A foreigner?
Abraham wasnt a foreigner to Israel since Israel didnt exist so I dont see what you're trying to get at.
Im still waiting for you to show where a foreigner is said to become an Israelite. I already said they get the same treatment. If you cant show the law saying they will become Israelites well then
Lol this is a classic case of erecting a straw man to make your argument look stronger. Where did you see me say Abraham was foreigner to Israel? Considering Israel came through HIS line.
What I DID say, which you took outta context, was the fact that Abraham came from a family of Pagans, yet was CHOSEN by the Most High to be the father of many nations (Which would include Israel through his grandson Jacob) and of the promise.
Chosen, not born with.
And I've already proven my point with facts. The burden of proof is now on you to disprove it if you can.
Nah your THEORY doesnt hold weight because you still havent shown in the law or the prophets that states that a person can become a son of Jacob. All you can show is their treatment. I didnt say they would be treated different. But an Israelite is a son of Jacob. Not a religion. Not a walk of life. Which is why I asked you to show where a person in the OT was called a "fake" son of Israel. Couldnt find it could you? Oh and I didnt mean a literal translation of fake. I want you to exemplify a person being a "fake" son of Jacob by their actions. Can you find it? I mean you have many kings that did evil in the sight of the Almighty, where were they called fake sons of Jacob?
I already did. several times actually.
We can even see the foreshadowing of all these things in the covenant he made with Abraham.
Genesis 17:9-14
9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
So what was contingent for one to be counted amongst Israel under the Mosaic law?
1) Be circumcised* of the heart and flesh. (*typo)
2) Keep the Law (Torah)
And I couldn't find one example? I literally pointed out two to you earlier in Saul and Solomon.
But if you insist...
Hosea 2:1-4
1 In that day you will call your brothers Ammi -- 'My people.' And you will call your sisters Ruhamah -- 'The ones I love.' 2 "But now, call Israel to account, for she is no longer my wife, and I am no longer her husband. Tell her to take off her garish makeup and suggestive clothing and to stop playing the prostitute. 3 If she doesn't, I will strip her as naked as she was on the day she was born. I will leave her to die of thirst, as in a desert or a dry and barren wilderness. 4 And I will not love her children as I would my own because they are not my children! They were conceived in adultery.
Why dont I accept Maccabees? Though you didnt ask, I'll tell you anyways. Where in the law or the prophets does it advocate praying for the dead? Or saints making intercession? It doesnt does it?
Intercession of saints ONLY when viewed from a Catholic POV.
Yet we clearly see Pharisaic customs being implemented by the Hasmonean dynasty of Judah during that time, including prayer for the dead.
This is actually WHY both accounts are important. They not only deal with the historicity of Judah at that time, but also the strange (i.e non-torah) doctrines that were brought in by the Pharisees, who pretty much rose to power DURING that period.
But if keeping the Law is important to you, I do hope you're keeping up with your animal sacrifices for atonement of sin.
If you're excuse is the generic "no, because the 2nd temple was destroyed and that's where people to make their sacrifices" prepare to be hit with some sobering facts concerning that.
Who said anything of Saul or Solomon or any Israelite being accepted just because they were Israelites? Who said that foreigners who are not SONS OF JACOB will be rejected because of this? NOT I. I've said the same thing all along. An Israelite is a son of Jacob. Not a religion. Not a walk of life lol
Who mentioned religion? I'm simply pointing out what scripture says.
A jew is not a keeper of the torah. But a descendant of the tribe of Judah. Solomon was from the tribe of Judah despite his shortcomings. Can you bring an example of where the OT uses "destroyed cut off and rejected" and lets see if it refers to them as not being from the tribe of Judah anymore? Nobody said that an Israelite is going to be accepted no matter what so Im not sure what you're getting at by insinuating that this is my argument. Maybe you're just arguing to argue?
So then why the issue about saying foreigners were brought into the fold and accepted as the native-born Israelites?
As for using examples of being destroyed, cut off and rejected, here are 3 quick ones off top.
Amos 9:8-10
“Surely the eyes of the Sovereign Lord
are on the sinful kingdom.
I will destroy it
from the face of the earth.
Yet I will not totally destroy
the descendants of Jacob,”
declares the Lord.
9 “For I will give the command,
and I will shake the people of Israel
among all the nations
as grain is shaken in a sieve,
and not a pebble will reach the ground.
10 All the sinners among my people
will die by the sword,
all those who say,
‘Disaster will not overtake or meet us.’
2nd Kings 17:18-20
So the Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them from his presence. Only the tribe of Judah was left, 19 and even Judah did not keep the commands of the Lord their God. They followed the practices Israel had introduced. 20 Therefore the Lord rejected all the people of Israel; he afflicted them and gave them into the hands of plunderers, until he thrust them from his presence.
Numbers 15:30
“‘But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the Lord and must be cut off from the people of Israel.
And yet none of this has anything to do with the FACT that the way Israel was supposed to follow for ALL generations was never called Judaism when it was first given to them
You can blame Solomon for that....
Where did the Levites refer to their faith as Judaism?
I mean, that's just common sense. They formed a part of the House of Judah along with Benjamin.
2nd Maccabbes 8:1 state the following
Judas, otherwise known as Maccabaeus, and his companions made their way secretly among the villages, rallying their fellow-countrymen; t
hey recruited those who remained loyal to Judaism and assembled about six thousand.
Even if you call that a reach or reading into the text too much, you can't deny that the people at that time referred to their faith as Judaism. Just as they referred to themselves as Jews, despite some not being directly descendants of Judah. (Paul in
Acts 21:39 and Romans 11:1)
I really dont refer to it as the Tanakh and I dont like referring to it as the OT but I do so so the person Im speaking with understands me. If I have an understanding with the person, I usually refer to it as the law and the prophets
treatment.
You wouldnt. You would throw it out along with those false teachings. Now the law on the otherhand....
