Winning title is literally the most overated way.

[wtfyomom]

all-time = old dudes might be on that list. When did "all-time" start for you?

Just because something says all time it doesnt mean there has to be a representative from each era, this isnt the MLB all star game where some scrub from KC has to be represented. Bob Petit could not stand in front of Webber and be better than him. I dont mean old like Mchale, he could be included he was great. But dudes from the 50s better than Webber? Nah

 

[tremonthustler1]

Just because something says all time it doesnt mean there has to be a representative from each era, this isnt the MLB all star game where some scrub from KC has to be represented. Bob Petit could not stand in front of Webber and be better than him.

who said that? Judge off merit and off merit, Petit trumps Webber. Again, context. You don't understand it.

 

[Mantle Drunk]

So were gonna totally gloss over someone like Mark Messier and his accomplishments because championships are meaningless? Yes we understand you need good teams around you but for him to win 5 Stanley Cups with the Oilers one when Gretzky left that he Captianed. Then went onto the Rangers and won as the capitan and helped put them over the top does this mean nothing to you?

 

[wtfyomom]

who said that? Judge off merit and off merit, Petit trumps Webber. Again, context. You don't understand it.

Like I said difference of opinion and different argument. But to me I dont look in context.

I look at take the two players, put them on the court together, who would perform better. That to me is who is better.

Bob Petit took advantage of playing against scrubs. He was the best scrub. 2nd biggest fish in a big pond>>>> biggest fish in a small pond

 

[wtfyomom]

So were gonna totally gloss over someone like Mark Messier and his accomplishments because championships are meaningless? Yes we understand you need good teams around you but for him to win 5 Stanley Cups with the Oilers one when Gretzky left that he Captianed. Then went onto the Rangers and won as the capitan and helped put them over the top does this mean nothing to you?

Again you dont need to look at rings to know Messiers greatness. But Mess has more rings than Gretsky. Is he better?

 

[Mantle Drunk]

Again you dont need to look at rings to know Messiers greatness. But Mess has more rings than Gretsky. Is he better?

I understand that but does that not add to his legacy and raise him up a couple of levels in your eyes?

 

[Street Knowledge]

nikkaz are still using the Robert Horry example in 2012??? Really?

 

[Nuke Dukem]

What's with these logical fallacies like..

"oh people say Horry>>>Weber"

"Horry> Malone"

Who the fukk does? No1 does, yet I see peopl say it all the time

 

[FTBS]

So were gonna totally gloss over someone like Mark Messier and his accomplishments because championships are meaningless? Yes we understand you need good teams around you but for him to win 5 Stanley Cups with the Oilers one when Gretzky left that he Captianed. Then went onto the Rangers and won as the capitan and helped put them over the top does this mean nothing to you?

Point is he wouldn't have any of those rings if he had sucky teammates that didnt' show up come playoff time...no matter how great a leader or individual player that he was. Its' not glossing over to acknowledge the things outside of his control that contributed to those titles. Take the rings away and we are still talking about a guy who is second only to Gretzky in scoring...that's great in it's own right.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

sorry title should be the most overated way to judge an individual in a team sport.

Besides the obvious that its a team game. There are so many variables.
Take the Bills as the best example. If Norwood makes the FG Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas etc go from "losers" to all out legends. Yet they had nothing to do with it. The stupidity of judging nigggas this way is literally the most illogical thing people think in sports.

Chris Webber should be a first ballot hofamer, hes easily a top ten PF all time, yet hes thought of as a loser and oh he called timeout Meantime if Robert Horry a fuccckin mediocre as niggga that averages 4 points a game doesnt get a lucky bounce and hit a wide open 3, the Kings win and Webber wins even WITH the refs trying to hand the Lakers the series.

So perfect example, from that series Robert Horry is a "winner" and CWebb is a "loser", I mean lets be real, who has a better rep? Horry or Webber? Nigggas was actually arguing Horry should be in the hall of fame? I mean

Baseball its even worse cause the offs are a complete crapshoot. What spawned this thread is Oakland and Beane and "moneyball" (aka what the media thinks sabermetrics is) have worked again. This niggga revamped the entire team and won the division again. But if they dont win it all? "oh moneyball doesnt work in the postseason"

You must support shyt teams

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

Agree with most people here. I hear too many arguments for somebodies favorite player that involves the line of thinking "but he's better because he got rings ", it's a lazy argument when no context is provided. A team accomplishment shouldn't have any bearing on a players legacy as long as that player does what he's supposed to do and carries his weight.

 

[tremonthustler1]

I look at take the two players, put them on the court together, who would perform better. That to me is who is better.

That makes no sense when judging off an all-time list. Therefore, in your world, an all-time list is impossible because you've already got a cut off date.

 

[Street Knowledge]

How did "he" get outplayed? You think if he was on SF and Montana's overated ass was on the Dolphins then the outcome of the game is different?

Marino is the goat QB and dont got a ring. Rings=meaningless

Marino is not the GOAT QB and the reason he doesn't have any rings is because he underperformed and threw too many picks in the playoffs almost every year.

Marino Passer ratings in playoff loses

77.6
66.9
54.9
72.1
56.5
109.8
63.4
29.3
65.5
34.6

in Marino's ten career playoff losses, he threw multiple picks in NINE of them

For every interception thrown in the playoffs, a quarterback decreases his teams chances of winning by nearly 25%

0 INT – 196-53 (.787)
1 INT – 146-122 (.545)
2 INT – 54-120 (.310)
3 INT – 17-79 (.177)
4+ INT – 1-41 (.024)
The Almighty CHFF Interception Ladder

That's why he's not the GOAT, it's more of his playoff performance than rings

 

[Stone]

Point is he wouldn't have any of those rings if he had sucky teammates that didnt' show up come playoff time...no matter how great a leader or individual player that he was. Its' not glossing over to acknowledge the things outside of his control that contributed to those titles. Take the rings away and we are still talking about a guy who is second only to Gretzky in scoring...that's great in it's own right.

Exactly.

It's a case of rings adding to your greatness vs rings making you great.

Examples of the first would be Lebron and Kobe and an example of the second would be someone like Wade.

 

[FTBS]

Marino is not the GOAT QB and the reason he doesn't have any rings is because he underperformed and threw too many picks in the playoffs almost every year.

Marino Passer ratings in playoff loses

77.6
66.9
54.9
72.1
56.5
109.8
63.4
29.3
65.5
34.6

in Marino's ten career playoff losses, he threw multiple picks in NINE of them

For every interception thrown in the playoffs, a quarterback decreases his teams chances of winning by nearly 25%

0 INT – 196-53 (.787)
1 INT – 146-122 (.545)
2 INT – 54-120 (.310)
3 INT – 17-79 (.177)
4+ INT – 1-41 (.024)
The Almighty CHFF Interception Ladder

That's why he's not the GOAT, it's more of his playoff performance than rings

Montana's teams were 4-1 in games were Montana threw multiple pics in the playoffs including the legendary "The Catch" game. Pats are 3-2 when Brady throws multiples. Colts won a SB with Manning throwing 7 pics in 4 games. Meanwhile Marino's teams were 1-9. Contrary to myth, winning in the NFL is not all about the QB. Teams that are most dependant on their QB generally don't fare that well come playoff time. Consequently QBs tend to struggle as individuals in these circumstances as well. Look no further than Brady's career. Early on when they weren't as dependant on him he made fewer mistakes and they won. Later on when they were more dependant he's struggled and they haven't won.