Wilt Chamberlain and Jordan had an argument about who was the goat at the 50 greatest(no kobe stans)

[TrebleMan]

Wilt's play-off numbers and success leave a lot on the court for as dominant as he was.

Once Jordan hit his prime, it was over for everybody else.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

No different than lebron playing on a watered down eastern conference and losing more than he won in the finals. Does that take away from lebron?

The second claim is just stupidity. EVERY player other than the 1960s-1970s Celtics has won the chip less than half the time. Lebron has won it 3 out of 13 years. Wilt won it 2 out of 14 years. Magic won it 5 out of 13. Kareem won it 5 out of 20. Jordan, the GOAT, won it 6 out of 15 years. To penalize Lebron for actually getting to the Finals is stupid. You're talking like if Lebron lost to the 2007 Pistons like he was expected to and then went down to the 2015 Bulls or Hawks after Love and Kyrie got hurt, that his legacy would somehow be better. Any argument that makes losing better than winning is moronic.


As far as a "watered-down eastern conference", compared to who? Lebron faced solid-to-great Celtics teams, Bulls teams, Pistons teams, Pacers teams, etc. And then he had to still beat the West champ to win the title, so he has fantastic OKC, Spurs, and Warriors teams there too.

Sure, the East wasn't as good as the West for large parts of his era. But who are you comparing him to? The actual teams Lebron faced in the playoffs, and his actual performances in those games, compare to anyone. I think he's #2 or #3 all time behind Jordan and maybe Kareem.

 

[Sccit]

Russell > both

 

[Sccit]

The second claim is just stupidity. EVERY player other than the 1960s-1970s Celtics has won the chip less than half the time. Lebron has won it 3 out of 13 years. Wilt won it 2 out of 14 years. Magic won it 5 out of 13. Kareem won it 5 out of 20. Jordan, the GOAT, won it 6 out of 15 years. To penalize Lebron for actually getting to the Finals is stupid. You're talking like if Lebron lost to the 2007 Pistons like he was expected to and then went down to the 2015 Bulls or Hawks after Love and Kyrie got hurt, that his legacy would somehow be better. Any argument that makes losing better than winning is moronic.


As far as a "watered-down eastern conference", compared to who? Lebron faced solid-to-great Celtics teams, Bulls teams, Pistons teams, Pacers teams, etc. And then he had to still beat the West champ to win the title, so he has fantastic OKC, Spurs, and Warriors teams there too.

Sure, the East wasn't as good as the West for large parts of his era. But who are you comparing him to. The actual teams Lebron faced in the playoffs, and his actual performances in those games, compare to anyone. I think he's #2 or #3 all time behind Jordan and maybe Kareem.

SHUT THE FUCC UP

 

[Bolzmark]

well Ben Wallace and Rodman out rebounding Shaq or other tall players. maybe because of long arms

I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't give too much credit skill wise for a 7 foot center over a 6'6" guard in the areas of rebounding and blocking shots, in the same way I wouldn't give Jordan much credit for having better dribbling skills.

 

[Wacky D]

Wilt's play-off numbers and success leave a lot on the court for as dominant as he was.

Once Jordan hit his prime, it was over for everybody else.

over for everybody else?

Jordan's absolute prime was in the '80s, and he wasn't winning chit breh. he didn't start winning until all those legendary teams of the '80s got flabby.

the bulls dominated the expansion era, and they were the only squad with a super-team.

Why is it that the people saying things like this aren't coming with receipts?

people need to retire the term "receipts" already.

its well-known that wilt used to run point for the globetrotters.

wilt could score well-outside the key and hit free throws.

if you need receipts for any of this, then you shouldn't be arguing/downplaying.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

over for everybody else?

Jordan's absolute prime was in the '80s, and he wasn't winning chit breh. he didn't start winning until all those legendary teams of the '80s got flabby.

the bulls dominated the expansion era, and they were the only squad with a super-team.

Yup. People don't often have a good argument for this. They talk like Jordan could single-handedly will his team to titles whenever he wanted, when in fact he ONLY won when he had Phil Jackson coaching the team and a prime Scottie as a sidekick and competent players at every position with a good bench. Statistically, Jordan's prime was 1987-1990, yet he couldn't win any titles in that span.

people need to retire the term "receipts" already.

its well-known that wilt used to run point for the globetrotters.

wilt could score well-outside the key and hit free throws.

if you need receipts for any of this, then you shouldn't be arguing/downplaying.

So people who don't have evidence for their claims think the idea of "receipts" needs to be retired?

Who needs receipts when you have legends?


Fifty years from now, someone will be saying, "It's well-known that Lebron James was guarding centers and shutting them down. I can point you to a dozen different reporters of the time who says that he guarded all five positions."

Fifty years from now, someone will be saying, "It's well-known that Shaq had to be subbed out in fourth quarters and the Lakers leaned on Kobe late. I can point you to a hundred Laker fans telling us that."

Legends are legends. Have you seen how point guards dribbled in the 1950s and how lax the defense was? Joakim fukking Noah could have taken the ball up the court for the 1950s Globetrotters if that's the standard you want to set.

Now, should me some receipts that prove why Wilt would have been dominant today. Show me actual game film, not just highlights where only the makes are included but actual game film, which show his dominance against competent defenders.

I've already shown you game film that proves my point. I took the <i>biggest</i> game from his <i>best</i> year and it was status.

Why am I getting nothing but crickets from the other side?

 

[Wacky D]

Legends are legends. Have you seen how point guards dribbled in the 1950s and how lax the defense was? Joakim fukking Noah could have taken the ball up the court for the 1950s Globetrotters if that's the standard you want to set.

Now, should me some receipts that prove why Wilt would have been dominant today. Show me actual game film, not just highlights where only the makes are included but actual game film, which show his dominance against competent defenders.

I've already shown you game film that proves my point. I took the <i>biggest</i> game from his <i>best</i> year and it was status.

Why am I getting nothing but crickets from the other side?

we're talking about the globetrotters. not the coocamonga hoosiers.

act like wilt didn't play against like half of the greatest centers of all-times brehs.

 

[William F. Russell]

Kareem is the best basketball player ever. Dominated at all 3 levels, HS/College/NBA. In multiple systems with different coaches, teammates and roles across different eras

Russell is the best ever. Most rings. Most MVPs. Dominated at all 3 levels and won as both a player and a coach. Plus dude won 8 straight rings and repeated in his final 2 seasons. And he has the Finals MVP named after him.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

we're talking about the globetrotters. not the coocamonga hoosiers.

act like wilt didn't play against like half of the greatest centers of all-times brehs.

So name Wilt's most dominant playoff series that show he could have dominated on offense today.

Name Wilt's best postseasons ever.

Show me ONE game video that proves how dominant he could be today. Not highlights, a game.

If he played against so many great centers, then you should have receipts of him dominating those centers on offense, right?

Yeah, Wilt played against Kareem and Willis Reed and Nate Thurmond. But lets ignore that he sucked on offense against them in the playoffs. Even when Reed was hurt in Game 7, Wilt couldn't dominate him and lost the game. Wilt could never score against Nate Thurmond in the playoffs (averaged something like 13ppg against him in three series), and Wilt averaged like 16ppg in two series against Kareem while Kareem was averaging 35ppg against him.

You can say, "Oh, but Wilt was old then, and he wasn't trying hard to score, it doesn't count!" Okay then, DON'T COUNT IT. You can't simultaneously count all these "great centers" that Wilt played against while ignoring that he didn't do shyt against them on offense when it mattered.

The only "great center" that Wilt put up numbers on was 6'10", 215lb Russell. And Wilt always lost those games. The fact that Wilt could score 29ppg in losing efforts against a guy who weighed 215lbs, when there wasn't even another player on the court over 6'7", doesn't convince me that he'd be dominating today.

 

[MalikX]

a grown man who selected "kobe" (in all caps) as his username being emotional at someone pointing out that kobe was a SIDEKICK isnt surprising to me

how can you respect yourself openly stanning another man like that. you're disgusting

Are you really a boss if you got thrown out the building by the sidekick though

Kobe finished his career in LA with everyone chanting his name. Shaq was somewhere in Phoenix or Boston being irrelevant. Did anyone even notice when he stopped playing

 

[Art Barr]

Michael jordan is the best skill player in the history of bball, period.
Just close this whole discussion.


Art Barr

 

[the cool]

Wilt chamberlain back then was like Anthony Davis today playing against D2 college full of white boys under 6'6

Just not a lot of competition back then

 

[Juggalo Fred]

Are you really a boss if you got thrown out the building by the sidekick though

Kobe finished his career in LA with everyone chanting his name. Shaq was somewhere in Phoenix or Boston being irrelevant. Did anyone even notice when he stopped playing

Shaq finished his career on playoff teams, Kobe lead the Lakers to their worst season ever and held back the progression of their young players

 

[Jplaya2023]

wouldn't the fact that nba teams still were trying to woo wilt out of retirement as late as 1989 show that he could've been effective at any time in the nba @The Dankster