Who Stops a ‘Bad Guy With a Gun’?

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I just dont think theres much of a maturity difference between and 18 and 21 year old on average. In some instances mental conditions may have worsened in that time span and have not been treated.

Most experts say a brain is fully developed at age 25. Make the age limit 25 then

Even if 21 isn't old enough to fully develop, it's an extra three years that most people on that fukk shyt will likely have picked up a record or a red flag by then. The # of mass shootings and gun crimes in general that are committed by men 17-21 is pretty wild compared to their small portion of the population.
 

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No a "good guy with a gun" probably isn't going to stop a Columbine or a UVale type mass shooting because they are only carrying CC type shyt. so that's unfair. If some a$$hole runs up in a school with an AR 15 then no, chances are somebody carrying a 380 wont stop them, they are severely outgunned. BUT if we were to look at situations were the playing field is equal I firmly believe a "Good guy" with a gun can reverse the situation. Such that has been seen in Family Dollars or Convenience Stores, Gas Stations etc...
we don't need necessarily need to look at *public* mass shooting incidents to find examples of firepower parity, you're spot on when you said why that would be a rare occurrence. one place we can look at instead are defenses of homesteads, where generally a homeowner armed with any sort of long gun wins big, even against multiple armed attackers.
I would like to see universal background checks for all gun transfers, so plausible deniability can't be used to block virtually all black market gun trafficking and straw purchase cases.

I would like to see guns registered across the board and a requirement that stolen guns be reported, so that there's no backdoor to the illegal gun transfers and "oh it was stolen" can't be used after-the-fact to hide illegal gun transfers to criminals anymore.

Those requirements would also allow LE to see exactly who was funneling the guns to violent criminals, cause we all know full well there's a limited # of sources supply a hell of a lot of those guns.
as a threshold matter, in a free society the government has no business knowing what people own, or for what purpose, no matter the cost. i've seen the end game of this in my homeland and many other countries, after mandatory registration the government took their little list of owners, confiscated everything, and set off one of the worst genocides in history a few months later. thankfully my family never registered their shyt, killed the death squad that came for them and escaped by minutes. meanwhile the families who obeyed had the children taken as slaves and the adults sent to a mass grave, a fate a non-trivial amount of our fellow americans would wish upon us.
I would like to see guns licenses for first-time gun buyers to verify that they are legally valid to own a gun, and a 30-day waiting period on those gun licenses to give time for full background checks including at least two references who know the person well (which allows red flags because a lot of people close to these mass shooter or suicidal perps are going to throw up huge red flags if they know the guy is buying guns all of the sudden). And if you commit a violent felony, have a domestic violence issue, or have a mental health issue that would cause your ability to own a gun end, you have surrender that license. That also allows for a 30-day cool-down time so crimes of passion and sort-term suicidal persons are less likely to get that gun into their hand at the wrong time.
all licensing schemes are jim crow laws which are enforced with a racial bias to this day, until last week it was pretty much impossible for a black man to get a carry license in nyc or santa clara county, whereas a white man would have no difficulty. denying ex-cons the right to bear arms is another jim crow artifact which is just as odious as denying them the right to vote or serve on juries. if they're truly such a threat to society then they should remain incarcerated, not in some weird three-fifths of a freeman limbo. licensing schemes also keep firearms out of the hands of the poor, you recognize that an insurance or home ownership requirement would be a form of poll tax but not an expensive license, how?

waiting periods debar the ability to defend oneself from people who need it the most, such as the elderly, disabled, or women who need to defend themselves from imminent threats/stalkers. any right delayed is a right denied and it leads to deaths in slave states like this one all the time, deaths which the government are responsible for:
And I would like to see some sort of serious restrictions on melee weapons
this has to the goofiest thing i've ever heard of. firearms are 1000+ y/o technology and their proliferation's been unstoppable, you can give a kid $20 and a ride to the hardware store and he can make you an honest to god shotgun. so how do you think the proliferation of copper age technology can be stopped when every toolbox in america has a hammer and every patch of earth a sharp stick? i've honestly never heard this come from someone who isn't a british politician or woefully misinformed (which i don't think you are).

oh, and every time someone quotes me with a prohibitionist opinion i'm going to make a gun and give it to a noguns friend. last night the coli's resident prohibitionist zealot triggered me enough to build an M4gery for a noguns brehette, my generosity and wallet are both infinite. :umad:
 
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we don't need necessarily need to look at *public* mass shooting incidents to find examples of firepower parity, you're spot on when you said why that would be a rare occurrence. one place we can look at instead are defenses of homesteads, where generally a homeowner armed with any sort of long gun wins big, even against multiple armed attackers.

There is zero evidence that guns in the household increase the protection of the homeowner on average. None. In fact the opposite - homes with a gun in them are far more likely to experience a suicide in the home, far more likely to experience a domestic murder in the home, and show absolutely zero reduction of stranger murder in the home.









as a threshold matter, in a free society the government has no business knowing what people own, or for what purpose, no matter the cost. i've seen the end game of this in my homeland and many other countries, after mandatory registration the government took their little list of owners, confiscated everything,

:mjlol:

Don't make up fake "rights" out of nowhere that have no basis in law or mainstream philosophical discourse. I already have to register my home, my land, my business, my car, many of my financial assets, there is nothing special about guns except to gun nuts.

There is zero chance of the US government going through and confiscating everyone's guns, they have neither the manpower nor the obedience among their manpower. And if they wanted to do any small scale confiscation of a subset they would go ahead and do that whether you had registered your guns or not. A government that has the capacity to take away your guns has the capacity to take you out regardless of whether they take your guns first or not. They're going to come in expecting a fight either way.





and set off one of the worst genocides in history a few months later. thankfully my family never registered their shyt, killed the death squad that came for them and escaped by minutes. meanwhile the families who obeyed had the children taken as slaves and the adults sent to a mass grave, a fate a non-trivial amount of our fellow americans would wish upon us.

You make up this crazy story and don't even cite the country? You've been here 10 years and haven't once mentioned any story about genocide or death squads even though you talk about guns constantly. I thought you were a hardcore libertarian second-generation immigrant from India or some shyt. Without citation I'm not going to take this serious.




all licensing schemes are jim crow laws which are enforced with a racial bias to this day, until last week it was pretty much impossible for a black man to get a carry license in nyc or santa clara county, whereas a white man would have no difficulty.

Claiming a white man has no difficulty getting a carry license in NYC is straight false. :mjlol:




denying ex-cons the right to bear arms is another jim crow artifact which is just as odious as denying them the right to vote or serve on juries. if they're truly such a threat to society then they should remain incarcerated, not in some weird three-fifths of a freeman limbo.

You're just delving into full gun-nut territory. "No restrictions, give all the felons guns, it's our right!!!!" There's zero reason to take you seriously on this.




waiting periods debar the ability to defend oneself from people who need it the most, such as the elderly, disabled, or women who need to defend themselves from imminent threats/stalkers. any right delayed is a right denied

Just more bullshyt, the likelihood of someone being killed by a suddenly purchased gun FAR outweighs the likelihood of an inexperienced person who doesn't even own a gun suddenly managing to both buy one and successfully defend themselves immediately afterwards.




oh, and every time someone quotes me with a prohibitionist opinion i'm going to make a gun and give it to a noguns friend. last night the coli's resident prohibitionist zealot triggered me enough to build an M4gery for a noguns brehette, my generosity and wallet are both infinite. :umad:

I mean you're a fukking gun nut, you exemplify them completely, so I wouldn't be surprised. "fukk society, fukk lives, I want my guns!"

It's not like you've hidden this, so don't pretend to be pro-life or pro-safety on this shyt now.




it's not about need, in a free society people should be able to own whatever they want without government interference. and the number of fatalities that result from proliferation doesn't matter either, this is the price of living in a free society and no cost would be too high.


"The number of fatalities that result from proliferations doesn't matter....no cost would be too high."

You're a fukking gun nut. So stop pretending there is anything logical or safety-based in your views. All the evidence is against you.
 

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There is zero evidence that guns in the household increase the protection of the homeowner on average. None. In fact the opposite - homes with a gun in them are far more likely to experience a suicide in the home, far more likely to experience a domestic murder in the home, and show absolutely zero reduction of stranger murder in the home.
again, what part of "no matter the cost" don't you understand? no amount of negative outcomes matters when it comes to preserving civil rights, and the american people have done the calculus and come to the same decision as me. not only that, they apply the same logic to instruments like which cause many orders of magnitude more casualties, such as vehicles. a vehicle ban would result in millions less casualties a year but there's no appetite for one outside of fringe circles because americans know that this is the price to preserve the freedom of movement, which pales in importance to the freedom to defend oneself. public polling shows that every year the number of people holding your views decrease, you are on the wrong side of both morality and history.
Just more bullshyt, the likelihood of someone being killed by a suddenly purchased gun FAR outweighs the likelihood of an inexperienced person who doesn't even own a gun suddenly managing to both buy one and successfully defend themselves immediately afterwards.
i link an example of a woman being killed because of waiting periods and you say it's bullshyt? :dahell: you've never known a woman who's been stalked before? i have conversations like this way too often, your kind would keep women like my friend terrorized, vulnerable or worse... for what? so you're not offended by seeing a gun in public?
ximg.php

There is zero chance of the US government going through and confiscating everyone's guns, they have neither the manpower nor the obedience among their manpower. And if they wanted to do any small scale confiscation of a subset they would go ahead and do that whether you had registered your guns or not. A government that has the capacity to take away your guns has the capacity to take you out regardless of whether they take your guns first or not. They're going to come in expecting a fight either way.
new york just enacted confiscatory policies for the second time in ten years, and they've been continuously doing door-to-door confiscations since the revocations of grandfather clauses in 2013, keep dishonestly pretending it doesn't happen tho.
Claiming a white man has no difficulty getting a carry license in NYC is straight false. :mjlol:
the ccw list gets leaked to the new york tabloids every few years, why don't you go look it up and count how many black names are on there? it's only cops, rich whites, and the politically well connected, but you knew that already and are lying again.
You're just delving into full gun-nut territory. "No restrictions, give all the felons guns, it's our right!!!!" There's zero reason to take you seriously on this.
what you call "full gun-nut territory" is the prevailing view of public defenders and civil rights organizations which see the damage to society that the racist laws you champion cause. circuit court judges have started coming around to this view too, support among both law scholars and the judiciary for restoring the right to bear arms to felons increases every year.
"For our clients, New York’s licensing regime renders the Second Amendment a legal fiction. Worse, virtually all our clients [...] are Black or Hispanic. And that is no accident. New York enacted its firearm licensing requirements to criminalize gun ownership by racial and ethnic minorities. That remains the effect of its enforcement by police and prosecutors today."
You make up this crazy story and don't even cite the country? You've been here 10 years and haven't once mentioned any story about genocide or death squads even though you talk about guns constantly. I thought you were a hardcore libertarian second-generation immigrant from India or some shyt. Without citation I'm not going to take this serious.
so cause i don't like talking about my ancestry or generational trauma it didn't happen and never happened to anyone. :rolleyes: you're right, "breh," there's never been a genocide in africa, or asia, or europe, and there's none going on right now. only white american hands could type some shyt like this.

and i'm honest about being a zealot, why aren't you? you're actually MORE pro-gun than me, you just want them concentrated solely in the hands of our soon-to-be white nationalist government and rich white elites. you love racist/sexist/ableist/classist/ageist diktats, people like you were kapos during the holocaust and will be kapos if white supremacists ever seize power in america.
 

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again, what part of "no matter the cost" don't you understand?

I understand you perfectly well. So don't come in here with bullshyt claims to be concerned about lives and posting anecdotes while refusing to engage the actual stats. You're a gun nut who wants absolutely no restrictions on guns for felons or anyone else, no matter what the cost. Full stop.



such as vehicles. a vehicle ban would result in millions less casualties a year but there's no appetite for one outside of fringe circles because americans know that this is the price to preserve the freedom of movement, which pales in importance to the freedom to defend oneself.

:mjlol: :mjlol: :mjlol: :mjlol:

Breh just claimed that freedom of movement "pales in importance" to ability to purchase guns without restrictions, as if banning cars wouldn't immediately cause the economy to collapse cause folk couldn't get to their jobs, their schools, their family, the hospital, etc.



public polling shows that every year the number of people holding your views decrease, you are on the wrong side of both morality and history.

What disingenuous bullshyt, your "no restrictions on guns at all" stance is held by a TINY fringe in the USA and even smaller numbers elsewhere, but you're gonna try to cite public opinion now?



i link an example of a woman being killed because of these laws and you say it's bullshyt?

You made up one anecdote and your claim that she was "killed because of these laws" was 100% speculative. You don't have the slightest proof that she would have successfully defended herself with a gun if she would have gotten one



:dahell: you've never known a woman who's been stalked before?

YES, a friend of mine from school was murdered by her ex-boyfriend stalker. He showed up at a party and shot her threw the open front door past 4 people. HIS ability to get a gun easily is what got her killed and her having a gun couldn't have done jack shyt cause he fired without warning and no one could stop him in time, certainly not her. They tackled him immediately afterwards and he's in jail but she's still dead.



have conversations like this way too often, your kind would keep women like my friend terrorized and vulnerable... for what?

The # of women armed is always going to be VASTLY outweighed by the # of men armed and the # of women shot and killed by armed men is always going to be FAR higher than the # of women protected.

Let's take a quote from one of the studies I linked that you clearly didn't read or even give a shyt about:
Most strikingly, they found in a recent study that people who lived with a handgun owner were seven times as likely to be shot and killed by a spouse or intimate partner. Eighty-four percent of those victims were women.



the ccw list gets leaked to the new york tabloids every few years, why don't you go look it up and count how many black names are on there? it's only cops, rich whites, and the politically well connected, but you knew that already and are lying again.

Your previous claim was that white people had no problem getting a gun in New York. Now you're moving the goalposts to "rich whites and the politically well connected". And I'm the one who was lying? You already knew you were on some bullshyt - it's hard as hell to get a gun in NYC unless you have clear cause or connections, no matter what your race.



so cause i don't like talking about my ancestry or generational trauma it didn't happen and never happened to anyone. :rolleyes:

You "don't like talking about it" yet dropped it in a moment with a stranger to try to prove something on the internet? Never once in a decade did you share ANY of those details about your background on here, but suddenly you have an intricate series of events that perfectly align to prove your case....except you can't even tell us what country or decade your unlikely Hollywood story happened in?

I can't debate with ghosts. You're a gun nut and gun nuts famously distort events to make guns look like the hero whenever they can. Either cite what you're talking about or it will be ignored



you're right, "breh," there's never been a genocide in africa, or asia, or europe, and there's none going on right now. only white american hands could type some shyt like this.

I said the exact opposite, liar, when there are genocides the genocide will happen REGARDLESS of whether there are guns or not. Genocides happen in countries completely loaded with guns all the time, claiming that gun confiscation is necessary to precede genocide is proven bullshyt.



and i'm honest about being a zealot, why aren't you? you're actually MORE pro-gun than me, you just want them concentrated solely in the hands of our soon-to-be white nationalist government and rich white elites. you love racist/sexist/ableist/classist/ageist diktats, people like you were kapos during the holocaust and will be kapos if white supremacists ever seize power in america.

Literally EVERYTHING you say about me there is a lie. You come off as a nut just making shyt up, if you knew jack shyt about me you wouldn't make up these bullshyt narratives.


Notice that I linked numerous studies and confirmed history in my previous post and you could counter NONE of it. Just dropped a couple anecdotes without proof and threw in your fringe ideology and figured that was a wrap.
 

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So y’all would rather wait for the police to show up, before someone has the chance to take out a mass murderer?
 

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So y’all would rather wait for the police to show up, before someone has the chance to take out a mass murderer?


How did you get that from the OP?

People without guns stopped the active shooter far more times than people with guns did, so obviously there are plenty of people who aren't just "waiting".

And, ironically, most folk who are strapped DO end up waiting for the police anyway, figuring either they are more concerned with preserving their own life, are afraid of collateral damage, don't have the firepower to take out the bad guy themselves, or are afraid of being mistaken by police for the shooter. Even pro-gun folk in this thread have said they don't feel the responsibility is on them to stop a mass shooting. fukk, even lone cops have shown over and over again that a lot of them would rather "wait for the rest of the cops" than go up alone.
 

NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong

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Even if 21 isn't old enough to fully develop, it's an extra three years that most people on that fukk shyt will likely have picked up a record or a red flag by then. The # of mass shootings and gun crimes in general that are committed by men 17-21 is pretty wild compared to their small portion of the population.

21 is better than 17 or 18 but its still somewhat arbitrary is my point
 
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