MartyMcFly

What's up doc, can we rock?
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
59,888
Reputation
9,180
Daps
161,012
Reppin
P.G. County
Interesting comparison with Vulture, I wished MS should've played closer to his original comic origins but Keaton deserves 99 percent that, dude was great.


Honestly, making mystique the focal point of the x-men is a shytty adaptation to me:yeshrug:They've been making films since 2000 and have just been retreading xavier/magneto/wolverine for the most part.

Thats fair. I feel that. It doesn’t bother me but I get it. I guess it’s how I feel about rami focusing Spider-Man around peter mj and Harry
 

BuddahMAC

Superstar
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
3,419
Reputation
2,350
Daps
14,159
Reppin
NULL
Real question and I’m not doing the typical internet thing and not being sincere: aren’t the X-Men allowed to be adapted like other comic books or is that just not a thing a lot of X-Men fans are cool with? Cause focusing on magneto, professor x, and mystique isn’t a thing for me but I get it is for other fans so is there something wrong with that adaption or no? Most all comic book movies are adaptations of stories and characters not 1:1 retreads. Even Logan.

Or is it just the manner of the adaptation some have an issue with?

The problem with adapting X-Men is twofold.

First, there's the issue of the stories themselves. Take Dark Phoenix.

Claremont would weave background storylines throughout years of main plot only to have it pay off incredibly at the end. Jean Grey's becoming Phoenix and her slow corruption into Dark Phoenix was a slow build from issue 100-138 (1976-1980). For the second time now, they're trying to tell a version of that story in a single film. The reason the story works so well is book form is it's gradual nature and the fact it's based on character building. Phoenix slowly surprising everyone and herself with her building power, the newness and unfamiliarity of that power leaving herself open to corruption, that corruption building issue after issue and, even when she's able to break free, the damage being done. They keep wanting the spectacle and built in drama and tragedy of that story but they don't want to earn it through character & story. In X3, the Phoenix was just Jean's suppressed power/split personality who breaks through to randomly kill people for no reason and stand next to Magneto doing nothing for a huge chunk of film. In this film, we're going to take Sansa Grey, whose screen time in Apocalypse was a lil Scott flirting, a cut scene mall trip, Wolvey cameo & "oh wait, let me do bird stuff for no reason" at the end. They haven't built enough of a character to make any corruption mean anything in this new film.

Now I know they're making this film flash-forward to the 90s, so I'm sure there'll be a bunch of exposition about how central Jean is to the team and how her and Scott's relationship has grown over the past decade to tell everyone how dramatic and heartbreaking this all is, but it's all shortcuts to get to this spectacle of Phoenix wrecking shyt and the drama of X-Men vs one of their own. X3 shows how hollow and awful that exact story treated wrongly be and I'm afraid they're doing it again. It's a story that lends itself to serialization and lends itself better to book or TV. If you want to make it filmic, this should be your culmination of a series of movies that you have built to within the writing of the previous films. Not toss a CGI bird in a lake in X2 or surround her with birdfire in a battle and suddenly it's Dark Phoenix time.

Secondly, it's the way Fox has treated characters.

To Fox's credit, they do tend to cast well overall. They mostly get good actors but the characters they pick are mainly due to what powers they want to see on screen & who serves the plot. They use Mystique & Sabertooth in X1 to be basically Mag's henchmen. Book Mystique is a complicated character who reforms & leads the Brotherhood for her own ends and eventually finagles them into getting a government check & first series of X films she's a mostly silent shape-changing spy. The second series of X films she's basically Xavier's adopted sister, then a spy assassin (most of that happening between films and the film itself is everyone trying to convince her not to be that), then an underground freedom fighter (which, again, mostly happens between films and they spend the film trying to get her to join the team). Book Sabertooth is a cold blooded killer with a complicated past & a long history with Wolverine and in the movie he's Mag's muscle. Rogue is a scared face & plot device for 3 flicks, Storm is one of the best female characters in comics history & they can't get her right And so on...

To give examples of proper adaptations, look at Deadpool & Colossus in Deadpool, Logan in Logan & Legion in Legion. None of those are to any degree "comic-accurate". All are adaptations that take license with character to tell their own, updated stories but they stay true to the essence of these character. The main X movies to date have constantly undermined the core of these characters and what makes them compelling to just throw a bunch of random people & powers around the only characters allowed to have full arcs: Chuck, Erik & Logan.
 

MartyMcFly

What's up doc, can we rock?
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
59,888
Reputation
9,180
Daps
161,012
Reppin
P.G. County
The problem with adapting X-Men is twofold.

First, there's the issue of the stories themselves. Take Dark Phoenix.

Claremont would weave background storylines throughout years of main plot only to have it pay off incredibly at the end. Jean Grey's becoming Phoenix and her slow corruption into Dark Phoenix was a slow build from issue 100-138 (1976-1980). For the second time now, they're trying to tell a version of that story in a single film. The reason the story works so well is book form is it's gradual nature and the fact it's based on character building. Phoenix slowly surprising everyone and herself with her building power, the newness and unfamiliarity of that power leaving herself open to corruption, that corruption building issue after issue and, even when she's able to break free, the damage being done. They keep wanting the spectacle and built in drama and tragedy of that story but they don't want to earn it through character & story. In X3, the Phoenix was just Jean's suppressed power/split personality who breaks through to randomly kill people for no reason and stand next to Magneto doing nothing for a huge chunk of film. In this film, we're going to take Sansa Grey, whose screen time in Apocalypse was a lil Scott flirting, a cut scene mall trip, Wolvey cameo & "oh wait, let me do bird stuff for no reason" at the end. They haven't built enough of a character to make any corruption mean anything in this new film.

Now I know they're making this film flash-forward to the 90s, so I'm sure there'll be a bunch of exposition about how central Jean is to the team and how her and Scott's relationship has grown over the past decade to tell everyone how dramatic and heartbreaking this all is, but it's all shortcuts to get to this spectacle of Phoenix wrecking shyt and the drama of X-Men vs one of their own. X3 shows how hollow and awful that exact story treated wrongly be and I'm afraid they're doing it again. It's a story that lends itself to serialization and lends itself better to book or TV. If you want to make it filmic, this should be your culmination of a series of movies that you have built to within the writing of the previous films. Not toss a CGI bird in a lake in X2 or surround her with birdfire in a battle and suddenly it's Dark Phoenix time.

Secondly, it's the way Fox has treated characters.

To Fox's credit, they do tend to cast well overall. They mostly get good actors but the characters they pick are mainly due to what powers they want to see on screen & who serves the plot. They use Mystique & Sabertooth in X1 to be basically Mag's henchmen. Book Mystique is a complicated character who reforms & leads the Brotherhood for her own ends and eventually finagles them into getting a government check & first series of X films she's a mostly silent shape-changing spy. The second series of X films she's basically Xavier's adopted sister, then a spy assassin (most of that happening between films and the film itself is everyone trying to convince her not to be that), then an underground freedom fighter (which, again, mostly happens between films and they spend the film trying to get her to join the team). Book Sabertooth is a cold blooded killer with a complicated past & a long history with Wolverine and in the movie he's Mag's muscle. Rogue is a scared face & plot device for 3 flicks, Storm is one of the best female characters in comics history & they can't get her right And so on...

To give examples of proper adaptations, look at Deadpool & Colossus in Deadpool, Logan in Logan & Legion in Legion. None of those are to any degree "comic-accurate". All are adaptations that take license with character to tell their own, updated stories but they stay true to the essence of these character. The main X movies to date have constantly undermined the core of these characters and what makes them compelling to just throw a bunch of random people & powers around the only characters allowed to have full arcs: Chuck, Erik & Logan.

I’d say th miss on some characters but not all. Magneto and professor x and Wolverine and the ones you mentioned are spot on. As was the first night crawler and both iterations oh beast. Cyclops started strong but ended with a whimper. Same with jean. But that’s it. And even with that the movies almost always understand the core principles of X-Men and relate it to the world we live in now which is more than I can say for a lot of some current X-Men runs.

But again we can make this argument about a litany if conic adaptations. Batman is one of the smartest men in comics but his movies make him marginally intelligent. Tony Starks is more Robert Downey persona than Tony. Same with black widow and ruffalos hulk. And then there’s the liberties everyone has taken with Spider-Man and the characters in his world.

For the most part we all seem okay with these things. Obviously we don’t all agree but these changes and iterations seem to be accepted in general.
 

BillBanneker

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
8,777
Reputation
655
Daps
19,806
Reppin
NULL
The problem with adapting X-Men is twofold.

First, there's the issue of the stories themselves. Take Dark Phoenix.

Claremont would weave background storylines throughout years of main plot only to have it pay off incredibly at the end. Jean Grey's becoming Phoenix and her slow corruption into Dark Phoenix was a slow build from issue 100-138 (1976-1980). For the second time now, they're trying to tell a version of that story in a single film. The reason the story works so well is book form is it's gradual nature and the fact it's based on character building. Phoenix slowly surprising everyone and herself with her building power, the newness and unfamiliarity of that power leaving herself open to corruption, that corruption building issue after issue and, even when she's able to break free, the damage being done. They keep wanting the spectacle and built in drama and tragedy of that story but they don't want to earn it through character & story.


You really hit it on with this. I couldn't figure out why they want to revisit the Dark Phoenix saga again but bolded makes to most sense.:ohhh:
 

hostsamurai

Demon King Of Salvation
Supporter
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
4,685
Reputation
8,885
Daps
22,887
Reppin
London
You really hit it on with this. I couldn't figure out why they want to revisit the Dark Phoenix saga again but bolded makes to most sense.:ohhh:
I mean, they did a decent job of build up in X-men and X2 but then they gave a shytty script to an atrocious sexual predator director whose only good film was Rush Hour 2 way back in 2001.
 

Luke Cage

Coffee Lover
Supporter
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
48,080
Reputation
17,419
Daps
247,878
Reppin
Harlem
I understand the idea that the higher the profile the worse fan reaction is. Completely get that. It doesn’t bother me when it’s within character and within the realm of that universe but I’m cool with it.

And yeah the mystique thing doesn’t bother me so I can’t speak on it but I feel that even if it doesnt bother me


And I could say the same for a litany of things. Vultures backstory was already interesting and taking away his scientist background and making him Walter white or Tony soprano wasn’t the character I read about or even necessarily what I wanted to see on first blush. But it worked (for me anyway) and it made sense for the world they created and felt logical. Even if that Adrian Toomes didn’t bear much resemblance to the Adrian toomes of the comics.

And also I don’t think this X-Men adaptation is shytty. They’ve made three movies I can’t fukk with and that’s x3, that first wolverine movie and apocalypse. Other than that I’m good with everything we’ve gotten.
I think the problem with the Mystique character in their execution of her is in the nature of her powers.
She's a shapeshifter, which means her ability is literally to decieve others. It doesn't really make sense to try to twist that into something heroic. A heroic deciever? It would've made more sense to treat her like Loki.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
3,156
Reputation
1,905
Daps
12,684
Reppin
NULL
PmOposs.jpg


Here's a set photo showing off the yellow and blue costumes. Reminds me of Grant Morrison, actually. :obama:

512Xw6m4MaL._SX323_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
Top