Who is more to blame for America's declining status in education?

[Mr. Somebody]

Parents, teachers and the state are all to blame

Parents dont care

The teachers dont care

The state doesnt care

They figure heck, if they fail in school they can fill up a prison so it all works out well in the end for the demons.

Or heck i have a life and work im to stressed to deal with this homework stuff

Or heck, the parents dont care and the kid is bad, why should i care. Have fun in prison, see how funny you are then, kid



If they really cared the obvious solution would be to put forth stronger tutoring initiatives to make sure that no child is truely left behind and meets the standards of educational excellence. That wont happen though because from the top down, no one truly cares

This is why the people that are doing well and creating widening gaps between rich and poor are the people who have the resources to make sure their children get the best educational services or put their feet on their childs neck every evening to ensure he has a proper education. These trained people then go on to make money with basic education that everyone should have and essentially become overlords.

A fish stinks at the head.

Its so demonic, friend.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Culture and parents are interchangeable, imo.

I suppose, but wouldn't you say that policies play a role in influencing certain aspects of culture? Plus spending in certain schools is compared to others. Education isn't about learning here, its about moving up the ladder economically. Doesn't mean you'll be educated in a well rounded way. Having gone to a majority white school, I saw how it was more about gettin ahead and less about being knowledgeable.

 

[Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson]

blas.

 

[Shogun]

I suppose, but wouldn't you say that policies play a role in influencing certain aspects of culture? Plus spending in certain schools is compared to others. Education isn't about learning here, its about moving up the ladder economically. Doesn't mean you'll be educated in a well rounded way. Having gone to a majority white school, I saw how it was more about gettin ahead and less about being knowledgeable.

good point, breh.

 

[DEAD7]

blas.

 

[acri1]

No single party to blame, but every party mentioned shares some blame.

That said I think a lot of it just comes down to culture though (and I mean American culture in general), regardless of parents/teachers/unions/funding/politicians/etc. Kids that are raised in a culture where education/grades aren't considered important are only going to do so well.

And I'm saying this from personal experience, I got pretty meh grades in high school (Bs/Cs) and I'm pretty sure I could've graduated with 3.5+ GPA had I actually cared about doing so. Had nothing to do with lack of funding for my school (even though it was an urban school in Detroit), nothing to do with problems at home, nothing to do with my teachers, etc. Basically it was just me being lazy and not feeling that school was that important outside of just making sure I don't pass. I feel like it'd be lame to blame my teachers/parents/congressmen/etc for the fact that I really didn't give a shyt about my grades and was too lazy to do any work outside of showing up on test days.

So the short answer is that it has more to do with the anti-intellectualism inherent in American culture than with any one party.

 

[Type Username Here]

All of the above

 

[DEAD7]

Education is easily the most socialized institution in America, which puts the responsibility(overwhelmingly) on govt. IMO...
...but I think everything listed plays a part.

 

[Serious]

Honestly, I'm the last to defend other teachers because the amount of nonsense I witness from colleagues on a daily basis in mind numbing. Poor teachers, in my biased opinion, are more a product of a failed system than anything, though. Young teachers are grabbing on to the newest reforms and running with them, but older teachers have been through 3..4..5.. different reforms like this that have all been completely forgotten with the next administration. Can't blame them for looking at this new shyt with skepticism.

Union also goes too far in protecting bad teachers. There's shytty people in every profession. In most, they get fired....not in education.

Ultimately, though, I can't help but place the majority of the blame on parents. There seems to be a shift in culture where parents feel they have zero responsibility for their child's education. Teachers can only do so much. If there's no support at home then its very rare that the average student will still succeed.

I did well in high school, not because I cared about being educated but because I was terrified of my father. Its a strong motivator.

So tell us about those parent teacher conferences

 

[acri1]

Education is easily the most socialized institution in America, which puts the responsibility(overwhelmingly) on govt. IMO...
...but I think everything listed plays a part.

Man, it must be comforting to have such a simplistic worldview. There's no real need for nuance or consideration if your position on literally every single issue ever is to mindlessly blame the government.

You might have something though...I might just try debating like that just to see how it is.

Like, anytime somebody asks me my position on a political topic I'm just gonna say "It's because of the government!" and accuse people of being socialists. I can argue that position without even having to think about the actual issue.

 

[DEAD7]

Man, it must be comforting to have such a simplistic worldview. There's no real need for nuance or consideration if your position on literally every single issue ever is to mindlessly blame the government.

When the institution is ran by the govt. its easy...

I cant imagine handing something over to some one to run and then not holding them responsible when it slowly goes to shyt under their care....

edit: and I didnt say govt. was solely responsible at any point.

 

[Type Username Here]

Education is easily the most socialized institution in America, which puts the responsibility(overwhelmingly) on govt. IMO...
...but I think everything listed plays a part.

So why is the education(K-12) better overall in countries that are much more socialist in nature?

1Korea556547522
2Finland547548563
3Canada527527534
4New Zealand521522530
5Ireland517501508
6Australia513520527
7Poland1508495498
8Sweden507502503
9Netherlands507531525
10Belgium501520510
11Switzerland499530512
12Japan498523531
13United Kingdom495495515
14Germany495504516
15Denmark494513496
16OECD average492498500
17Austria490505511
18France488496495
19Iceland484506491
20Norway484490487

Here is also the education index:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

So it seems like your argument has a lot of holes in it.

 

[Shogun]

So tell us about those parent teacher conferences

What's sad, but also expected and supportive of what I'm saying, the only parents that actually show up are the parents of a "good" kids. Inevitably they turn into "little Johnny is doing great, he could improve here and here , but he's a great kid...blah blah blah". The parents of kids who are struggling are nowhere to be found, which is no coincidence imo.

 

[DEAD7]

So why is the education(K-12) better overall in countries that are much more socialist in nature?



Here is also the education index:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

So it seems like your argument has a lot of holes in it.

The question was who is more responsible for it.

If it was amazing govt. would deserve the credit, if it sux they deserve the blame.

I didnt even bash socialism

 

[Shogun]

So why is the education(K-12) better overall in countries that are much more socialist in nature?



Here is also the education index:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

So it seems like your argument has a lot of holes in it.

Maybe because America's government is far too fukked up to effectively implement social policies?