WHY WANDA VISION COULD SPELL THE BEGINNING OF:

[R=G]

Nothing

Can’t front he called this shyt and Marvel is meandering and going no where.

We about to get a movie of three female superheroes no one really likes with a musical number in the middle of the film.



Meanwhile Black Widow (who was popular) is dead, daredevil was a sneaky link, and Thor bombed because they were deadset making it a comedy. Gunn is gone, Antman built up an individual Kang to kill him, they made a Nick Fury series just to introduce a female super skrull. They just doing stuff to do it at this point.

If Loki season 2 sucks…. Marvel is fukked until FF comes out

Kamala is a winner

 

[R=G]

Kevin Feige needs to put Jim Shooter in the driver's seat. I don't think it's a coincidence that all of these bizarre retcons and character regression with the Scarlet Witch/Vision happened after he left. I like John Byrne but those changes shouldn't have been allowed. The further the MCU gets away from following Jim Shooter's era and the stories of that time (1979-1986), the worse things are going to get.

Roger Stern on Spider-man, Avengers >
Walt Simonson Thor >
Claremont and Byrne on X-men >
Frank Miller Daredevil >
John Byrne Fantastic Four >



Disney is getting too arrogant, and they don't think they need the source material anymore. The storyline is aimless.
Joss Whedon, RDJ, Chris Evans, James Gunn, and the Russo Brothers are all gone.
All the best characters are compromised.

Steve Rogers is retired.
Iron Man and Black Widow are dead.
Hawkeye is injured and half-retired by this point.
Spider-man is partially owned by another studio. (Sony)
They should have recast Black Panther. (RIP Chadwick Boseman)
Disney made Thor and Hulk soft.
From the look of things, Daredevil is getting ready to go the same way.
Dr. Strange became a sidekick in his own movies.
The writers made She-Hulk boring.
They're taking way too long with the Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer/Doom/Galactus.
We should have BEEN had Blade by now.
(Allegedly) They can't do X-men yet because of the contracts with the old Fox actors.

They have no real "big draw" characters who are active right now (that Disney hasn't ruined), and they aren't following any of the iconic or memorable story arcs in the comics. It feels like they're just winging it.

On a side note, Reed Richards is actually that guy in the comics... he's the linchpin of the entire Marvel universe and the MCU only introduced him just to get jobbed out. Reed Richards is not a jobber, he's a character that should have been showing up across multiple movies. If they had kept him around, he could have been way more important and could have been the guy who facilitated and connected these storylines to help everything make sense. Reed is a way more crucial character than people think.

Reed Richard's is legit but annoying...has a answer for everything. Yet still can't fix Ben's face? Lol. No. Dr. Doom is what is needed.

 

[Mortal1]

Kevin Feige needs to put Jim Shooter in the driver's seat. I don't think it's a coincidence that all of these bizarre retcons and character regression with the Scarlet Witch/Vision happened after he left. I like John Byrne but those changes shouldn't have been allowed. The further the MCU gets away from following Jim Shooter's era and the stories of that time (1979-1986), the worse things are going to get.

Roger Stern on Spider-man, Avengers >
Walt Simonson Thor >
Claremont and Byrne on X-men >
Frank Miller Daredevil >
John Byrne Fantastic Four >



Disney is getting too arrogant, and they don't think they need the source material anymore. The storyline is aimless.
Joss Whedon, RDJ, Chris Evans, James Gunn, and the Russo Brothers are all gone.
All the best characters are compromised.

Steve Rogers is retired.
Iron Man and Black Widow are dead.
Hawkeye is injured and half-retired by this point.
Spider-man is partially owned by another studio. (Sony)
They should have recast Black Panther. (RIP Chadwick Boseman)
Disney made Thor and Hulk soft.
From the look of things, Daredevil is getting ready to go the same way.
Dr. Strange became a sidekick in his own movies.
The writers made She-Hulk boring.
They're taking way too long with the Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer/Doom/Galactus.
We should have BEEN had Blade by now.
(Allegedly) They can't do X-men yet because of the contracts with the old Fox actors.

They have no real "big draw" characters who are active right now (that Disney hasn't ruined), and they aren't following any of the iconic or memorable story arcs in the comics. It feels like they're just winging it.

On a side note, Reed Richards is actually that guy in the comics... he's the linchpin of the entire Marvel universe and the MCU only introduced him just to get jobbed out. Reed Richards is not a jobber, he's a character that should have been showing up across multiple movies. If they had kept him around, he could have been way more important and could have been the guy who facilitated and connected these storylines to help everything make sense. Reed is a way more crucial character than people think.

This is ultimately my biggest issue the most sucessful movies have adapted popular and acclaimed comic arcs like Civil War, Infinity/Gauntlet, Winter Solider (Ed Brubaker run). Guardians was inspired by the Dan Abnet and Andy Lanning run, Spidey films are inspired by the ultimate comics, Both Black Panther movies have elements of runs from Priest,Hudlins, Coates. Find a accliamed run and adapt it

 

[Art Barr]

Kevin Feige needs to put Jim Shooter in the driver's seat. I don't think it's a coincidence that all of these bizarre retcons and character regression with the Scarlet Witch/Vision happened after he left. I like John Byrne but those changes shouldn't have been allowed. The further the MCU gets away from following Jim Shooter's era and the stories of that time (1979-1986), the worse things are going to get.

Roger Stern on Spider-man, Avengers >
Walt Simonson Thor >
Claremont and Byrne on X-men >
Frank Miller Daredevil >
John Byrne Fantastic Four >



Disney is getting too arrogant, and they don't think they need the source material anymore. The storyline is aimless.
Joss Whedon, RDJ, Chris Evans, James Gunn, and the Russo Brothers are all gone.
All the best characters are compromised.

Steve Rogers is retired.
Iron Man and Black Widow are dead.
Hawkeye is injured and half-retired by this point.
Spider-man is partially owned by another studio. (Sony)
They should have recast Black Panther. (RIP Chadwick Boseman)
Disney made Thor and Hulk soft.
From the look of things, Daredevil is getting ready to go the same way.
Dr. Strange became a sidekick in his own movies.
The writers made She-Hulk boring.
They're taking way too long with the Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer/Doom/Galactus.
We should have BEEN had Blade by now.
(Allegedly) They can't do X-men yet because of the contracts with the old Fox actors.

They have no real "big draw" characters who are active right now (that Disney hasn't ruined), and they aren't following any of the iconic or memorable story arcs in the comics. It feels like they're just winging it.

On a side note, Reed Richards is actually that guy in the comics... he's the linchpin of the entire Marvel universe and the MCU only introduced him just to get jobbed out. Reed Richards is not a jobber, he's a character that should have been showing up across multiple movies. If they had kept him around, he could have been way more important and could have been the guy who facilitated and connected these storylines to help everything make sense. Reed is a way more crucial character than people think.

Prolific posting



Art Barr

 

[Days of Future Piff]

Prolific posting



Art Barr

Man, you called it. I like John Byrne but he’s definitely one of those creators who needs to be told “no”. Jim Shooter was great because he told creators “no” when their stories didn’t work.

When he saw the original Dark Phoenix ending he made Claremont and Byrne change it because he knew that a story needs to have gravitas, consequences, and stakes in order to be memorable and draw an audience.

Like the recent Mario movie for example. It was a draw for audiences because there was something for everyone, young and old. Both casual and hardcore fans could get into it because they kept all the original lore and easter eggs for the OG fans while still making things easy to follow for kids and newbies.Same with the OG Ninja Turtles (from 1990). The people who made those movies understood and cared about those properties. They didn’t go in thinking they were too smart to give the audience what they wanted. (This is what messed up the Last Jedi.) They wanted to entertain the general audience, not just their twitter feed.

The only part of Jim Shooters era I wasn’t a fan of was the way the messed up Cyclops in X-factor by having him abandon his family to go back to Jean. Claremont was heated when he found out and nearly quit because that move was so inherently destructive to the character and went against everything Scott was ever about. I know you’re not a big fan of Scott, but I always liked him in the Cockrum/Byrne/Phoenix era before they messed him up.
When I started thinking about what ruined him, I realized where it started.

All of that started with Jean Grey coming back to life in Fantastic Four #286.i It’s like dang… you were right about JB—and I hate that it had to be him. He’s a great artist, but people need to tell him “no”.

This should have been the end of Cyclops as a character right here:

Let him ride off into the sunset with his redhead while Storm takes the reins moving forward. Even as a fan of Scott I can still recognize that Storm is the real central figure of the Claremont run.

The whole point of Cyclops’ storyline after the Phoenix was about him getting over his codependency on Jean and becoming his own person with an actual life out of all this X-men business. But when you don’t tell creators “no”, you get stories like FF #286 or WCA #42.

The MCU has no real draw right now. Who are we looking forward to right now? What “big draw” characters do people know (that the mouse hasn’t messed up)?



Who do we know?
They made Nick Fury into a punk.
They gave us the worst version of Carol Danvers from the comics.
They made Scarlet Witch a basket case.
They made MODOK into a joke.
Kang is a jobber now. (Quantumania should have been a Fantastic Four movie )
These new characters aren’t hitting because the writers won’t put them through any real adversity or hardship.
The Avengers are mostly dead or retired.
The Guardians broke up.
We don’t have the X-men or Fantastic Four yet.
Nobody cares about the inhumans.

Who is their draw?
Who are the ‘96 Chicago Bulls of the MCU right now?
Who do you know?

 

[verbalkint]

Secret Wars has to be a hard reset or the end of this chapter. Way too many power players off the board. Introduction of X-Men and FF into this version of MCU isn't going to make anyone happy.

 

[Art Barr]

Man, you called it. I like John Byrne but he’s definitely one of those creators who needs to be told “no”. Jim Shooter was great because he told creators “no” when their stories didn’t work.

When he saw the original Dark Phoenix ending he made Claremont and Byrne change it because he knew that a story needs to have gravitas, consequences, and stakes in order to be memorable and draw an audience.

Like the recent Mario movie for example. It was a draw for audiences because there was something for everyone, young and old. Both casual and hardcore fans could get into it because they kept all the original lore and easter eggs for the OG fans while still making things easy to follow for kids and newbies.Same with the OG Ninja Turtles (from 1990). The people who made those movies understood and cared about those properties. They didn’t go in thinking they were too smart to give the audience what they wanted. (This is what messed up the Last Jedi.) They wanted to entertain the general audience, not just their twitter feed.

The only part of Jim Shooters era I wasn’t a fan of was the way the messed up Cyclops in X-factor by having him abandon his family to go back to Jean. Claremont was heated when he found out and nearly quit because that move was so inherently destructive to the character and went against everything Scott was ever about. I know you’re not a big fan of Scott, but I always liked him in the Cockrum/Byrne/Phoenix era before they messed him up.
When I started thinking about what ruined him, I realized where it started.

it’s like dang… you were right about JB—and I hate that it had to be him. He’s a great artist, but people need to tell him “no”.

This should have been the end of Cyclops as a character right here:

Let him ride off into the sunset with his redhead while Storm takes the reins moving forward. Even as a fan of Scott I can still recognize that Storm is the real central figure of the Claremont run.

The whole point of Cyclops’ storyline after the Phoenix was about him getting over his codependency on Jean and becoming his own person with an actual life out of all this X-men business. But when you don’t tell creators “no”, you get stories like FF #286 or WCA #42.

The MCU has no real draw right now. Who are we looking forward to right now? What “big draw” characters do people know (that the mouse hasn’t messed up)?



Who do we know?
They made Nick Fury into a punk.
They gave us the worst version of Carol Danvers from the comics.
They made Scarler Witch a basket case.
They made MODOK into a joke.
Kang is a jobber now. (Quantumania should have been a Fantastic Four movie )
These new characters aren’t hitting because the writers won’t put them through any real adversity or hardship.
The Avengers are mostly dead or retired.
The Guardians broke up.
We don’t have the X-men or Fantastic Four yet.
Nobody cares about the inhumans.

Who is their draw?
Who are the ‘96 Bulls of the MCU right now?
Who do you know?

This.

The problem with Disney is incredible disconnect they showcase.
to any property that is NOt all sugar gumballs.

With marvel, disney should have humbled themselves with this property. To create a broad discoveryzone. Plus not try to assimilate Marvel into Disney. Where Disney takes over the core element that made Marvel marvel.
Plus by trying to misappropriate marvel and not leave anything of Amy semblance to marvel. Will also ruin Disney. As Disney has never understood in their acquisitions of safe girl based properties. That same style, scope and direction I. The lil girl Kane. Will not work with boys period. That by never doing a discovery. Disney has made themselves obsolete to the marketplace. As marvel is so far more advanced. than Disney as a core concept in execution of business. That Disney should have done a larger discovery on what cod happen in mixing the identities of marvel and Disney. Without proper failsafes in place. Which could protect the draw if two companies. Completely juxtaposed.
As real talk. Disney has shown such ineptitude. That it will be difficult. to get back what draw Disney lost. As Disney has no core drawing component as a business.

as far as anything that relates to Disney.
as a staple after computer animation.
as Disney has no current animation style that is hand drawn that draws. Plus they failed to understand.
that Pixar needed to be branded separate away from grassroots animation. As computer animation as a whole. Undermines what Disney is at its central core as an actual entity.
All these factors and failure to do a proper discovery. In place of stone cold revenue grab based business. Could leave Disney in such ruin.
That it could be a small world. Where there is no Disney land or disney world.



Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

Me too.

This whole subforum is gonna look funny in the light by not discussing this.

As literally Disney is adapting the very material. That created why marvel is not even marvel and began why that bicepless mouse owns marvel. When they not supposed to own marvel.

Like we talembout the beginning of why readership was so destroyed. Marvel no longer owned spiderman's film rights.

Plus never got to make a james Cameron spiderman. Which was then stolen in screenplay and poorly amalgamated for affleck's trash ass daredevil.

So let's discuss this very important wrinkle of time. That could bring along the actual doom like it did before.


Art Barr

More prophecy.


Art Barr

 

[Ghost Utmost]

OP was absolutely correct.

I don't even try anymore with the shows. If ep 1 or 2 don't grab me then I just drop it. Only series' I finished were Hawkeye, Falcon/WS and She Hulk. Didn't like She Hulk so much but the other two were decent.

The movies have been mostly weak after Endgame.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

I watched one episode .. wasn’t for me.. now I gotta go back and watch that trash

 

[Hersh]

i actually think a hard reset would be good now that they own everything. and they know what works and what doesnt..

focus on movies.

if u must have tv make it cartoons( new xmen. make an avenger cartoon and also a ff4 and u can incorporate literally all marvel characters in the 3 or sitcom type(always feel like they got potential with some offshoot characters.. maybe have cool characters guest star) not connected to main mcuv2

 

[nightwing2016]

WE got the avengers made cool from this.

yet we could be facing the entirety of marvel reduced to this.

why are we even visiting this.
most that should happen is wanda feels sorrow and that is it.
trying to go down the rabbit hole. to chase what eventually leads to marvel not owning themselves anymore. plus the actual crossover. that signaled the actual end of high quality storytelling in marvel concurrently issue to issue. instead of series built on making graphic novels ala vertigo.

marvel...you already killed vision.
plus wanda was never a factor.

why are we re-visiting the actual content that ruins the ability for any marvel reader to suspend belief. plus is heralded as the actual thing that ruined marvel like a nonremedied poison.

hopefully feige can work this out,.

yet there is no high quality content to pull from to make this better at all.

so why are they doing this,........

we shall see.. we can hope and pray.

i just hope the new marvel fans don't get treated't like the star wars fans.



art barr


*cares.

i would hate for them to do y'all like star wars..
yet here it is...another foreshadow to disney's droid level of bullshyt.


never forget,...breh's..



you up on saturday getting the first star wars shyt.
since jedi left the movie theatre. you up early on saturday debut cartoon morning with all your tapes ready. plus your little tv schedule list, to tape and watch everything.
back before vcr's were cheap, or even in a household consistently.
i don't even think star wars was originally on vhs just laser disc or maybe beta.
you would have had to been white to have a laser disc or beta. or your pops was a world beater at corporate in that era.
so this is the first time in general.
the regular consumer has seen anything star wars again.

you see this shyt, and like wtf...is this garbage.
you listen to the lyrics.

no weapon in hand...fukk you mean.
this better not be like all those jedi figures.
i passed up because they don't have a blaster. they have a stick.
from those punk bytch made now we know udc funded mother's groups.

never forget breh's never forget.

stay on that bicepless ass mouse's head. as he will lie cheat steal and anything else under the magic kingdom rainbow. to fukk it up and act like he never had no hand in this shyt at all.
just like droids. then try to act like they know wtf they doing. when they never knew wtf they were doing long term at all.

Ok, this makes more sense because when you first said west coast avengers I was like . Lost in time and space is and Jim Rhodes as iron man for the first time there are some great moments in that run. I would argue that Quesada’s dumb ass ruined marvel with one more day and no more mutants edict in house of m

 

[nightwing2016]

This is ultimately my biggest issue the most sucessful movies have adapted popular and acclaimed comic arcs like Civil War, Infinity/Gauntlet, Winter Solider (Ed Brubaker run). Guardians was inspired by the Dan Abnet and Andy Lanning run, Spidey films are inspired by the ultimate comics, Both Black Panther movies have elements of runs from Priest,Hudlins, Coates. Find a accliamed run and adapt it

Civil War is acclaimed? When it first came out me and most people at my shop considered it to be kind of mid. The best description I ever heard about is that Miller had a story and just plugged people in the roles he wanted them to take regardless of their characters history and it is fitting

 

[Mortal1]

Civil War is acclaimed? When it first came out me and most people at my shop considered it to be kind of mid. The best description I ever heard about is that Miller had a story and just plugged people in the roles he wanted them to take regardless of their characters history and it is fitting

There was definite outrage at the time It was still a very popular story and I still liked the story. The basis of the story is still a good one which lead to civil war being one of marvels best.

 

[Days of Future Piff]

This is ultimately my biggest issue the most sucessful movies have adapted popular and acclaimed comic arcs like Civil War, Infinity/Gauntlet, Winter Solider (Ed Brubaker run). Guardians was inspired by the Dan Abnet and Andy Lanning run, Spidey films are inspired by the ultimate comics, Both Black Panther movies have elements of runs from Priest,Hudlins, Coates. Find a accliamed run and adapt it

Well put. Thor Ragnarok had elements of Walt Simonson's run as well as Planet Hulk. Captain America and Iron Man had their origin stories ripped straight from the comics (Avengers #4 and Tales of Suspense #39). Daredevil's first season is basically Frank Miller's The Man Without Fear in live action.

Whenever studios start thinking they know better than the source material, that's when disaster strikes. Stick to the source material.

This.

The problem with Disney is incredible disconnect they showcase.
to any property that is NOt all sugar gumballs.

With marvel, disney should have humbled themselves with this property. To create a broad discoveryzone. Plus not try to assimilate Marvel into Disney. Where Disney takes over the core element that made Marvel marvel.
Plus by trying to misappropriate marvel and not leave anything of Amy semblance to marvel. Will also ruin Disney. As Disney has never understood in their acquisitions of safe girl based properties. That same style, scope and direction I. The lil girl Kane. Will not work with boys period. That by never doing a discovery. Disney has made themselves obsolete to the marketplace. As marvel is so far more advanced. than Disney as a core concept in execution of business. That Disney should have done a larger discovery on what cod happen in mixing the identities of marvel and Disney. Without proper failsafes in place. Which could protect the draw if two companies. Completely juxtaposed.
As real talk. Disney has shown such ineptitude. That it will be difficult. to get back what draw Disney lost. As Disney has no core drawing component as a business.

as far as anything that relates to Disney.
as a staple after computer animation.
as Disney has no current animation style that is hand drawn that draws. Plus they failed to understand.
that Pixar needed to be branded separate away from grassroots animation. As computer animation as a whole. Undermines what Disney is at its central core as an actual entity.
All these factors and failure to do a proper discovery. In place of stone cold revenue grab based business. Could leave Disney in such ruin.
That it could be a small world. Where there is no Disney land or disney world.



Art Barr

Well put. This is the same reason that Disney is messing up Star Wars.

Disney's whole stock in trade is telling happily-ever-after fairy tales, and that's not what Marvel is.
Marvel is not a happily-ever-after fairy tale. The Coming of Galactus, the Death of Gwen Stacy, Days of Future Past, the Surtur Saga, and Frank Miller's Daredevil are not happily-ever-after fairy tales. That's not what Marvel is. Same thing goes for Star Wars.

Marvel and Star Wars are both mythology-based products with morality based storytelling revolving around good versus evil.
You don't put the company that specializes in happily-ever-after fairy tales in charge of a legacy based product that that draws it's influence from mythology, spirituality, and lore that spans back thousands of years and is able to resonate across all cultures and generations.

Meanwhile, you have Disney totally character assassinating Luke Skywalker while making Anakin's sacrifice and redemption pointless by bringing Palpatine back to life.



This clip here highlights the brilliance of Star Wars. George Lucas was able to take all of this mythology and all of these archetypes and distill it down in a manner that resonates across all cultures so universally that even a dog is able to understand it. A dog is able to understand the draw of a character like Darth Vader, but the people who made the Star Wars sequel trilogy couldn't.

Today's writers want to take thousands of years worth of universally resonant themes and throw it all away because they think they know better.
They think they're too smart to tell a good versus evil story.
... and that lets you know exactly which side of the conflict they're on.