WHY WANDA VISION COULD SPELL THE BEGINNING OF:

[nightwing2016]

Well put. Thor Ragnarok had elements of Walt Simonson's run as well as Planet Hulk. Captain America and Iron Man had their origin stories ripped straight from the comics (Avengers #4 and Tales of Suspense #39). Daredevil's first season is basically Frank Miller's The Man Without Fear in live action.

Whenever studios start thinking they know better than the source material, that's when disaster strikes. Stick to the source material.



Well put. This is the same reason that Disney is messing up Star Wars.

Disney's whole stock in trade is telling happily-ever-after fairy tales, and that's not what Marvel is.
Marvel is not a happily-ever-after fairy tale. The Coming of Galactus, the Death of Gwen Stacy, Days of Future Past, the Surtur Saga, and Frank Miller's Daredevil are not happily-ever-after fairy tales. That's not what Marvel is. Same thing goes for Star Wars.

Marvel and Star Wars are both mythology-based products with morality based storytelling revolving around good versus evil.
You don't put the company that specializes in happily-ever-after fairy tales in charge of a legacy based product that that draws it's influence from mythology, spirituality, and lore that spans back thousands of years and is able to resonate across all cultures and generations.

Meanwhile, you have Disney totally character assassinating Luke Skywalker while making Anakin's sacrifice and redemption pointless by bringing Palpatine back to life.



This clip here highlights the brilliance of Star Wars. George Lucas was able to take all of this mythology and all of these archetypes and distill it down in a manner that resonates across all cultures so universally that even a dog is able to understand it. A dog is able to understand the draw of a character like Darth Vader, but the people who made the Star Wars sequel trilogy couldn't.

Today's writers want to take thousands of years worth of universally resonant themes and throw it all away because they think they know better.
They think they're too smart to tell a good versus evil story.
... and that lets you know exactly which side of the conflict they're on.

Disney has a track record of not understanding the franchises of what they buy and instead choosing to treat them like home grown properties which leads to a lot of issues. Also, when you have someone like Kathleen Kennedy who didn’t understand Star Wars and was basically checked by George Lucas in an interview about what Star Wars decided to take it in a direction that ultimately killed the brand under the guise of making it modern because it was outdated leading to the character assassination of Luke and the erasure of his legacy it turns off a lot of people attached to the franchise and made it what it was. You also have writers who are actively antagonistic to the fan base which is also the consumer base about their connection to franchise and feel entitled to their money not realizing that is not how this works. Also, you have the full embrace of post-modernism that argues that good and evil are overtly simplistic concepts and that it is all about perspectives which makes it harder for some people to write a straight up good vs evil story

 

[Art Barr]

Well put. Thor Ragnarok had elements of Walt Simonson's run as well as Planet Hulk. Captain America and Iron Man had their origin stories ripped straight from the comics (Avengers #4 and Tales of Suspense #39). Daredevil's first season is basically Frank Miller's The Man Without Fear in live action.

Whenever studios start thinking they know better than the source material, that's when disaster strikes. Stick to the source material.



Well put. This is the same reason that Disney is messing up Star Wars.

Disney's whole stock in trade is telling happily-ever-after fairy tales, and that's not what Marvel is.
Marvel is not a happily-ever-after fairy tale. The Coming of Galactus, the Death of Gwen Stacy, Days of Future Past, the Surtur Saga, and Frank Miller's Daredevil are not happily-ever-after fairy tales. That's not what Marvel is. Same thing goes for Star Wars.

Marvel and Star Wars are both mythology-based products with morality based storytelling revolving around good versus evil.
You don't put the company that specializes in happily-ever-after fairy tales in charge of a legacy based product that that draws it's influence from mythology, spirituality, and lore that spans back thousands of years and is able to resonate across all cultures and generations.

Meanwhile, you have Disney totally character assassinating Luke Skywalker while making Anakin's sacrifice and redemption pointless by bringing Palpatine back to life.



This clip here highlights the brilliance of Star Wars. George Lucas was able to take all of this mythology and all of these archetypes and distill it down in a manner that resonates across all cultures so universally that even a dog is able to understand it. A dog is able to understand the draw of a character like Darth Vader, but the people who made the Star Wars sequel trilogy couldn't.

Today's writers want to take thousands of years worth of universally resonant themes and throw it all away because they think they know better.
They think they're too smart to tell a good versus evil story.
... and that lets you know exactly which side of the conflict they're on.

Just prolific posting


Art Barr

 

[Days of Future Piff]

Disney has a track record of not understanding the franchises of what they buy and instead choosing to treat them like home grown properties which leads to a lot of issues. Also, when you have someone like Kathleen Kennedy who didn’t understand Star Wars and was basically checked by George Lucas in an interview about what Star Wars decided to take it in a direction that ultimately killed the brand under the guise of making it modern because it was outdated leading to the character assassination of Luke and the erasure of his legacy it turns off a lot of people attached to the franchise and made it what it was. You also have writers who are actively antagonistic to the fan base which is also the consumer base about their connection to franchise and feel entitled to their money not realizing that is not how this works. Also, you have the full embrace of post-modernism that argues that good and evil are overtly simplistic concepts and that it is all about perspectives which makes it harder for some people to write a straight up good vs evil story

This is why anime >>>
There's a reason why young people are watching DBZ, Attack on Titan, Naruto, One Piece, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Hunter x Hunter instead of Disney Star Wars and the current MCU.

What appeal is there for a young person on these posters? Who's their main attraction? Which character on either poster would any kid want to play with a toy of?

I can tell you it's definitely not Rey, because she's way too perfect and the audience can't relate to her. We don't find out who she is until the end of the third movie. She never had that Uncle Ben "Great Responsibility" moment which would have made her a compelling audience draw like Luke. When Luke became a Jedi, it felt earned because we saw the blood sweat and tears.
Speaking of Luke, he's not the draw either, because the only things he did were drink alien teat milk, give up, abandon his friends, and die like a punk.
Han, Luke, and Leia never got their proper reunion, so they're not the draw.
It's not Finn, because he got jobbed out at the end of the first movie in the trilogy and did nothing interesting after the fact.
Kylo isn't the draw, because he lost ALL of his cool points the INSTANT his mask came off.
It isn't Snoke, since he got killed off before we learned anything about him.

So who is the main attraction? Who is the protagonist, and why should anybody care about these characters when they could be watching Goku and Vegeta instead? Or Naruto fighting against Pein? or Luffy using Gear 5 against Kaido? Or Levi fighting the Beast Titan?



Is it a friend of mine? Is it my brother?

 

[Software]

This is why anime >>>
There's a reason why young people are watching DBZ, Attack on Titan, Naruto, One Piece, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Hunter x Hunter instead of Disney Star Wars and the current MCU.

What appeal is there for a young person on these posters? Who's their main attraction? Which character on either poster would any kid want to play with a toy of?

I can tell you it's definitely not Rey, because she's way too perfect and the audience can't relate to her. We don't find out who she is until the end of the third movie. She never had that Uncle Ben "Great Responsibility" moment which would have made her a compelling audience draw like Luke. When Luke became a Jedi, it felt earned because we saw the blood sweat and tears.
Speaking of Luke, he's not the draw either, because the only things he did were drink alien teat milk, give up, abandon his friends, and die like a punk.
Han, Luke, and Leia never got their proper reunion, so they're not the draw.
It's not Finn, because he got jobbed out at the end of the first movie in the trilogy and did nothing interesting after the fact.
Kylo isn't the draw, because he lost ALL of his cool points the INSTANT his mask came off.
It isn't Snoke, since he got killed off before we learned anything about him.

So who is the main attraction? Who is the protagonist, and why should anybody care about these characters when they could be watching Goku and Vegeta instead? Or Naruto fighting against Pein? or Luffy using Gear 5 against Kaido? Or Levi fighting the Beast Titan?



Is it a friend of mine? Is it my brother?

Truth. Sometimes people just wanna see a good story with their favorite characters doing things they wish they could do and be the people they could be. Luke was an everyman who has destiny thrust upon him and was nowhere near perfect but has his heart in the right place and had issues regular people could relate to (family, uncle figure dying, coming of age, etc.). This is what movies like into the spiderverse capture so well. People want a hero they feel like they can be. Miles isn't perfect but his heart is in the right place. It's why spider-man still crushes the box office even after 10 movies cuz the character is beloved and hits the boxes people wanna see.

 

[Rekkapryde]

They have to make power pack and ground the marvel universe into what marvel is ultimately about.
which is family.
By bringing in fantastic four and Franklin with a power pack movie.

To hammer home the family aesthetician.

You can not have a marvel universe with the level of cosmic and intergalactic big bad without Reed Richard's. It just does not work and it is a main reason.
why the current movies and series. have been met with such disdain.


Art Barr

They’d fukk up Power Pack too

 

[nightwing2016]

This is why anime >>>
There's a reason why young people are watching DBZ, Attack on Titan, Naruto, One Piece, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Hunter x Hunter instead of Disney Star Wars and the current MCU.

What appeal is there for a young person on these posters? Who's their main attraction? Which character on either poster would any kid want to play with a toy of?

I can tell you it's definitely not Rey, because she's way too perfect and the audience can't relate to her. We don't find out who she is until the end of the third movie. She never had that Uncle Ben "Great Responsibility" moment which would have made her a compelling audience draw like Luke. When Luke became a Jedi, it felt earned because we saw the blood sweat and tears.
Speaking of Luke, he's not the draw either, because the only things he did were drink alien teat milk, give up, abandon his friends, and die like a punk.
Han, Luke, and Leia never got their proper reunion, so they're not the draw.
It's not Finn, because he got jobbed out at the end of the first movie in the trilogy and did nothing interesting after the fact.
Kylo isn't the draw, because he lost ALL of his cool points the INSTANT his mask came off.
It isn't Snoke, since he got killed off before we learned anything about him.

So who is the main attraction? Who is the protagonist, and why should anybody care about these characters when they could be watching Goku and Vegeta instead? Or Naruto fighting against Pein? or Luffy using Gear 5 against Kaido? Or Levi fighting the Beast Titan?



Is it a friend of mine? Is it my brother?

This is all true, they don’t get the basic structure of the heroes journey because they believe it is outdated or at the very least unimportant as they focus on the end results and not the beginning like with luke. Mark Hamill even mentioned this with Rey saying she didn’t even spend anytime on dagobah learning from anyone. Another difference between manga/anime and America media is that manga especially are playing this we just making stuff to make stuff damned what the target demographics says. Manga industry will have you on the streets after two months, there are plenty of interesting concepts in manga that get cancelled because they just didn’t go anywhere. There is no way any company would lose a billion dollars like Star Wars and it be business at usually after the first flop there would be a major meeting and stuff would get cleaned up.

That is why comicbooks have died marvel and dc have decided that the way things were done and the things their traditional fanbase wants don’t matter, same with Star Wars and we have seen the results

 

[nightwing2016]

They’d fukk up Power Pack too

They really did and it was such a fun read too. It also makes no sense that they are all adults and Franklin who was their peer is still a kid.

 

[Days of Future Piff]

Truth. Sometimes people just wanna see a good story with their favorite characters doing things they wish they could do and be the people they could be. Luke was an everyman who has destiny thrust upon him and was nowhere near perfect but has his heart in the right place and had issues regular people could relate to (family, uncle figure dying, coming of age, etc.). This is what movies like into the spiderverse capture so well. People want a hero they feel like they can be. Miles isn't perfect but his heart is in the right place. It's why spider-man still crushes the box office even after 10 movies cuz the character is beloved and hits the boxes people wanna see.

Yeah, the Spider-verse movies were both excellent. Much better than any of the current Marvel material IMO.

This is all true, they don’t get the basic structure of the heroes journey because they believe it is outdated or at the very least unimportant as they focus on the end results and not the beginning like with luke. Mark Hamill even mentioned this with Rey saying she didn’t even spend anytime on dagobah learning from anyone. Another difference between manga/anime and America media is that manga especially are playing this we just making stuff to make stuff damned what the target demographics says. Manga industry will have you on the streets after two months, there are plenty of interesting concepts in manga that get cancelled because they just didn’t go anywhere. There is no way any company would lose a billion dollars like Star Wars and it be business at usually after the first flop there would be a major meeting and stuff would get cleaned up.

That is why comicbooks have died marvel and dc have decided that the way things were done and the things their traditional fanbase wants don’t matter, same with Star Wars and we have seen the results

Post modern deconstruction can be cool when it’s done right, like with Watchmen or Metal Gear Solid, but Star Wars was never that kind of story.

Luke was more compelling as a character because we saw the blood sweat and tears he went through to earn his Jedi knighthood.
He tried to challenge Vader too early and took that L in Empire. The excitement of the story was watching Luke recover from that L and become a noble hero in the end.




You could time travel to any era/culture and show them this ending scene to Return of the Jedi. Medieval knights, feudal samurai, African kings and queens, French aristocrats, peasants in the streets, tribes living in the rainforests would all be able to watch this and see that Luke did something honorable. All of them would be able to see that Vader’s redemption meant something because that ending was morally resonant across all cultures and generations.

Compare that to Rey who just obliterates Palpatine with a giant kamehameaha blast in the end… which makes no sense. The only person strong enough to beat Palpatine in a straight fight was Mace Windu. How is Rey that strong after only a year of training? How are the sequel characters inventing all of these new powers with the force that the old Jedi in the prequels never knew about?

I don’t have any issues with Daisy Ridley, Kelly Marie Tran, and Moses Ingaram themselves. None of them deserve to be harassed by racists or he man woman haters in real life because of their roles in these movies/shows. The real problem isn’t them, it’s Disney and their complete mismanagement of the franchise.

On a side note, I hate the “go broke go woke” talking point because it’s it’s such a bad faith argument. The people throwing that phrase around are almost always on that MAGA wave ( ) and always have something slick to say any time they see a lead character in a movie that’s black or brown, or a woman, and that’s not the problem. The writing is the real issue.
The only thing these “go woke go broke” people are right about is that you can’t cater your product solely to the tastes of a vocal minority on twitter if you want to sustain your business. There needs to be a general audience appeal.

Nobody wants to watch a whole show about Agatha Harkness instead of Goku fighting Frieza on Namek.

 

[Art Barr]

Yeah, the Spider-verse movies were both excellent. Much better than any of the current Marvel material IMO.



Post modern deconstruction can be cool when it’s done right, like with Watchmen or Metal Gear Solid, but Star Wars was never that kind of story.

Luke was more compelling as a character because we saw the blood sweat and tears he went through to earn his Jedi knighthood.
He tried to challenge Vader too early and took that L in Empire. The excitement of the story was watching Luke recover from that L and become a noble hero in the end.




You could time travel to any era/culture and show them this ending scene to Return of the Jedi. Medieval knights, feudal samurai, African kings and queens, French aristocrats, peasants in the streets, tribes living in the rainforests would all be able to watch this and see that Luke did something honorable. All of them would be able to see that Vader’s redemption meant something because that ending was morally resonant across all cultures and generations.

Compare that to Rey who just obliterates Palpatine with a giant kamehameaha blast in the end… which makes no sense. The only person strong enough to beat Palpatine in a straight fight was Mace Windu. How is Rey that strong after only a year of training? How are the sequel characters inventing all of these new powers with the force that the old Jedi in the prequels never knew about?

I don’t have any issues with Daisy Ridley, Kelly Marie Tran, and Moses Ingaram themselves. None of them deserve to be harassed by racists or he man woman haters in real life because of their roles in these movies/shows. The real problem isn’t them, it’s Disney and their complete mismanagement of the franchise.

On a side note, I hate the “go broke go woke” talking point because it’s it’s such a bad faith argument. The people throwing that phrase around are almost always on that MAGA wave ( ) and always have something slick to say any time they see a lead character in a movie that’s black or brown, or a woman, and that’s not the problem. The writing is the real issue.
The only thing these “go woke go broke” people are right about is that you can’t cater your product solely to the tastes of a vocal minority on twitter if you want to sustain your business. There needs to be a general audience appeal.

[BOLD]Nobody wants to watch a whole show about Agatha Harkness instead of Goku fighting Frieza on Namek.[/BOLD]

@Days of Future Piff


You dropped prophecy breh.


Disney still does not understand to drop this scarlet witch bullshyt.

Plus the longer they keep it apound. It ruins the product. Just like Marvel declining in rapid descent.


Art Barr

 

[Days of Future Piff]

@Days of Future Piff


You dropped prophecy breh.


Disney still does not understand to drop this scarlet witch bullshyt.

Plus the longer they keep it apound. It ruins the product. Just like Marvel declining in rapid descent.


Art Barr

A more prolific poster than me did it first


It's amazing that Disney could greenlight the Agatha show but they're still taking ten thousand millenia with Blade (a project that people actually wanted).
Then they collectively scratch their heads wondering why kids are all watching anime instead of their stuff.

Regular people want Blade, Fantastic Four, X-men, Doom Galactus, and a return to Jim Shooter-styled, pre-Image exodus based Marvel storytelling.
Until Marvel gets the message and comes correct, they're going to continue to struggle because regular people never asked for Agatha. Only Twitter wanted Agatha. These blue-ticks on Twitter don't speak for the culture.
The only recent Marvel anything I see any young people talking about is Deadpool and Wolverine--because those characters are an audience draw. Outside of that...


Hollywood is so morally disconnected that that they can't even put themselves in the frame of mind to write a virtuous character anymore. So instead they either "subvert" all the heroes or kill them off. See how dirty they did Luke Skywalker? See how they took all the morality out of Star Wars with the Acolyte?

It's just like you sad in the other thread... you have too many "pagan" () fanfic authors on Twitter who are only writing these stories for each other instead of cultivating an audience draw that will hook regular people, especially kids.
Kids want to see heroes, villains, epic adventures, fighting, and real storytelling with a moral compass.

I don't know one kid in existence who is checking for this Agatha show. They're all watching Demon Slayer, Jujsu Kaisen, My Hero Academia, and One Piece.

Real talk... I unsubscribed from Disney Plus and got Crunchyroll instead. Jujutsu Kaisen Season 2 is heatrocks