So u like to play dumb huh..that was the whole purpose of this thread
why you say that?
I really just think AD been balling. Nobody is talking about him for MVP which is crazy You really don't think AD should be talked about as MVP?
why you say that?
I really just think AD been balling. Nobody is talking about him for MVP which is crazy You really don't think AD should be talked about as MVP?
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
AD is their best player but the media is already too far up Lebron's ass. Looking at social media from ESPN and some of these other sources, you'll think Lebron was the one leading in almost all stats and not AD. Giannis is going to win it anyway. He's by far the most deserving player to its a moot point even debating it.
steph_harden
Superstar
AD is having an MVP type season, but being Lebron’s teammate means you automatically receive less credit for team success...hence AD not getting any serious consideration...Bron media bias is a powerful thing...Giannis is basically a hybrid bron/ad, has the best PER in history, Bucks are close to 70 wins and has the best point differential in history...and the media is STILL trying to force Bron in there
That shyt is mind boggling just to say but Giannis really just emulate both their attributes on a night to night basis. If the Bucks get to 70 he should def be unanimous
This is the only reason you made this thread. I see exactly where you are trying to go with this smh
Not being able to read once was bad enough. Replying to my shyt THREE TIMES and reading it wrong all three times is wild.
This is what I actually said - it had nothing to do with Magic's MVP year in 1987.
See where you went wrong?
1982:
Magic: 18-9-9-2-0 on 53% shooting
Kareem: 24-9-3-1-3 on 58% shooting
Kareem scored way more points than Magic on better shooting, had way more blocks and was a much better defender, yet Magic finished ahead of him in the MVP race 8th place to 10th. (Magic actually had a fraction of a rebound more than KAJ, I missed on that part but pretty damn sure that was irrelevant to the voters.)
1983:
Magic: 17-8-10-2-0 on 55% shooting
Kareem: 22-7-2-1-2 on 59% shooting
Same thing, way more points with more blocks and better defense, but Magic finished 3rd in MVP voting and Kareem 10th.
1984:
Magic: 17-7-13-2-1 on 56% shooting
Kareem: 21-7-3-1-2 on 58% shooting
Third straight year that Kareem had far more points on better %'s with better defense than Magic, yet Magic finished #3 in MVP voting while Kareem finished #4.
1985:
Magic: 18-6-12-1-0 on 56% shooting
Kareem: 22-8-3-1-2 on 60% shooting
Fourth straight year, Kareem has better scoring and better defense and Magic STILL finishes ahead at #2 in the MVP voting with Kareem #4.
1986:
Magic: 19-6-12-1-0 on 52% shooting
Kareem: 23-6-3-1-1 on 56% shooting
By this point Kareem's defense was seriously declining but he was STILL more important on that end than Magic was, he STILL is averaging significantly more points than Magic....and yet Magic was 3rd in MVP voting and Kareem was 5th.
That was 5 straight years where Kareem averaged 4-6 points more than Magic on better shooting %'s with much better defense and still finished behind him in the MVP race. And y'all think there's some sort of unwritten rule that says that AD has to be higher in the MVP rankings than LeBron because he has 1ppg, 1rpg, and 0.3spg more than him.
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It's not possible you could watch Laker games and think AD is the best player. It's literally not possible. Even some of the straight Bron haters are replying in this thread and admitting that LeBron has been better than AD this year.
LAKERS MINUTES OFF. RATING NET RATING
James & Davis 1,201 112.9 +10.2
Just James 683 115.7 +11.7
Just Davis 525 104.3 -3.7
Would love for you to explain that. Sample size is plenty big, both of them have played 500+ minutes without the other. If AD is really the MVP of the team, then how come the Lakers have outscored their opponents by even MORE whenever AD is off the court, but can't even stay even with the other teams when LeBron is off the court.
Make any excuse for it you want, but zero denying that LeBron is more valuable to this team this year.
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
I don't really care about on-off stats. I prefer to stick to basic tangible stats everyone can see.
AD leads the Lakers in Points, Rebounds, Steals, Blocks, FT% and is the most efficient scorer on the team. The fact you think its "not possible" to make an argument for AD just shows you're not being partial. Which other planet does a player lead his team in virtually all relevant stats and is not the best player? Not just offensively but defensively as well. Stop with the fanboyism bro. AD has been better than Bron this year, Lebron just gets advertised more by the media.
What other planet? How about the 1982-1986 Lakers for starters? Kareem's advantage over Magic in scoring and defense was BIGGER than AD's advantage over Bron, and the consensus was still that Magic, not Kareem, was the best player on the team.
So you think that we should stop watching games, get rid of the voting, and just have a box score formula that determines MVP each year? You know how many MVPs LeBron would have racked up by now if that was the case?
Even if you really don't know what a basketball game looks like and could do nothing but read a box score, you'd be able to see that AD's lead in all but one of those categories is just fractions of a point. It's almost meaningless which one of them averages 25ppg and which one averages 26ppg. It's basically meaningless which one averages 1.3spg and which one averages 1.5spg.
The only stats where there is any separation is where LeBron averages 8apg more than AD but AD averages 2+bpg more than LeBron. On pure box score stats alone, LeBron would look slightly better, which is why even the Basketball Reference rankings (which are a pure formula) put LeBron ahead of AD.
But box score stats aren't the only stat we know. We also see on-off stats. And we can SEE, mathematically undeniably, that the Lakers are much much better with LeBron on the court than with AD on the court.
And we actually know what a basketball game looks like. And everyone in here who doesn't have a long-term grudge against LeBron, as well as everyone else who covers basketball for a living, is telling you that LeBron is much more valuable to this team than AD. Can you not see, for example, that LeBron is the one who sets up half of AD's points and is the main reason AD leads the NBA in dunks? Can you not see that the Lakers start losing their lead every time LeBron steps off the court? Can you not see that LeBron simply is asked to do more than AD is?
Trojan 24
Veteran
Clearly this Giannis MVP and we still got brehs fighting to put Bron 2? Why?
breh this ain't right, AD deserves his respect for leading the Lakers to the playoffs as the number 1 seed.
Giannis is a beast I can't argue against him but his team was already good. What was the Lakers before AD got there?
He's revived them.
Notice that the 2-3 guys caping for AD on a stats argument still haven't even written AD's stats anywhere in the thread? Almost like they're afraid of being exposed.
#1. 25.4 / 7.8 / 10.7 / 1.2 / 0.5 on 50/35/70 splits
#2. 26.6 / 9.5 / 3.2 / 1.5 / 2.5 on 51/34/84 splits
No one would look at those two stat lines and declare "#2 is clearly better than #1". In any normal year, a player averaging 25-8-11 on good shooting with good defense would be a runaway MVP winner. AD's stat line is a nice line too but it's not obviously better. Any basketball fan would tell you that you would actually have to watch both of them play in order to know who actually had more of an impact on the game. And in reality it's not close.
You ask them, they're the once insisting on starting the fight, I'm just replying.
#1. 25.4 / 7.8 / 10.7 / 1.2 / 0.5 on 50/35/70 splits
#2. 26.6 / 9.5 / 3.2 / 1.5 / 2.5 on 51/34/84 splits
No one would look at those two stat lines and declare "#2 is clearly better than #1". In any normal year, a player averaging 25-8-11 on good shooting with good defense would be a runaway MVP winner. AD's stat line is a nice line too but it's not obviously better. Any basketball fan would tell you that you would actually have to watch both of them play in order to know who actually had more of an impact on the game. And in reality it's not close.
Clearly this Giannis MVP and we still got brehs fighting to put Bron 2? Why?
You ask them, they're the once insisting on starting the fight, I'm just replying.
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
Even though this is a very spurious and silly example, i'll induldge. How many MVP's did Magic win in that time period? Zero.
Even if you really don't know what a basketball game looks like and could do nothing but read a box score, you'd be able to see that AD's lead in all but one of those categories is just fractions of a point. It's almost meaningless which one of them averages 25ppg and which one averages 26ppg. It's basically meaningless which one averages 1.3spg and which one averages 1.5spg.
The only stats where there is any separation is where LeBron averages 8apg more than AD but AD averages 2+bpg more than LeBron. On pure box score stats alone, LeBron would look slightly better, which is why even the Basketball Reference rankings (which are a pure formula) put LeBron ahead of AD.
But box score stats aren't the only stat we know. We also see on-off stats. And we can SEE, mathematically undeniably, that the Lakers are much much better with LeBron on the court than with AD on the court.
And we actually know what a basketball game looks like. And everyone in here who doesn't have a long-term grudge against LeBron, as well as everyone else who covers basketball for a living, is telling you that LeBron is much more valuable to this team than AD. Can you not see, for example, that LeBron is the one who sets up half of AD's points and is the main reason AD leads the NBA in dunks? Can you not see that the Lakers start losing their lead every time LeBron steps off the court? Can you not see that LeBron simply is asked to do more than AD is?[/QUOTE]
The bolded part is particularly ironic since the rest of your comment is basically a campaign to use box/minus stats as the best evaluator as to who deserves the MVP. Never mind the fact that Lebron has a higher usage rate than anyone on the Lakers (yet AD leads in almost all of the 5 major statistical categories). More relevantly, AD actually has a HIGHER Box/plus minus (BPM) than Lebron this year according to basketball-reference, so according to you, does AD deserve it more : 2019-20 Los Angeles Lakers Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com
You can clearly see when you scroll down to advanced stats, AD's BPM is 8.6 and Lebron's BPM is 8.2. Never mind the fact that many of these advanced stats are heavily dependent on external factors that have little to do with the quality of the player. According to BPM , Chris Paul is the 3rd most valuable player in NBA history :
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Box Plus/Minus | Basketball-Reference.com
Stop with the conjecture and stick to common sense. No way is Lebron the best player when another player on his team leads the team in points, rebounds, steals , blocks, FT% and has the best efficiency (according to the advanced stats you love so much. Only when it suits your arguments of course
)
Trojan 24
Veteran
AD definitely be putting up empty stats sometimes, all of a sudden he'll have 25 and 10 and you don't even notice. I remember when Bygawd would put up 20 and 10 and you felt like he was controlling the game. But he is playing with the STAT King so
Why does it matter who won the MVP when we're just talking about who is MVP of the team?
But if you want a more recent example with an MVP winner, I can provide.
#1. 15-3-11 on 50% shooting with terrible defense
#2. 26-9-2 on 56% shooting with decent defense
#1: wins MVP
#2: finishes 10th in MVP standings
Quick, I need y'all to run and tell people that Amare Stoudamire was clearly the MVP of the Suns in 2005.
Even if you don't think Nash deserved MVP of the league (and he didn't), Nash was CLEARLY the MVP of the Suns and proved it the next year when Amare only played 3 games and they barely even missed a beat.
Amare led in every category except assists and averaged nearly TWICE as many points as Nash with better defense and still didn't touch him in the MVP standings. Some of y'all post like you know nothing of the games, the stats, OR the history, all you have are hot takes and agendas.
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