitly on stats from before the season even started.






You do realize this guy has nothing to do with Klutch and has other articles calling Jordan the GOAT? The tinfoil response to any criticism whatsoever of Jordan is wild, especially considering how big of a boost Jordan got from Nike, ESPN, and the NBA itself over this entire career. MJ's image has benefitted from FAR more media/advertizing/pundit help than any other athlete in history.

Maybe MJ’s image benefited from how he played basketball? His style of play is what “it” looks like.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Maybe MJ’s image benefited from how he played basketball? His style of play is what “it” looks like.

His style of play when he came into the league was nothing like his style of play in the '95-'98 run. And yet he was already working with an individual Nike deal (which his team negotiated to be the first specifically player-focused ad campaign in shoe history) before his rookie season had even started. Before then, ad campaigns had always focused on the shoe. Jordan's team got Nike to agree to focus their campaign on the player rather than the shoe, which turned out to be a huge win for both of them.

 

[Bryan Danielson]

Can’t say “but a CAC said it”








#TheTruth

 

[JasoRockStar]

LOL at you using the already-discredited fake stats as half your argument. Did you not even read the OP?

No, he clearly didn’t and the same is true for the rest of the angry folks in this thread too. Didn’t even read the article but they’re trying to say that it’s filled with lies.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

This is getting sick.... LeBron will never be Jordan. That argument is closed. It's over. Just stop already... Enjoy the last year of LeBron's career. He had a good one.

 

[NYC Rebel]

This is getting sick.... LeBron will never be Jordan. That argument is closed. It's over. Just stop already... Enjoy the last year of LeBron's career. He had a good one.

Thats fine, but this was some serious home cooking. 88 was a wild year. Stern decided he had to make MJ THE show that year and play catch up to Nike who were already doing a better job than the NBA of making the game global.

It was the smart move but obvious

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Thats fine, but this was some serious home cooking. 88 was a wild year. Stern decided he had to make MJ THE show that year and play catch up to Nike who were already doing a better job than the NBA of making the game global.

It was the smart move but obvious

I'm sure he did receive some home cooking but the Chicago defense was elite for several years and it wasn't just because of Pippen. the '87-88 Bulls were ranked 3rd in defense in the league... someone was out there playing defense

 

[NYC Rebel]

Been telling yall for YEARS.
What I didn’t know was that it was a every Bulls home game thing as I didn’t live in Chicago. But I saw that shyt that entire weekend and called that shyt out in real time.

 

[barese]

From february:

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I'm sure he did receive some home cooking but the Chicago defense was elite for several years and it wasn't just because of Pippen. the '87-88 Bulls were ranked 3rd in defense in the league... someone was out there playing defense

The Bulls defense was DEFINITELY one of the best, and Jordan was a part of that. Pippen obviously played a role in that. Oakley was a part of that too, then Grant took that spot over from him, and later Rodman held that part down. And they always had at least one decent center with size (first Corzine, then Perdue, then Longley).

When you have several very good defenders like the Bulls did, it isn't necessary for any single one of them to have a DPOY-level impact. Back in that era, having three elite defenders (a guard, a swing, and a big) plus a center filling his role was enough.

The Cavs defense was almost as good as the Bulls defense that year, and who did they have? Brad Daughtery, Hot Rod Williams, Ron Harper, Phil Hubbard, and Mark Price. Mark West and Craig Ehlo as the first guys off the bench. No MJ or Pippen level players, yet their defensive rating was almost the same as the Bulls. So the fact that the Bulls' defense

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

The Bulls defense was DEFINITELY one of the best, and Jordan was a part of that.

We agree. So why are we acting like it's a big deal he won the DPOY award. How many other awards over the course of history are more egregious than the result here? Malone as the MVP of the league over Jordan is way more egregious.

 

[NYC Rebel]

We agree. So why are we acting like it's a big deal he won the DPOY award. How many other awards over the course of history are more egregious than the result here? Malone as the MVP of the league over Jordan is way more egregious.

No it wasnt. Bruh….I literally saw the outright rigging which looked like an executive decision was made by the league powers to hand over keys by any means necessary to its new star.

Sorry….Malone’s MVP does not touch what we saw in 88. Not even close.

Lets stop trying to liberalize what took place that season. Yall doing too much trying to make this shyt a repetitive norm

 

[Professor Emeritus]

We agree. So why are we acting like it's a big deal he won the DPOY award.

Because being a factor on a great defense isn't enough to justify DPOY. Utah had a significantly better defense than the Bulls that year, and five other teams were about as good (Pistons, Rockets, Cavs, Nuggets, and Knicks). Out of those squads, you had guys like Hakeem whose defensive impact was MUCH bigger than Jordan's was, a few other guys who were also definitely better (Mark Eaton, Patrick Ewing, John Salley), and then a number of players who were at a similar level (Fat Lever, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Oakley, Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman).

Being one of the best defenders on a good defensive team isn't enough to justify DPOY, because there's a lots of guys like that. MJ had a great case for 2nd-team All-Defensive - between MJ, Michael Cooper, Alvin Robertson, Fat Lever, John Stockton, Maurice Cheeks, and Nate McMillan, you have 7 very good defensive guards fighting for 4 spots,. And I don't think you can really justify putting him over Cooper and Robertson, so he's fighting with Lever, Cheeks, and Stockton for those second-team slots. He didn't have the impact of a Dream or a Ewing or an Eaton, or later winners like Rodman.

How many other awards over the course of history are more egregious than the result here?

It was egregious because it took blatant cheating from the home team statkeeper, in addition to MJ openly chasing defensive stats, for it to happen.

Malone as the MVP of the league over Jordan is way more egregious.

The year Malone won MVP, he was by FAR the best player on a 64-win team. 27-10-5 on 55% shooting while making 1st-team All-Defensive as the best defensive big on his squad, while MJ was 30-6-4 on 49% and was guarding the weakest offensive option on the opposing team. All the advanced stats favored MJ that year, but only slightly - Malone was just behind him in every one.


I think that Jordan "should" have won MVP in 1997, he was the more valuable player and Malone got it mostly due to MVP fatigue since they'd already given MJ four of them (same shyt happened to Bron). But they were neck-and-neck. That's nothing like the 1988 DPOY, where Jordan was nowhere near the impact of someone like Hakeem, but one it anyway due to blatant stat-padding and scorekeeper cheating.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Back in this thread to say once again how stupid this stuff is.

In 25 years, if people care enough they can do the same for alot of Lebron's stats. Stats don't matter.

Wnat matters is who won, who lost. Jordan 6 finals 6 wins, Lebron multiple finals losses and two finals sweeps. The sweeps are more damning because we saw an underdog Dallas steal a game this year and we say a Miami Heat missing their #2 and #3 option avoid a sweep 4 years ago.

My point being is, Klutch and co. can go in the archives and dig up what they want, nothing will change the fact that LeBron is a quitter and one of the biggest false images in sports.

No they won’t. The league didn’t outright shift for Bron or any player like I witnessed in 88. That shyt was egregious and your Bron issues are personal.