Why the Republicans just don't get it (Minimum Wage)

[Blackking]

@DEAD7 this will be in response to your post as well...i'm just not gonna clutter up the thread by quoting all that.


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The people elect the government, the government is controlled by corporations, the people are manipulated by corporations (see my post on marketing), the people are responsible for their actions, but are also essentially being brainwashed.

Who then do we blame?
The people for not changing things and being maniplated...
The government for being controlled by corporations...
The corporations for manipulating people and controlling the government?

Here's where i'm finding myself right now.
I blame the people. HOWEVER, the actions of the corporations are still wrong and the action of the government are also wrong.

Chicken and the egg though really...

i agree.

if i was on a gop fourm.. i would be arguing ur points. Or a business forum.

on a hip hop fourm,,, or really any other forum, all that is counterproductive.



I will say this though. It's easier to brainwash someone than to get out of that brainwashing.

 

[DEAD7]

@DEAD7
The people elect the government, the government is controlled by corporations, the people are manipulated by corporations (see my post on marketing), the people are responsible for their actions, but are also essentially being brainwashed.

This is where you are wrong. No one controls the govt. but the govt.(and the people). Corporations cant pass laws, or do any more than govt. allows. You are trying to give govt. a pass for accepting money from big business.
Making it legal to buy a politicians, then accepting the money and voting correspondingly is 100% on govt.

If it was legal to goal tend, players will goal tend. if it is legal to go off sides or hold players will do it. You would be putting yourself at a disadvantage not doing so. Its up to the rule makers and referees to cut the nonsense out and make sure the game is fair.

 

[Brown_Pride]

This is where you are wrong. No one controls the govt. but the govt.(and the people). Corporations cant pass laws, or do any more than govt. allows. You are trying to give govt. a pass for accepting money from big business.
Making it legal to buy a politicians, then accepting the money and voting correspondingly is 100% on govt.

If it was legal to goal tend, players will goal tend. if it is legal to go off sides or hold players will do it. You would be putting yourself at a disadvantage not doing so. Its up to the rule makers and referees to cut the nonsense out and make sure the game is fair.

Yes and no. This is the circular argument i'm talking about. YES the government makes the decisions and the people elect the government BUT the government is SEVERELY influenced by corporations, denying this is just silly.

In your analogy the players are also the rule makers or at least weigh heavily in the decision making process to the detriment of the game. Imagine the NBA with 5 foot rims. The game would suck BUT my bet is scoring, particularly for big men, would sky rocket.

As i said before, you can play coy all you want but the reality is that RIGHT NOW government and corporations are more intermingled than not.

 

[DEAD7]

Yes and no. This is the circular argument i'm talking about. YES the government makes the decisions and the people elect the government BUT the government is SEVERELY influenced by corporations, denying this is just silly.

In your analogy the players are also the rule makers or at least weigh heavily in the decision making process to the detriment of the game. Imagine the NBA with 5 foot rims. The game would suck BUT my bet is scoring, particularly for big men, would sky rocket.

As i said before, you can play coy all you want but the reality is that RIGHT NOW government and corporations are more intermingled than not.

If i'm elected by the people, and i allow influence to make me act against their best interest. I'm at fault, not the influence.

Come on. We got to hold elected officials responsible, passing the buck to the guy who said, "hey ill give u this, if you fukk the people over" is only going to do what it is doing now. Continuing the cycle.

Its like saying i was strongly influenced by rap music, so i shot some one. Same argument, and i think both are ridiculous.

We must demand integrity from our officials, business's are gonna business.

 

[Brown_Pride]

If i'm elected by the people, and i allow influence to make me act against their best interest. I'm at fault, not the influence.

Come on. We got to hold elected officials responsible, passing the buck to the guy who said, "hey ill give u this, if you fukk the people over" is only going to do what it is doing now. Continuing the cycle.

Its like saying i was strongly influenced by rap music, so i shot some one. Same argument, and i think both are ridiculous.

We must demand integrity from our officials, business's are gonna business.

i agree, but we're passed the point of business being business and government being government. They intermingled now more than ever, they have slowly influenced and changed the rules to the point that they are now dictating how many things are legislated. I'm not passing the buck on responsibility either, i'm just proportioning it out. What you're saying is that because the girl (government) got drunk and wore a short skirt well then it's her fault the guy (corporations) forced himself on her.

...maybe not the perfect analogy; the point being it's not ONE parts fault, they're all to blame. What you're saying is it has NOTHING to do with corporations, i refuse to believe you're that myopic

 

[DEAD7]

i agree, but we're passed the point of business being business and government being government. They intermingled now more than ever, they have slowly influenced and changed the rules to the point that they are now dictating how many things are legislated. I'm not passing the buck on responsibility either, i'm just proportioning it out. What you're saying is that because the girl (government) got drunk and wore a short skirt well then it's her fault the guy (corporations) forced himself on her.

...maybe not the perfect analogy; the point being it's not ONE parts fault, they're all to blame. What you're saying is it has NOTHING to do with corporations, i refuse to believe you're that myopic

We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

The acceptance of this as fact, in my opinion, is at the heart of 90% of the nations ills.

Using your analogy the girl would also have the ability to make raping impossible... but she opts not to, because she thinks she's a big girl and can handle it.

The endless mind numbing stream of propaganda pointing the finger at business for playing by the rules govt. makes is hard to cut through. I get it.
But we cant lose site of who is actually running the game. Govt.

 

[Brown_Pride]

But we cant lose site of who is actually running the game. Govt.

because industry is completely NOT involved in government
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Government-industry_revolving_door
http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving../top.php?display=Z
http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving/reverse.php
you're smarter than this.

 

[DEAD7]

because industry is completely NOT involved in government
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Government-industry_revolving_door
http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving../top.php?display=Z

you're smarter than this.

From your link:
"Under current law, government officials who make contracting decisions must either wait a year before joining a military contractor or, if they want to switch immediately, must start in an affiliate or division unrelated to their government work. One big loophole is that these restrictions do not apply to many high-level policy makers..., who can join corporations or their boards without waiting."

Who do you think institutes these laws? the guys it doesnt apply to?

You dont think its by Govt. design? You cant see its protected and perpetuated by Govt. itself?

My niqqa! Government is holding all the cards, all the keys, everything. The are the gatekeepers. None of this happens without their ok! literally!They vote to ok this shyt!

 

[Brown_Pride]

From your link:
"Under current law, government officials who make contracting decisions must either wait a year before joining a military contractor or, if they want to switch immediately, must start in an affiliate or division unrelated to their government work. One big loophole is that these restrictions do not apply to many high-level policy makers..., who can join corporations or their boards without waiting."

Who do you think institutes these laws? the guys it doesnt apply to?

You dont think its by Govt. design? You cant see its protected and perpetuated by Govt. itself?

My niqqa! Government is holding all the cards, all the keys, everything. The are the gatekeepers. None of this happens without their ok! literally!They vote to ok this shyt!

lol What does that quote prove? Did you read the bolded? Oh they have to wait a year? WOOooWWWW a whole year? and better yet the rule does not apply to "HIGH LEVEL POLICY MAKERS"

YES the government makes the rules, who do you think fills up the government ya fool.
You're an idiot if you make sense out of spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to get a job that pays THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS and NOT tie it back to the people who fronted the money in the first fukin place. You think they donate money out of principle?

Like i said i refuse to believe you're so close minded as to pretend corporations don't affect government.

 

[DEAD7]

lol What does that quote prove? Did you read the bolded? Oh they have to wait a year? WOOooWWWW a whole year? and better yet the rule does not apply to "HIGH LEVEL POLICY MAKERS"

YES the government makes the rules, who do you think fills up the government ya fool.
You're an idiot if you make sense out of spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to get a job that pays THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS and NOT tie it back to the people who fronted the money in the first fukin place. You think they donate money out of principle?

Like i said i refuse to believe you're so close minded as to pretend corporations don't affect government.

The quote shows that lawmakers were/are aware of the issue, and took steps to address it. They just conveniently left themselves out. You're trying to tell me that it isnt their fault they left themselves out, and keep it possible for politicians to be bought, its big business which has no means of stopping it thats at fault... do you hear yourself?
You are trying to blame for business for a legal practice, that they have zero incentive not to do. Like how does that make sense? Its perfectly legal, and increases the bottom line, and your faulting a business for doing it?


its Govt. that should have no part of it.

Once your elected to represent the people, what you did previously doesnt matter. Thats just an excuse for ignoring your responsibility. You take an oath(something big corps dont do) and you should be held to it 100%.

I think lobbying should be illegal. Period... and only one half of the equation has any say in this...

 

[Brown_Pride]

The quote shows that lawmakers were/are aware of the issue, and took steps to address it. They just conveniently left themselves out. You're trying to tell me that it isnt their fault they left themselves out, and keep it possible for politicians to be bought, its big business which has no means of stopping it thats at fault... do you hear yourself?
You are trying to blame for business for a legal practice, that they have zero incentive not to do. Like how does that make sense? Its perfectly legal, and increases the bottom line, and your faulting a business for doing it?

its Govt. that should have no part of it.

Once your elected to represent the people, what you did previously doesnt matter. Thats just an excuse for ignoring your responsibility. You take an oath(something big corps dont do) and you should be held to it 100%.

.

no i'm telling you plain and simply that the ones left out are also the ones in bed with the ones that are buying so much so that they are the ones that are buying. You seam to have this idea that there are two separate parties GOVERNMENT and BUSINESS.

My whole argument is that they are damn near the same thing.

I think lobbying should be illegal. Period... and only one half of the equation has any say in this..

YES it should be. You're also diluting yourself if you think politicians ONLY answer to their constituents.

 

[DEAD7]

no i'm telling you plain and simply that the ones left out are also the ones in bed with the ones that are buying so much so that they are the ones that are buying. You seam to have this idea that there are two separate parties GOVERNMENT and BUSINESS.

My whole argument is that they are damn near the same thing.

YES it should be. You're also diluting yourself if you think politicians ONLY answer to their constituents.

Do we agree that they should?

 

[Brown_Pride]

Do we agree that they should?

Depends on what you would call a "constituent".
People yes. We vote.
Companies? No. They're immortal and can't vote but through the lobby...which as it turns out is more effective in affecting an end result that the actual vote.

 

[DEAD7]

Depends on what you would call a "constituent".
People yes. We vote.
Companies? No. They're immortal and can't vote but through the lobby...which as it turns out is more effective in affecting an end result that the actual vote.

Ok we agree.

Now for the iffy part, to whom do business's answer, or to whom should they answer?

In your opinion of course.

 

[DStyles]

Raise minimum wage to $8 but in no way do I agree that Wal-Mart or McDonalds employees should be earning more than $10 unless they have been there for 3+ years or so.

They have kids and a family to raise? Too bad sucka, should've gotten your degree before starting a family