Why doesn't God reveal himself to those who don't believe? (3 min.VID)

IVS

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Do not trust the serpent. Who is the serpent is what you should be asking :mjpls:

Well the serpent did not lie. They ate the fruit of the tree and they did not die (as the God of the Old Testament said they would), instead their eyes were opened - just as the serpent had said - and they realized they were naked (amongst other things). Second of all, the serpent taught Eve who in turn taught Adam (what they learned I cannot say). Remember the serpent was more crafty\shrewd than other beast. The serpent is a very Lucifer (light bringer) like character.

After digesting the knowledge imparted by "eating" from the tree, Adam know's Eve and they seek to clothe themselves (which they do with the leaves of a fig tree). Now God told them to be fruitful and multiply at their inception, yet they did not do so until the serpent visits them in the garden.
 

Everythingg

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Nope, that is your posting style TO A TEE. When I posted just smileys, I was doing an caricature of YOU. It wasn't a serious response. Sorry that went over your head :laugh:

Except I never simply posted smilies towards you with no words. YOU DID :camby:

No, what is your justification for the claim that the US will never be able to pay off its debt.

I thought I just explained it? They print money that they loan to the US at interest. That means every dollar in circulation could not ever pay off the interest because each of those dollars was loaned at interest to the US.

The Fed the US's central banking system. It prints money and gives it to the banks to loan out to people. There is nothing inherently bad about creating debt. How that corporation or individual pays back that debt depends on the reason they take out a loan in the first place.

Breh, there is nothing positive about the amount of debt the US has. Why you're trying to argue otherwise, is dumbfounding.


I'm not interested in discussing conspiracy theories. My point was Barack Obama is a pretty good black role model.

:mjlol: Who's talking conspiracy theories? What kind of role model says one thing but does another? Remember when Barack said we would remove the troops from Afghanistan when he got into office? A role model is a man that stands on his own two feet. Not pandering to other people's interests.


Yes, that's exactly what it means. To ignore something means to PAY NO ATTENTION TO IT. NOT PAYING TOO LITTLE ATTENTION. You've said science, like the world does to Africa, ignores all of those supernatural events. Either you don't understand what it means to intentionally disregard, or .... no, I'm convinced you just don't know what it means.

Intentionally disregard means to purposely not take notice. Too much of semantics breh.

Again a myth is a widely held, but false belief. The stereotype is that all or most black men don't take care of their kids. The facts DON'T line up with that belief. The word "MYTH" perfectly fits this example.

Just stop with the semantics. Whether or not we call it a stereotype or a myth the fact remains that it's not a big of a problem as some make it out to be.

:mjlol: So you can play semantics with "ignore" but I cant with "myth"? Not that I was though. Myth implies false/untrue. It is not false to say that the black community has a problem with absentee fathers. Its often exaggerated, but there is truth to it.

So do I, but you haven't justified why you think it's leading to a worse place.

Yes I have. But people think that because we have cool amenities like AC, phones, or whatever that its not. I've already pointed out that imperialism is happening across the world. I mean, what do you think the end goal is of imperialism? Freedom for the whole world?

Whatever nikka.

:ehh:


I already did, and my answer was 'yes, they do'.

You have a warped sense of freedom then. In no way is making a garden that feeds people and provides natural means of medicine supposed to be against the law. And feeding the homeless? :mjlol: Again, there is no way that feeding the poor, sick, needy etc... is supposed to be against the law.

But what we have here is you believing that the US is free. So you justify those things as supposed to have been happening in free countries. IF Im wrong, please explain what is exactly wrong with either situation? Just based off the info in the links what is inherently wrong? Disregarding made up laws that humans make that make those things illegal or make it where you have to have a permit or whatever. What is wrong with one growing their own garden or feeding the homeless who would be the most in need of food?
 

Everythingg

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Bingo!

I wonder why?

A false sense of pride distorts and corrupts the proper perspective in relation to each other and GOD

A false sense of pride comes naturally to mankind

Who first exhibited pride?...lucifer...his pride created his competitive nature...his discontent....his desire for more power......his desire to be above GOD.......his pride created his ill feelings toward GOD

What happened in the garden of Eden?...satan brought pride to mankind

I see connections...

Inferiority complex(hides feelings of superiority) related to his time in heaven or/and his feelings toward GOD

Superiority complex(hides feelings of inferiority) related to his time on earth or/and his feelings toward mankind

Satan spoke to eve(superiority complex)

Adam listened(inferiority complex)



That's the importance of Jesus perfect humility....transforming us back in the image of GOD


His humility is our salvation(the proper perspective)
His salvation is our humility(the proper perspective)

You know what you said makes sense :ehh: I never thought of it this way but its in interesting take. The thing about it is there are many ways to see the story of the fall. And I think finding the meaning is more important then finding out whether it happened or not...

I dont agree with the Jesus part though. Doesnt seem to match up 100% as you would think it would if he was who they say they are.
 

Everythingg

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Well the serpent did not lie. They ate the fruit of the tree and they did not die (as the God of the Old Testament said they would), instead their eyes were opened - just as the serpent had said - and they realized they were naked (amongst other things). Second of all, the serpent taught Eve who in turn taught Adam (what they learned I cannot say). Remember the serpent was more crafty\shrewd than other beast. The serpent is a very Lucifer (light bringer) like character.

After digesting the knowledge imparted by "eating" from the tree, Adam know's Eve and they seek to clothe themselves (which they do with the leaves of a fig tree). Now God told them to be fruitful and multiply at their inception, yet they did not do so until the serpent visits them in the garden.

I disagree. The serpent did lie:

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Did they not die? As well, if we go by Psalms 90:4 that says 1 day is 1000 years to God, did they die in a day? :shaq:

Im not sure what you were getting at concerning the last sentence. Mind elaborating?
 

Everythingg

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And this is retarded. It's not just that he's a Harvard grad (which does give him a bit more credibility), but it's that his work was released in the marketplace of ideas, thoroughly critiqued and reviewed by his peers, and most of his positions hold weight. Enough experts agree that his positions are justified. This is why an individual doesn't have to do an experiment to know the science is valid. The process is such that good ideas usually stay around and are considered "true" when agreed upon by the consensus, while wrong or bad ideas are generally modified or dropped after receiving enough criticism.

Actually III said in post 453 in the thread that the proof that he is telling the truth is his degree (paraphrased). Thats weak. And what you said is also weak. You're taking his word without reviewing his sources? :scusthov: I thought atheists needed to see proof before believing anything?
 

NoMayo15

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I thought I just explained it? They print money that they loan to the US at interest. That means every dollar in circulation could not ever pay off the interest because each of those dollars was loaned at interest to the US. Breh, there is nothing positive about the amount of debt the US has. Why you're trying to argue otherwise, is dumbfounding.

It's dumbfounding because you don't understand monetary policy. You see borrowing as a total loss, and ignore the benefits.

Who's talking conspiracy theories? What kind of role model says one thing but does another? Remember when Barack said we would remove the troops from Afghanistan when he got into office? A role model is a man that stands on his own two feet. Not pandering to other people's interests.

I'm not going to debate the president's policies. What he's accomplished is admirable in it's own right.

Intentionally disregard means to purposely not take notice. Too much of semantics breh.

Exactly. Not taking notice and taking a little notice are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Just admit you were wrong, and move on.

So you can play semantics with "ignore" but I cant with "myth"? Not that I was though. Myth implies false/untrue. It is not false to say that the black community has a problem with absentee fathers. Its often exaggerated, but there is truth to it.

No, you were playing semantics with "ignore" just as you're doing with "myth". It's all just you.

Absenteeism of black fathers does not occur at a significantly higher rate than any other race. The notion that it does is a myth. That's all I said.

Yes I have. But people think that because we have cool amenities like AC, phones, or whatever that its not. I've already pointed out that imperialism is happening across the world. I mean, what do you think the end goal is of imperialism? Freedom for the whole world?

But, as we've already pointed out, the things you complain about are trending towards occurring less frequently. Imperialism, police brutality, overall racism -- You're just listing things without explaining anything. There have been empires that ended. What makes you think it will go back to the way it was?



You keep pleading for evidence from others, but I have yet to see you post anything that supports your claims through-out this thread.




You have a warped sense of freedom then. In no way is making a garden that feeds people and provides natural means of medicine supposed to be against the law. And feeding the homeless Again, there is no way that feeding the poor, sick, needy etc... is supposed to be against the law.

I have no idea what was in that garden, nor do I know the statues around keeping a garden where she lived. If such a law is in place, then it's probably because the consenus decided it would be better that no one grew things in that area. If she wanted a garden that bad, she's certainly free to MOVE and do what she wants where it IS allowed. Freedom doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want, where ever. As far as I know, she might have been growing an illegal drug. Again, I don't know, nor care about the specifics of that story.

I see the world a bit differently than you. I see the pros and cons for every issue. I can understand why a community might not want to allow some of these things. If you want to grow a garden, I'm sure they allow that in certain other places around OK. If you want to feed homeless, I'm betting there are ways to do so without giving it to them in the park. Nothing is wrong with those things, but they are probably more complicated than just "government harassing people exercising their rights".
 

NoMayo15

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Actually III said in post 453 in the thread that the proof that he is telling the truth is his degree (paraphrased). Thats weak. And what you said is also weak. You're taking his word without reviewing his sources? :scusthov: I thought atheists needed to see proof before believing anything?

I don't have to, actual experts reviewed his sources. They have some legitimate criticisms, but that's neither here nor there. You don't understand the position of the atheist... of the skeptic.
 

Everythingg

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It's dumbfounding because you don't understand monetary policy. You see borrowing as a total loss, and ignore the benefits.

If you can, explain how borrowing to the excess of 17 trillion dollars (last I looked, could be more by now) is positive.


I'm not going to debate the president's policies. What he's accomplished is admirable in it's own right.

Lol you said he is a role model right? What kind of role model lies and doesnt stand on his own two feet?

Exactly. Not taking notice and taking a little notice are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Just admit you were wrong, and move on.

The definition of ignore includes to intentionally disregard.

No, you were playing semantics with "ignore" just as you're doing with "myth". It's all just you.

Lol how did I play semantics with ignore if you're the one complaining about it?
Absenteeism of black fathers does not occur at a significantly higher rate than any other race. The notion that it does is a myth. That's all I said.

I never said it did. I just brought up that it is a problem especially since we are a minority that isnt looked at as equals. This means we need a full household even more so then whites. Hispanics as well...

But, as we've already pointed out, the things you complain about are trending towards occurring less frequently. Imperialism, police brutality, overall racism -- You're just listing things without explaining anything. There have been empires that ended. What makes you think it will go back to the way it was?

How is imperialism happening any less? Again Gaddaffi mean anything? Heck, Africa is proof of it. Alot of countries there have puppet gov'ts that do not work in their own people's interests but work to foreign interests.


You keep pleading for evidence from others, but I have yet to see you post anything that supports your claims through-out this thread.

Where have I said no to or ignored anyone that asked for support for a claim I made?


I have no idea what was in that garden, nor do I know the statues around keeping a garden where she lived. If such a law is in place, then it's probably because the consenus decided it would be better that no one grew things in that area. If she wanted a garden that bad, she's certainly free to MOVE and do what she wants where it IS allowed. Freedom doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want, where ever. As far as I know, she might have been growing an illegal drug. Again, I don't know, nor care about the specifics of that story.

I see the world a bit differently than you. I see the pros and cons for every issue. I can understand why a community might not want to allow some of these things. If you want to grow a garden, I'm sure they allow that in certain other places around OK. If you want to feed homeless, I'm betting there are ways to do so without giving it to them in the park. Nothing is wrong with those things, but they are probably more complicated than just "government harassing people exercising their rights".

Thats why I said going by whats in the link how could it be illegal to do those things in a "free" country? Those are invasion of rights breh. No matter how you want to slice it. Sure, shes growing drugs? Wheres that in the link? Didnt see that. Therefore, if she s growing food and medicinal herbs, she should be free to do that in a FREE country. Then again, this country is not free as people believe which those two cases exemplify.

Oh I get it that you see it differently. Thats to say the least. But a garden that is used for food and self preservation should be legal period on someone's own property. Just as someone that wants to feed a homeless person should be free to do that as well. But you say theres nothing wrong with it but its more complicated then _______________. So you admit that theres nothing wrong in either of the links yet our gov't obviously believes otherwise....:shaq2:
 

Everythingg

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I don't have to, actual experts reviewed his sources. They have some legitimate criticisms, but that's neither here nor there. You don't understand the position of the atheist... of the skeptic.

:mjlol:
This is a first. All I ever hear from atheists is that they do not believe anything without proof. I already knew that was :duck: but Im glad you and the other guy displayed that it was :duck: as well. Dont have to check his sources, dont have to answer any questions posed towards the study. Nothing. Just believe in and then expect me to watch a 20 minute video so I can figure the sources... :camby:

I understand your position just fine. Just dont agree with it.
 

NoMayo15

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If you can, explain how borrowing to the excess of 17 trillion dollars (last I looked, could be more by now) is positive.

Everything we've spent money on, plus keeping taxes low for the past couple of decades, for example. Not being forced to enact policies that would have put us in another great depression in '08 (though we're pretty close). Whether or not everything we put on credit was wise is another conversation altogether.

Lol you said he is a role model right? What kind of role model lies and doesnt stand on his own two feet?

Direct me to one man that's never told a lie. That never had to go back on a promise. Throw in the fact that he's a politician, and he's mostly bound by the will of others. You make it seem like he's purposely deceitful. It's politics, man, grow up. In reality, everyone has gone back on their word at some point, and everyone has made mistakes. That doesn't mean someone is a despicable human being. What he's accomplished has far surpassed anything you or I have done, and it's something a young black person can strive to do as well.

The definition of ignore includes to intentionally disregard.

Yes. Do you know what the word disregard means?

Lol how did I play semantics with ignore if you're the one complaining about it?

Because you refuse to admit you're wrong because you don't know what it means to ignore something. You're playing semantics by saying you aren't wrong because you can't differentiate between ignoring something, and almost ignoring something.

Not to mention you have a completely arbitrary measurement of how much something should be studied....but that's another can of worms I'm not interested in opening.

How is imperialism happening any less? Again Gaddaffi mean anything? Heck, Africa is proof of it. Alot of countries there have puppet gov'ts that do not work in their own people's interests but work to foreign interests.

And? Again, prove that it's happening at a higher rate than it has in the past.

Where have I said no to or ignored anyone that asked for support for a claim I made?

I asked you for a source to support your claim that it's not possible for the US to pay back its debts. It would be nice if you quoted an expert in economics or some related field.

Thats why I said going by whats in the link how could it be illegal to do those things in a "free" country? Those are invasion of rights breh. No matter how you want to slice it. Sure, shes growing drugs? Wheres that in the link? Didnt see that. Therefore, if she s growing food and medicinal herbs, she should be free to do that in a FREE country. Then again, this country is not free as people believe which those two cases exemplify.

Again, I don't know the law in that part of the country. There might be a valid reason why it happened ... your source seemed biased.

Oh I get it that you see it differently. Thats to say the least. But a garden that is used for food and self preservation should be legal period on someone's own property. Just as someone that wants to feed a homeless person should be free to do that as well. But you say theres nothing wrong with it but its more complicated then _______________. So you admit that theres nothing wrong in either of the links yet our gov't obviously believes otherwise...

Right. Again, I don't know the other side of this argument.
 

NoMayo15

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This is a first. All I ever hear from atheists is that they do not believe anything without proof. I already knew that was :duck: but Im glad you and the other guy displayed that it was :duck: as well. Dont have to check his sources, dont have to answer any questions posed towards the study. Nothing. Just believe in and then expect me to watch a 20 minute video so I can figure the sources... :camby:

I understand your position just fine. Just dont agree with it.


Well then you're an idiot. Have you checked the sources of scientists who claim gravity causes bodies of mass to come together, or that there is water on other planets, or that evolution happens? If not, then I guess you can disregard it as untrue, right? :mjlol:


An individual doesn't have to check every claim to acknowledge that it's most likely true. Again, the scientific process of peer review has provided demonstrable true claims since the beginning of its implementation. I don't have to actually go to Jupiter to know that it's there. The overwhelming scientific consensus have made Jupiter's case, and agrees it's there. Experts in these fields. So it's safe for me to rely on that information, and go study what I want to.

Getting proof doesn't mean we have to be the actual scientists to look at the proof. What you theists don't understand is if I WANTED to study this stuff, I could do so. I just happened to choose a different career path, and spend most my time with that. I COULD spend the time to examine the evidence for myself. That is the major difference between science and religion. What you have is just dogma: X says Y is true, therefore it's true. Science is A says B is likely to be true. C, D and E examines it, critiques it, and agrees it's true. Therefore the general population, F - Z, can generally accept it as true as well. That's how the scientific method works.
 

Everythingg

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Everything we've spent money on, plus keeping taxes low for the past couple of decades, for example. Not being forced to enact policies that would have put us in another great depression in '08 (though we're pretty close). Whether or not everything we put on credit was wise is another conversation altogether.

Thats just passing on the debt to your children. Thats positive?

And exactly in concern with your last sentence. Most of our money goes to the defense budget.

Direct me to one man that's never told a lie. That never had to go back on a promise. Throw in the fact that he's a politician, and he's mostly bound by the will of others. You make it seem like he's purposely deceitful. It's politics, man, grow up. In reality, everyone has gone back on their word at some point, and everyone has made mistakes. That doesn't mean someone is a despicable human being. What he's accomplished has far surpassed anything you or I have done, and it's something a young black person can strive to do as well.

Breh, politicians are purposefully deceitful. So why shouldnt I hold them to a standard of being honest? Its not about him making mistakes, as I have and will, and as he has and will. Its about being honest. Not only honest about what he claimed he was going to do, but whats going on in the world and politics. The last pres we had do that was JFK. And we saw what happened to him :sadcam:

Yes. Do you know what the word disregard means?

Merriam webster does:

: to pay no attention to : treat as unworthy of regard or notice

Because you refuse to admit you're wrong because you don't know what it means to ignore something. You're playing semantics by saying you aren't wrong because you can't differentiate between ignoring something, and almost ignoring something.

Not to mention you have a completely arbitrary measurement of how much something should be studied....but that's another can of worms I'm not interested in opening.

:mjlol: Im not playing semantics thats you breh. I already explained what I meant by what I said several times. And even showed how the definition showed ignore as meaning to intentionally disregard something. Now I have posted the definition of disregard which points to treating something as unworthy of regard or notice. The only one playing semantics is you.

And? Again, prove that it's happening at a higher rate than it has in the past.

Breh its been happening and its just continuing. There are only few countries that arent under the thumb, and guess who's at war with all of them? :shaq:

I asked you for a source to support your claim that it's not possible for the US to pay back its debts. It would be nice if you quoted an expert in economics or some related field.

Ok but you agree that the Fed prints money when it wants and loans it to us at interest? :mjpls: Like what are you even arguing about cuz?

Again, I don't know the law in that part of the country. There might be a valid reason why it happened ... your source seemed biased.

It dont matter breh. Thats not the point whether it was against man made imaginary laws instituted. The point was whether a country built off freedom would allow a garden that was being used for food and self preservation to be destroyed by the gov't that is supposed to be ensuring that their adherents get both of those. Thats the point.
Right. Again, I don't know the other side of this argument.

Which can be said for anytime I bring up any case that displays a breaking of rights. The point is that the story exemplifies the lake of care of individual rights. A homeless man cant be given food? :scusthov:
 

Everythingg

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Well then you're an idiot. Have you checked the sources of scientists who claim gravity causes bodies of mass to come together, or that there is water on other planets, or that evolution happens? If not, then I guess you can disregard it as untrue, right? :mjlol:

More insults :mjlol: But Im the a$$hole for using smilies? :camby: Im not the one that said I need proof for everything. Thats some atheist p.o.v.

An individual doesn't have to check every claim to acknowledge that it's most likely true. Again, the scientific process of peer review has provided demonstrable true claims since the beginning of its implementation. I don't have to actually go to Jupiter to know that it's there. The overwhelming scientific consensus have made Jupiter's case, and agrees it's there. Experts in these fields. So it's safe for me to rely on that information, and go study what I want to.

Breh, my point was that the guy made statements. We dont believe statements right? So my questions stand as to why I do not think his claims should just arbitrarily be accepted. Did anyone in here attempt to answer them or address them? Naw. They keep point out man made credentials such as his Harvard degree. Its whatever doe. :ehh: What Im really getting at is that his "facts" are not proveable. As I said, there is no credible way to equate our accuracy of reporting the population and violence in it then anything he could have found from the past.

Not to mention History = HIS Story. Academics? Controlled. Media? Controlled. Food? Controlled. Religion? Controlled. Its clear with the "research" some do towards science, they should be doing towards their surroundings and wondering why people are trying to control these sectors.

Getting proof doesn't mean we have to be the actual scientists to look at the proof. What you theists don't understand is if I WANTED to study this stuff, I could do so. I just happened to choose a different career path, and spend most my time with that. I COULD spend the time to examine the evidence for myself. That is the major difference between science and religion. What you have is just dogma: X says Y is true, therefore it's true. Science is A says B is likely to be true. C, D and E examines it, critiques it, and agrees it's true. Therefore the general population, F - Z, can generally accept it as true as well. That's how the scientific method works.

Yea you could but you dont. So you take their word at faith. Just as believers in God Almighty take their God's word as faith. The thing is, yall try to act as if theirs a difference. So lets say that someone with a whole lot of money pays for a group of scientists to give out wrong information. Then what? We have people believing incorrect information. So just because a group of people says something doesnt mean we believe it.

What you're doing is just as believers do. Except (some) believers place their faith in the Creator of All things, while other people place their faith in men. :scusthov: I'll take my chances with who I believe in.
 
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