Would Ralph Cifaretto have changed?

[Dave24]

It never occurred to me but that makes perfect sense. I also don't think Ralph started the fire, it was a case of the boy who cried wolf. Tony knew he was a piece of shyt so he automatically suspected him, but ironically Ralph was innocent that time.

Ralph didn't put too much of a defense but that was because he was just too tired and exasperated to kiss Tony's ass anymore.

Have you ever read the book The Sopranos Sessions? David chase is interviewed in it and they go through all the seasons. Iirc chase says ralph did it

 

[Tryna Makit]

Have you ever read the book The Sopranos Sessions? David chase is interviewed in it and they go through all the seasons. Iirc chase says ralph did it

Does he say what happened to Tony in the restaurant?

 

[Dave24]

Does he say what happened to Tony in the restaurant?

https://thewest.com.au/entertainmen...nos-reveals-creator-david-chas-ng-b881576235z

During a discussion with co-authors of The Soprano Sessions Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz, Chase finally dropped the spoiler.

“When you said there was an end point, you don’t mean Tony at Holsten’s (the diner), you just meant, ‘I think I have two more years’ worth of stories left in me,” Sepinwall said.

Chase replied: “Yes, I think I had that death scene around two years before the end … But we didn’t do that.”

Going into further detail, Chase said: “Tony was going to get called to a meeting with Johnny Sack in Manhattan, and he was going to go back through the Lincoln Tunnel for this meeting, and it was going to go black there and you never saw him again as he was heading back, the theory being that something bad happens to him at the meeting. But we didn’t do that.”

Highlighting the faux pas, Zoller Seitz replied : “You realise, of course, that you just referred to that as a death scene.”

“F—k you guys”, Chase said.

The death of Tony Soprano has also been a long argued debated between by fans and even cast members, with the spoiler revealed ahead of the series prequel The Many Saints of Newark set to air March next year.

 

[Francis White]

I also think that he was killed off early because his character wasn't popular with women.

I think the show was trying to appeal more to women in season 4. There was less violence, more family drama, and Carmela had a more active role.

Are you insane ? This is a cable show. Not free tv. They weren’t writing the show on the fly and decided women don’t like Ralph so let’s write him out. That’s stupid. Ralph caused so many problems that it wasn’t only a matter of time before he got killed.
Skimming the esplanade
HUD
Insulting Johnny Sack wife
Dating Janice
As someone said before he was terrible at his job.
Vito was the brains of the crew. He was the real earner. He had his own construction company, not to mention a demolition crew .
Ralph should been killed the first season by GG. He was insulting his captain.

 

[Screwface Exchange]

If The Sopranos has a main theme it's that people never change. They technically could, but hardly anyone ever does because change is very hard.

Ralph was a disturbed individual even for the mob, and killing that girl and her unborn child is probably the worst atrocity we see on the show. He is the last person you would think has a shot at changing.

But many people say suffering is perhaps the only thing that can change a person for the better, and Ralph had plenty of that in his last days.

It seemed like the shock of his son's accident really made Ralph take a good look at himself, possibly for the first time in his life. He realized how badly he treated Rosalie and how he never empathized with her over her son's death. He realized the heinous things he did in his mob life. He realized what a bad father he'd been and agonized over his son's 7th birthday, when he forgot to call him because he was high on coke. He donated that $20k scholarship. He even humbled himself enough to go and talk to the priest.

So, do you think if Justin pulled through Ralphie would have eventually become a better man? What about if Justin took a turn for the worse?

Or do you think that, just like Tony's resolution after his shooting, eventually the high would have worn off and regular mob life would have made him become worse than ever?

What is everyone's opinion?

Bonus question: did Ralph set the fire?

Tony was his own worse enemy, and if he didn't kill off so many of his own soldiers because of his own mental n personal problems it wldnt have been so easy for Phil to murk his crew.

Go back n watch da capo dinner n count how mmay of those guys r still around by the last season.

 

[Francis White]

Tony was his own worse enemy, and if he didn't kill off so many of his own soldiers because of his own mental n personal problems it wldnt have been so easy for Phil to murk his crew.

Go back n watch da capo dinner n count how mmay of those guys r still around by the last season.

I see you only watched YouTube clips and never saw the show. What does this have to do with Ralph?
Tone only killed Ralph and Christopher. Both drugged up liabilities.
Also why would Phill kill Tony’s crew? The plan was to take out management and take over the rest.
Phill was an idiot . He got lucky. Butch and his friend knew it and that’s why they gave him up. He had no respect . Tony had the FBI giving him the heads up and the respect of the other of the five families which is why they left Phill out.

 

[Screwface Exchange]

I see you only watched YouTube clips and never saw the show. What does this have to do with Ralph?
Tone only killed Ralph and Christopher. Both drugged up liabilities.
Also why would Phill kill Tony’s crew? The plan was to take out management and take over the rest.
Phill was an idiot . He got lucky. Butch and his friend knew it and that’s why they gave him up. He had no respect . Tony had the FBI giving him the heads up and the respect of the other of the five families which is why they left Phill out.

I've watched only 3 times full.

Tony killed Ralph because of his own mental problems. His personal connection wit animals the ducks in the pool every yr. Like they were innocent bystanders in everything. Tony and that horse he luved more than his own capos.

In real life when ur a made guy, takin a horses life over a capos is not happening. But Tony's mental insecurities wldnt allow that. Killing a who're stripper is nuthin. U still take ur capos side. Tony didn't. Killed ralphy.

Remember also Ralph was a big earner for Tony as well. U need that big money keep comin in to keep ur guys in line.

Big p*ssy flipped cous needed more cash, was feelin tight. Started dealin h on da side n got busted. Tony wld side on things because of his mental n personal insecurities instead of Goin after da money 2 keep his guys in line n happy more.

Phil took out management his capos u see how few there was by then. Rest all dead, if u tlked about Tony and his seeing a shrink u died. Chris wldve went 2 war for em he died.

Also ur frogetting tony killed his cousin Tony as well. Tony was his own worse enemy that's da whole point of da show, him wit a shrink showing his own insecurities wit his mother from father, jealousy of sister affects his life still to a point he breaks down.

 

[Brozay]

Chris wldve went 2 war for em he died.

Also ur frogetting tony killed his cousin Tony as well. Tony was his own worse enemy that's da whole point of da show, him wit a shrink showing his own insecurities wit his mother from father, jealousy of sister affects his life still to a point he breaks down.

Chris was very self destructive and a wildcard. He was also always letting other things separate himself from the crew. He almost killed Tony in that car wreck (while being drugged up), I think that recklessness was what set Tony over the edge. There was a time Chris would have went to war for Tony, but by season 6, that had obviously changed. He always resented & hated Tony ever since the situation with Ade.

Tony also didnt want to kill his cousin. He did that as a mercy kill to save Tony B from whatever slow death Phil wanted to unleash on him.

As for the thread question - Ralph def burned the stables, they imply that heavily. Also, there is no way he would have changed, he was one of the biggest a$$holes on a show with plenty of them

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Chris was very self destructive and a wildcard. He was also always letting other things separate himself from the crew. He almost killed Tony in that car wreck (while being drugged up), I think that recklessness was what set Tony over the edge. There was a time Chris would have went to war for Tony, but by season 6, that had obviously changed. He always resented & hated Tony ever since the situation with Ade.

Tony also didnt want to kill his cousin. He did that as a mercy kill to save Tony B from whatever slow death Phil wanted to unleash on him.

As for the thread question - Ralph def burned the stables, they imply that heavily. Also, there is no way he would have changed, he was one of the biggest a$$holes on a show with plenty of them

I gotta say I hated the way Chis died. His character was the second male lead of the show, they should have given him a better arc. Maybe they should have written him going into witness protection and snitching and being on the run with Adriana. Still being an addict and just dying partly due to a random car accident was cheap.
On the initial watch I hated Tony and liked Chris but I'm in the middle of my second viewing I am seeing how much of a fukk up Chrs was and how good of a boss Tony was. I still like Chris better but the gap is way smaller. I guess my life during the first viewing I was in my 20s and related to him more, but now that I'm older with more responsibilities I relate to Tony more.

 

[Screwface Exchange]

Chris was very self destructive and a wildcard. He was also always letting other things separate himself from the crew. He almost killed Tony in that car wreck (while being drugged up), I think that recklessness was what set Tony over the edge. There was a time Chris would have went to war for Tony, but by season 6, that had obviously changed. He always resented & hated Tony ever since the situation with Ade.

Tony also didnt want to kill his cousin. He did that as a mercy kill to save Tony B from whatever slow death Phil wanted to unleash on him.

As for the thread question - Ralph def burned the stables, they imply that heavily. Also, there is no way he would have changed, he was one of the biggest a$$holes on a show with plenty of them

Self destructive it's da fukkin mob. U kill and drug ppl for a living what u want perfect honest straight edge citizens.

U gotta be fukked up to carve up ppls body parts n then go home n have dinner wit ur mother and kiss ur kids.

I can tell u a lame in real life n never had 2 fend on da streets dog. Every1 is fukked up outchea tryin 2 Hustle n grind. U ain't meeting no road scholars

When we Goin into battle and a nxt crew want my head. Gimme fukked up Ralph and an unbalance Chrissy to go get after they necks. Shooters in deck always needed.

Tony shldve stuck his head out for his cousin Tony b and show his team he wld go to war to protect his guys. Giving up his own cousin showed them if he cn give up Tony b he can give me up at any time. And u look back n see how poorly Tony treated all his previous capos. No loyalty, gave em all up. That's y was so easy for Phil to take out da rest of da scraps.

Let Phil try that shyt if he had a loayl Tony b Chris n ralphy by his side if Tony had dun rite by Richie aprile n gave em more biz n loot on his release instead dof blocking em from earning at every turn to mk Richie resent him. Wldve had an asset a weapon in Richie instead of an enemy.

 

[Brozay]

I gotta say I hated the way Chis died. His character was the second male lead of the show, they should have given him a better arc. Maybe they should have written him going into witness protection and snitching and being on the run with Adriana. Still being an addict and just dying partly due to a random car accident was cheap.
On the initial watch I hated Tony and liked Chris but I'm in the middle of my second viewing I am seeing how much of a fukk up Chrs was and how good of a boss Tony was. I still like Chris better but the gap is way smaller. I guess my life during the first viewing I was in my 20s and related to him more, but now that I'm older with more responsibilities I relate to Tony more.

thats funny, when I watched originally I was young 20s and Chris was my favorite character - I have 4 episodes left in my rewatch and I realize now how much of a liability he is and can see both sides of Tony better, and how he was the only guy in the NJ crew that could actually lead

I think his death is the next ep for me actually but I will say this - I dont mind his addiction troubles carrying on throughout the series and ultimately what leads to his death. Now that Im a bit older, Ive known people who have struggled with addiction, and its taken years to fix, with many ups & downs along the way, similar to Chris. Also have to take into account how much trauma Chris has in his life, which has to add to his struggle of going back to shooting up often. I wouldnt call the wreck cheap though, it was a culmination of his addiction struggles finally catching up to him to the point of death. Him being high put himself into that position and ultimately led to Tony killing him

Once he killed JT, which I didnt even remember happening until rewatch, its hard to have much sympathy for his death. He became way too much of a liability and Tony knew how much Chris now resented him. It was only a matter of time before Chris did something to put Tonys life (death/arrest) in jeopardy - hell, he could have killed him during that car wreck

 

[Brozay]

Self destructive it's da fukkin mob. U kill and drug ppl for a living what u want perfect honest straight edge citizens.

U gotta be fukked up to carve up ppls body parts n then go home n have dinner wit ur mother and kiss ur kids.

I can tell u a lame in real life n never had 2 fend on da streets dog. Every1 is fukked up outchea tryin 2 Hustle n grind. U ain't meeting no road scholars

When we Goin into battle and a nxt crew want my head. Gimme fukked up Ralph and an unbalance Chrissy to go get after they necks. Shooters in deck always needed.

We arent even talking bout the same things here. Chris was becoming a liability to the point where it could lead to Tony being killed or locked up. He almost kills him in the wreck, and episode before his death he was mouthing off to a civilian about mob business and saying he had enough info to lock the whole crew up (specifically mentioning Ralphs murder and some other shyt that went down)

 

[Francis White]

I've watched only 3 times full.

Tony killed Ralph because of his own mental problems. His personal connection wit animals the ducks in the pool every yr. Like they were innocent bystanders in everything. Tony and that horse he luved more than his own capos.

In real life when ur a made guy, takin a horses life over a capos is not happening. But Tony's mental insecurities wldnt allow that. Killing a who're stripper is nuthin. U still take ur capos side. Tony didn't. Killed ralphy.

Remember also Ralph was a big earner for Tony as well. U need that big money keep comin in to keep ur guys in line.

Big p*ssy flipped cous needed more cash, was feelin tight. Started dealin h on da side n got busted. Tony wld side on things because of his mental n personal insecurities instead of Goin after da money 2 keep his guys in line n happy more.

Phil took out management his capos u see how few there was by then. Rest all dead, if u tlked about Tony and his seeing a shrink u died. Chris wldve went 2 war for em he died.

Also ur frogetting tony killed his cousin Tony as well. Tony was his own worse enemy that's da whole point of da show, him wit a shrink showing his own insecurities wit his mother from father, jealousy of sister affects his life still to a point he breaks down.

Not only are you stupid but mentally handicapped.
His cousin killed a made guy . His cousin was never made , you also omit that Johnny gave Phill the okay to torture him when he was caught. Tony made it quick.
You made up the entire Big p*ssy story . He flipped in 95 before Tony was the boss you retart. Jackie was the acting boss. Jackie warned him about dealing H and said to come to him if he needed money.

You going to deny this scene? Admit it you never watched the show before you sound stupider.
Again it was Vito who the earner , not Ralph. Vito was the richest guy in the entire family. He had more money than Tony. Vito was the brains behind Ralph. Vito had the Columbian connect that he set up Paulie to rob. They netted over a million each.
He had video poker machines in AC. He had a meth connection and he had money in the streets. Tony was willing to give him a pass because he was making so much money. He bought Carmella a porsche, gave her 250k to build the spec house. Got a new boat all under Vito.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

thats funny, when I watched originally I was young 20s and Chris was my favorite character - I have 4 episodes left in my rewatch and I realize now how much of a liability he is and can see both sides of Tony better, and how he was the only guy in the NJ crew that could actually lead

I think his death is the next ep for me actually but I will say this - I dont mind his addiction troubles carrying on throughout the series and ultimately what leads to his death. Now that Im a bit older, Ive known people who have struggled with addiction, and its taken years to fix, with many ups & downs along the way, similar to Chris. Also have to take into account how much trauma Chris has in his life, which has to add to his struggle of going back to shooting up often. I wouldnt call the wreck cheap though, it was a culmination of his addiction struggles finally catching up to him to the point of death. Him being high put himself into that position and ultimately led to Tony killing him

Once he killed JT, which I didnt even remember happening until rewatch, its hard to have much sympathy for his death. He became way too much of a liability and Tony knew how much Chris now resented him. It was only a matter of time before Chris did something to put Tonys life (death/arrest) in jeopardy - hell, he could have killed him during that car wreck

Yeah, I just finished the ep where Tony sets up Feech with the flat screens in his garage while a PO comes by.
Chris is still my favorite, only because I think Michael Imperioli is the best actor on the show. But yeah, I must have just glossed over all the many times Chris fukked up when I was younger because he was a major fukk up. Chris was loyal tho, even tho he hated Tony by the end.
You listening to the podcast Talking Sopranos? Definitely recommend.

 

[Brozay]

Yeah, I just finished the ep where Tony sets up Feech with the flat screens in his garage while a PO comes by.
Chris is still my favorite, only because I think Michael Imperioli is the best actor on the show. But yeah, I must have just glossed over all the many times Chris fukked up when I was younger because he was a major fukk up. Chris was loyal tho, even tho he hated Tony by the end.
You listening to the podcast Talking Sopranos? Definitely recommend.

nah ive been meaning to listen, saw a thread on it here. im gonna wait til i finish the rewatch. i didnt want to jump in yet because im so far ahead of them. ill drop some thoughts in that thread when i start listening

I think the only bad episode is 'Chasing It' from second half of season 6 - its a very odd episode that doesnt fit well into the show. curious how Michael / Steve will cover that episode