WSJ: Patrick Mahomes has kept an entire generation of Quarterbacks from winning a Superbowl.

[murksiderock]

That article is OD. Mahomes is certainly dominating the sport, but you can't give him credit for ending Luck's career, come on ...

The other thing the article should have mentioned is that all the great QBs in today's game, besides Dak and Goff, came in as starters after Mahomes, or lost significant time due to injury, or both:

•Herbert, 3 drafts after Mahomes;
•Stroud, only in his second year;
•Purdy, just finished only his 3rd season;
•Hurts, became a full-time starter in '21, Mahomes had already played in half his SBs by then;
•Mahomes beating the 2020 version of Baker Mayfield, come on now. That version of Baker wasn't an elite QB and nobody back then was like, "man he beat Baker"----->Baker just ascended to elite status last two years in TB;
•Burrow is three drafts after Mahomes and has had two injury years, and he's the only guy alive in The League today to have beaten him;
•Lamar lost two years to injury. In his four healthy seasons, one was his rookie year in which he didn't start until halfway thru----->and in his other 3 healthy seasons he's been MVP and only played Mahomes once;

Point being, this article is kinda dishonest. Most these guys have never played Mahomes more than once, are significantly younger than him, or have lost years to injury, or were late bloomers...

Mahomes to this point has been lifted with incredible health and being older in the game than all these guys. He's dominated from a winning standpoint, and his talent and production isn't lower than anyone else's, but almost everybody else has less time in the game than he's had. It won't last forever...

 

[BucciMane]

Takes like this have always been dumb

If the Billls squib kick, 13 seconds doesn't happen

If Steffon Diggs catches that deep ball and Bass makes the field goal, etc..

Point is Mahomes is great but the margins have been close and he's not even outplaying Allen in their recent matchups


I think Brady is the GOAT but let's be real, even Brady didn't prevent other QBs from getting there's.

Peyton still had his chances before Brady and during Brady (2005, 2009, 2012, 2013)

Exactly.

I don't think there should be any question that the QB is the most important position in the NFL and has the biggest impact on a teams performance. However, QB's get all the credit and all the blame when there are ten other players out there on offense and eleven on defense.

When I was younger, I used to be the person posting about Brady v.s. Manning/Rodgers and posting all of the individual statistics and head to head match-ups, but when you look at the game objectively, it's a complete team effort. I've been very pro BeliGOAT for years now (not anti-Brady) as people just suck Brady off and don't give the rest of those teams the credit they deserve.

Mahomes has been sensational and I am going to guess he'll have another great playoff run with the Chiefs winning it all. With that said, it's a team game a matter of inches and little breaks here and there. He could have easily had two or three more losses this year, just like he could have another Super Bowl appearance and possible Super Bowl Championship if the Chiefs defense didn't line up offside.

 

[BucciMane]

I used to have every statistic and playoff game that Peyton Manning was in, always ready to put my foot on the necks of those that hated the Patriots. Those were the days..

 

[Copy Ninja]

Takes like this have always been dumb

If the Billls squib kick, 13 seconds doesn't happen

If Steffon Diggs catches that deep ball and Bass makes the field goal, etc..

Point is Mahomes is great but the margins have been close and he's not even outplaying Allen in their recent matchups


I think Brady is the GOAT but let's be real, even Brady didn't prevent other QBs from getting there's.

Peyton still had his chances before Brady and during Brady (2005, 2009, 2012, 2013)

Yeah agree with all this. As critical as QB play is and I think it's the most important position, one dumbass play by a special teamer, DB, OL, etc. at the wrong time can ruin a game for a team.

You can look back at those Patriots runs and as clutch as they were, a lot of times they got the upper hand because they didn't beat themselves and other teams always made mistakes.

 

[BucciMane]

Yeah agree with all this. As critical as QB play is and I think it's the most important position, one dumbass play by a special teamer, DB, OL, etc. at the wrong time can ruin a game for a team.

You can look back at those Patriots runs and as clutch as they were, a lot of times they got the upper hand because they didn't beat themselves and other teams always made mistakes.

Exactly.

All it takes is one play as well. The Chiefs being offside, the whistle being blown on the Jaguars fumble recovery in the playoffs, the Troy Brown play against the Chargers, and other helped the Patriots win big games.


The tuck rule too..


@Trojan 24 @2Quik4UHoes .

 

[Copy Ninja]

Exactly.

All it takes is one play as well. The Chiefs being offside, the whistle being blown on the Jaguars fumble recovery in the playoffs, the Troy Brown play against the Chargers, and other helped the Patriots win big games.


The tuck rule too..


@Trojan 24 @2Quik4UHoes .

Minimum that's 3 SBs games they should not have played in if those teams were more disciplined.

In SB games there's the Pete Carroll call to pass at the 1 yard line, the Panthers kicker kicking the ball out of bounds during a kickoff that set up the game winning FG, Falcons passing the ball when there were in easy FG range to seal the game.

 

[SchoolboyC]

I will say, the way the media has increasingly started talking about NFL quarterbacks like NBA stars like they single handedly decide games is nasty work

It’s always been there to a degree but over the last year or two feels like it’s been ratcheted up

 

[Copy Ninja]

I will say, the way the media has increasingly started talking about NFL quarterbacks like NBA stars like they single handedly decide games is nasty work

It’s always been there to a degree but over the last year or two feels like it’s been ratcheted up

It's been building for a while. The Brady/Manning rivalry coincidentally happened during the rise of the 'debate shows' that are popular now and it fueled the 'who can make the most outlandish take' that are now prevalent.

 

[BucciMane]

I will say, the way the media has increasingly started talking about NFL quarterbacks like NBA stars like they single handedly decide games is nasty work

It’s always been there to a degree but over the last year or two feels like it’s been ratcheted up

QB's and "QB wins" have been the focal point for a while now, but I do agree its amped up in recent years. I think that's for a few reasons.

When Brady was in the league, you still had P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben. All had won Super Bowls by 2011. They had all reached that mountain top. You had young QB's in the league like a Cam Newton and Luck, but that was it in terms of very hyped ones.

Now, you have Mahomes who is essentially today's Brady. The difference is that all of the other great/elite QB's (Or those looked at as real franchise QB's) in the league are relatively young and don't have any Super Bowl victories. You have Lamar, Allen, and Burrow. You can throw in Herbert, Hurts, Stroud, and Love as well. It's a perfect storm for that narrative and talking point.

 

[Dorian Breh]

QB's and "QB wins" have been the focal point for a while now, but I do agree its amped up in recent years. I think that's for a few reasons.

When Brady was in the league, you still had P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben. All had won Super Bowls by 2011. They had all reached that mountain top. You had young QB's in the league like a Cam Newton and Luck, but that was it in terms of very hyped ones.

Now, you have Mahomes who is essentially today's Brady. The difference is that all of the other great/elite QB's (Or those looked at as real franchise QB's) in the league are relatively young and don't have any Super Bowl victories. You have Lamar, Allen, and Burrow. You can throw in Herbert, Hurts, Stroud, and Love as well. It's a perfect storm for that narrative and talking point.

It's quite similar to Stern pushing Kobe as MJs inheritor

Referees fixing playoff games to get Kobe to dynasty status as fast as possible, just like referees fixing playoff games for Mahomes.

Thing is, part of what made the rise of Brady so interesting was its organic nature. He was a late round pick and the league didn't try to make him into a hero as soon as he won his first chip. Only once he (and Beli's spy cameras) had organically become a dynasty did the league back him.

But this time, despite his immense talent its so clear that the league is fully supporting the Mahomes dynasty through the referees, it doesn't give anyone else a chance to slip through the cracks and make their own organic storyline..

 

[premier58]

Exactly.

I don't think there should be any question that the QB is the most important position in the NFL and has the biggest impact on a teams performance. However, QB's get all the credit and all the blame when there are ten other players out there on offense and eleven on defense.

When I was younger, I used to be the person posting about Brady v.s. Manning/Rodgers and posting all of the individual statistics and head to head match-ups, but when you look at the game objectively, it's a complete team effort. I've been very pro BeliGOAT for years now (not anti-Brady) as people just suck Brady off and don't give the rest of those teams the credit they deserve.

Mahomes has been sensational and I am going to guess he'll have another great playoff run with the Chiefs winning it all. With that said, it's a team game a matter of inches and little breaks here and there. He could have easily had two or three more losses this year, just like he could have another Super Bowl appearance and possible Super Bowl Championship if the Chiefs defense didn't line up offside.

I see you still taking your little potshots at Brady. Ignoring the fact that for over a decade, the media pushed the narrative that Belichick could win with anyone and that his team were products of his "system". I guess that doesnt classify as sucking him off, huh??

 

[BucciMane]

I see you still taking your little potshots at Brady. Ignoring the fact that for over a decade, the media pushed the narrative that Belichick could win with anyone and that his team were products of his "system". I guess that doesnt classify as sucking him off, huh??

I think that narrative about Belichick did exist until around 2015. Then after that, it turned the other way in a hurry.

At the end of the day, Belichick can’t win with just any QB and any player off waivers. Just like any Qb can’t do it all on their own. I think the narratives and talking points since Brady won in Tampa Bay have become quite absurd. Not in terms of what Brady has done, but people trying to diminish the impact of Belichick.

 

[premier58]

I think that narrative about Belichick did exist until around 2015. Then after that, it turned the other way in a hurry.

At the end of the day, Belichick can’t win with just any QB and any player off waivers. Just like any Qb can’t do it all on their own. I think the narratives and talking points since Brady won in Tampa Bay have become quite absurd. Not in terms of what Brady has done, but people trying to diminish the impact of Belichick.

You have to admit that the Belichick talk was asinine. The Joe Judge comments about being able to win a SB with any top 15 QB. How about ppl saying that Ty Law would easily be replaced in 2005 by Duane Starks? Law had two great years, elsewhere, while Starks stunk. Not paying Branch before the 06 season, likely cost them a SB. You guys always talk about the immense success, but ignore the missed opportunites. Let Asante go, while the secondary sucked for 3 and a half years. Of course, a QB need a highly competent coach, just like a Coach needs an above avg to good or even geeat, QB. There are outliers, of course. Those points remain generally true.

Belichick got it harshly because he forced Brady out. Starting in 2017. He tried to trade Gronk which forced him into retirement just to get away. If he does trades Gronk to Detroit,.there is no 6th SB. He benches Butler right before SB52. He mismanages the No.1 seed in 2015, costing them HFA. He rests his players in Week 17, when a win wouldve gotten Homefield. After kicking off in OT against the Jets, costing them rhe game. Always trying to be smartest man in the room. He deserves whatever criticism he is subjected to

 

[Flight]

Great article

 

[BucciMane]

You have to admit that the Belichick talk was asinine. The Joe Judge comments about being able to win a SB with any top 15 QB. How about ppl saying that Ty Law would easily be replaced in 2005 by Duane Starks? Law had two great years, elsewhere, while Starks stunk. Not paying Branch before the 06 season, likely cost them a SB. You guys always talk about the immense success, but ignore the missed opportunites. Let Asante go, while the secondary sucked for 3 and a half years. Of course, a QB need a highly competent coach, just like a Coach needs an above avg to good or even geeat, QB. There are outliers, of course. Those points remain generally true.

Belichick got it harshly because he forced Brady out. Starting in 2017. He tried to trade Gronk which forced him into retirement just to get away. If he does trades Gronk to Detroit,.there is no 6th SB. He benches Butler right before SB52. He mismanages the No.1 seed in 2015, costing them HFA. He rests his players in Week 17, when a win wouldve gotten Homefield. After kicking off in OT against the Jets, costing them rhe game. Always trying to be smartest man in the room. He deserves whatever criticism he is subjected to

Belichick was/is not perfect and I don't agree with everything he has done. I do think it's incredibly tough to do what he did for twenty years in a free-agency and salary cap era. I think some of the "smartest man in the room" actions had a lot to do with the salary cap. I'm sure there were also times where maybe ego dictated decisions.

My issue is that people have to often bash one person to prop up another. I respect what Brady did and he is the GOAT. However, I can also acknowledge everything Belichick did without having to say Brady was carried or lucky. We're in the hot take era, unfortunately.