Would you rather have Daniel Bryan/Cesaro/Shield involved in the M.E. or...

[Jmare007]

He doesnt make the best booking decisions but he knows how to make money. Want to back up my claim? Why could Paul E create a captivating wrestling program with little budget while Vince was floundering? He creates good hype where we will watch knowing the product is bad. Thats marketing breh.

No, that's good promoting. Paul E was a horrible promoter.

If you measure it by longevity and money made, yes he absolutely is. He is the funnel the directs the fukkery that goes on this is true. But there is a reason why he hates guys like Foley and JR. They simply get the business of wrestling a lot better than he does. I take nothing away from Vince's success at all. But I understand why he makes a lot of the boneheaded moves he makes and its because of what I mentioned before.

He makes boneheaded moves because he's old as fukk, snorts coke like a madman and because he's made millions of dollars thinking the way he does. He grew up in a territory were big dudes were the norm and made the most money for his pops and were the babyface champion would take on a new villain every couple of months (the Attitude Era was his exception, not the norm).

He doesn't see wrestling as guys like JR, Heyman or even Cornette see it because he's made a shyt ton of money thinking the other way around. But that doesn't take away the fact that he's still the GOAT wrestling promoter, he just sees it differently.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

If certain part timers never came back, the WWE would be seen as just a kids program and be a laughing stock in history.

Is it seen as anything but that as is? WWE themselves think the average viewer is 9 years old and they seem to be doing everything they can to reinforce that notion.

Because that's exactly what happened with Jericho and nikkas just complained about it.

Stupid people complained, who cares? Its the right thing to do.

 

[AquaCityBoy]

Is it seen as anything but that as is? WWE themselves think the average viewer is 9 years old and they seem to be doing everything they can to reinforce that notion.


Stupid people complained, who cares? Its the right thing to do.

Vince does. Because those "stupid people" are probably the ones who have Nielsen boxes and are buying merchandise and pay per views.

Look, I agree with the general consensus that WWE needs to build up its midcard and use the more established guys to put new talent over. The thing is, I'm sure WWE is just as aware of this as any of us, but people clearly aren't responding well to this idea. So, yeah, guys like Bryan, Cesaro, Ziggler, et al are very talented, but the average consumer just want to see the big names.

WWE is very analogous comic books, in particular DC Comics. Sure, they have a lot of interesting characters that are in fantastic books by talented creators, but no matter how hard they try to push them, most people are just buying Batman and Superman. And it's the same thing here. WWE may have a ton of talented guys in its roster, but most people just wanna see Cena and Punk.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

Vince does. Because those "stupid people" are probably the ones who have Nielsen boxes and are buying merchandise and pay per views.

Look, I agree with the general consensus that WWE needs to build up its midcard and use the more established guys to put new talent over. The thing is, I'm sure WWE is just as aware of this as any of us, but people clearly aren't responding well to this idea. So, yeah, guys like Bryan, Cesaro, Ziggler, et al are very talented, but the average consumer just want to see the big names.

WWE is very analogous comic books, in particular DC Comics. Sure, they have a lot of interesting characters that are in fantastic books by talented creators, but no matter how hard they try to push them, most people are just buying Batman and Superman. And it's the same thing here. WWE may have a ton of talented guys in its roster, but most people just wanna see Cena and Punk.

Thats the point, they're NOT pushing them. Look at Ziggler. People act like they've pushed him to the moon and hes just not gotten over. Reality is they have not treated him like a credible threat AT ALL. People want to get behind him but theres no point when he's a comical afterthought. And the same could be said for plenty of others.

This is not a case of the E trying to make new stars and failing so they have to go back to the old guys. They havent even tried, save for Punk, who finally broke through to superstardom. And they even botched that on purpose from what it couldve been.

Constantly pushing the old guard over the new guys might get you a few more buys in the short sell but its ultimately self-destructive, as I said.

 

[AquaCityBoy]

Have they handled everything particularly well? No. Did they fukk up with Ziggler/Bryan/countless others? Absolutely. I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

My point is simply that it's not true that, when it comes to pushing new talent, they "don't get it." They may not handle it well, but do "get it." It's just they have a delicate fanbase that may not be receptive to it. It's not as simple as "push this guy, he gets over, ???, profit." Now, we can go into the times that fans WERE receptive and they dropped the ball, but that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[DANJ!]

Stupid people complained, who cares? Its the right thing to do.

It's the right thing to do but I don't think it should be mandatory, because history has proven that even without winning, just interacting with more established stars can get a person over and make them look like more of a top star, or at least someone who's ready to be one.

And I'll give you a prime example... John Cena. Yeah, everybody complains about him going over everyone now, but nobody seems to remember that when he was getting over as a heel to the point they had to turn him face, he was jobbing to damn near every face on Smackdown. He jobbed to Angle, to Taker, to Lesnar, to Benoit, to Guerrero, all throughout 2003... and if Edge was there, he probably woulda jobbed to him too. But from the way it looks, Cena's career didn't turn out too bad after all. So all this talk about win/loss records means shyt. Also if I recall correctly, Stone Cold's most memorable match that solidified him in WWF is one that he LOST, to someone who had been a top star for years and didn't necessarily need the win.

If Ziggler was getting squashed by Tensai in a two-minute match on Raw, I'd worry. Ziggler beating Orton and Cena on two back-to-back PPVs, starting the Rumble at #1 and lasting to the final four, and only losing matches to top stars ain't exactly a job-out like some people have made it out to be.

Established stars should put newer stars over, but if that newer guy is REALLY over, he'll still be over whether he wins or loses.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

It's the right thing to do but I don't think it should be mandatory, because history has proven that even without winning, just interacting with more established stars can get a person over and make them look like more of a top star, or at least someone who's ready to be one.

And I'll give you a prime example... John Cena. Yeah, everybody complains about him going over everyone now, but nobody seems to remember that when he was getting over as a heel to the point they had to turn him face, he was jobbing to damn near every face on Smackdown. He jobbed to Angle, to Taker, to Lesnar, to Benoit, to Guerrero, all throughout 2003... and if Edge was there, he probably woulda jobbed to him too. But from the way it looks, Cena's career didn't turn out too bad after all. So all this talk about win/loss records means shyt. Also if I recall correctly, Stone Cold's most memorable match that solidified him in WWF is one that he LOST, to someone who had been a top star for years and didn't necessarily need the win.

If Ziggler was getting squashed by Tensai in a two-minute match on Raw, I'd worry. Ziggler beating Orton and Cena on two back-to-back PPVs, starting the Rumble at #1 and lasting to the final four, and only losing matches to top stars ain't exactly a job-out like some people have made it out to be.

Established stars should put newer stars over, but if that newer guy is REALLY over, he'll still be over whether he wins or loses.

You're right in that win/loss records don't mean shyt. You can lose and look like a million bucks, or win and look like shyt. It's all about how they're losing. Getting his ass whooped for ten minutes then being carried out makes him look bush league. Cesaro getting dusted off in 3 mins by RKO makes him look like a loser.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

WMG the Gawd

 

[R=G]

Interacting with stars can get someone over if there is a follow through. Who knows how big Hurricane could of gotten in 2003 had Cripple H not squashed him and his push was halted immediately after Rock was gone. One will never know. You can only ponder.

Shelton Benjamin got over...he was damn near the best worker in the WWE in 2005. Outperforming Kliq members weekly, making Blandy look boring as fukk, and was protected. For no reason, out of the blue, around the time Cena came to Raw when you look at it, Benjamin was jobbed to Carlito and then became some loser after he was able to beat Cripple H over and over and over again. After he was able to take Michaels to the limit and only lost because of an aerial mistake, which was smart booking. But after all that time making him work and him getting chants at WM 21, they fukked him over and made him a outright loser. It didn't make sense then. Doesn't make sense now. Well..besides the fact that he was born Black and wasn't Randy Orton enough for the company but that goes without saying.

They've had endless opportunities to make new guys. They didn't. They pushed their chosen few...Batista, Blandy, Sheamus, JBL, Cripple H, and Cena. That's why there's a Rock around carrying the show on his back. That's why they have Lesnar locked up for two years. They don't trust their own talent..they don't even really trust Cena because he was a background maineventer at Mania until the Rock came back and they created an illusion of "Once In a Lifetime" after the 2008 comments.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

I thought we established back on the hamster (via numerous insider articles from former writers) that nothing gets by without the OK from Vince?

So...if this is true then we really have no one to blame but him for

- Ziggler getting buried

- D Bry wasting damn near a year now when the night after Mania proved that he didn't deserve to get squashed for Fella

- Cesaro spinning in circles with that US Title when he should really be in an IC program of some sort.

They're gonna waste the Shield too.