Who is african American greatest leader ever

[IllmaticDelta]

the unia was started in 1914, can you give me a black organization that was similar?

read my above post

 

[SubZero]

Garvey just took ideas pioneered from Aframs that came before him and tried to fuse them together. A few of the Aframs that directly influenced Garvey are

Alexander Crummell



Booker T. Washington







Henry McNeal Turner





Martin Delany





Lewis Woodson.
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some more....

www.workers.org/2007/us/detroit1967-0816/




Pan-African News Wire: The Expanding United States Economic and Military Role in Africa

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You can use the same argument to disqualify Malcolm X, since he was under the tutelage of Elijah Muhammad when he did almost everything he did. And discredit Elijah Muhammad based on the reason cuz NOI was started by Fard Muhammad. Then you can also discredit Fard Muhammad cuz the idea behind NOI came from Noble Drew Ali.

That's how ridiculous your argument against Marcus Garvey sound. All the people you listed never created the blueprint and had the following that Garvey had.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Without Garvey, there wouldn't be Nation of Islam.

actually there would have been, this below predated NOI, Morrish science and paved the way for Rastafarianism.

When you combine religion with Black Nationalism/Afrocentrism you get stuff like..... (same way Rastafarianism was born in Jamaica)

William Saunders Crowdy (August 11, 1847 – August 4, 1908) was an American soldier, preacher, entrepreneur, theologian, and pastor. As one of the earliest Hebrew Israelites in the United States, he established the Church of God and Saints of Christ in 1896.

Black Judaism' has roots in Kansas

But did you know that "Black Judaism," as it's come to be known, has its roots right here in Kansas over a century ago? Or that it influenced such later religious developments as Rastafarianism and even the Nation of Islam?

It's true, according to numerous sources.

They point to the arrival of former slave and railroad cook William Saunders Crowdy in Lawrence, Kan., in 1896 and his establishment there of the Church of God and Saints of Christ as perhaps the watershed event in the movement that identifies African-Americans with the biblical Hebrews.

Within a couple of years, Crowdy had established satellite tabernacles all across Kansas, from Atchison to Topeka to Winfield. The COGASOC eventually withered away here, but it still exists. It has its headquarters in Virginia and is headed by one of Crowdy's descendants.

Saints of Christ?
Today, tens of thousands of people consider themselves Black Jews, even if the mainstream Jewish community doesn't completely accept them. At this point, the contentious issues are more theological than racial, and Rabbi Funnye has made it his business to bridge those gaps, according to an article in the July-August edition of Moment magazine titled "Post-Racial Rabbis."

Writer Jeremy Gillick says that Funnye is succeeding, to the extent that he has "been almost universally accepted as a rabbi by liberal Jewish movements, as well as by many more traditional groups."

That's apparently so in large part because the segment of Black Judaism to which Rabbi Funnye adheres has moved much closer to mainstream Judaism than others, including the COGASOC

It's doubtful that the rabbis of his day would have recognized William Crowdy as a peer, much less the prophet that COGASOC considers him today. There is that "Christ" business, although the COGASOC Web site has an explanation for that in its FAQ section:

"We interpret this name to mean that we are a religious organization which is directed by God, 'Church of God,' and we are followers of the anointed of God, 'Saints of Christ.' Our congregation should not be mistaken for Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus, because we do not believe that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. ... We believe in the religion of Jesus and not the religion about Jesus."

Nonetheless, it continues, "We believe that Jesus was a prophet, and we accept all biblical prophets of God who taught the laws of God."

It is this sort of duality that led writers including James E. Landing in "Black Judaism," (Carolina Academic Press, 2002) and Yvonne Chireau in "Black Zion: African American Religious Encounters with Judaism," (Oxford University Press, 2000) to call COGASOC an admixture of Jewish and Christian theological concepts.

Still, congregants at Temple Beth El, the COGASAC headquarters in Belleville, Va., will celebrate Rosh Hashanah tonight, just as at every other synagogue and temple in the world. In fact, they observe most of the major holidays with the exception of Chanukah. The Festival of Lights, of course, is post-biblical, and COGSAC consider themselves biblical Jews.

And that gets to the heart of the split between the Black Jewish community and the normative one: Black Jews have their own interpretations of the Bible, and don't necessarily follow the rabbinic tradition.

Crowdy in Kansas
And while in the 19th century many black Christians found the biblical Israelites an inspiring allegory for their own enslavement, it was Crowdy who first popularized the literal identification of black Americans with Israelites, or Jews.

Born a slave in 1847 in Maryland, Crowdy served in the Union Army during the Civil War. After the war, he moved to Guthrie, Okla., and later to Kansas City, Mo., where he established a family and worked on the Santa Fe Railroad as a cook.

According to a history of COGASOC written by his daughter, it was William Crowdy's powerful singing voice that first attracted people to him. He was said to have arrived in Lawrence in 1896 and begun to sing and preach on the street. That led to a public meeting at the Douglas County Courthouse, attended by both whites and blacks, and to the incorporation of the COGASOC.

According to records reproduced by former University of Kansas student Elly Wynia in her book, "The Church of God and Saints of Christ: The Rise of Black Jews." (Routledge, 1994) COGASOC's "First General Annual Assembly Meeting" occurred in Lawrence on Oct. 10, 1899

During Crowdy's time in Lawrence, COGASOC records showed a "tabernacle" at 1239 New Jersey St., where a private home stands today. Henry Street, the location of the other Lawrence tabernacle, no longer exists today. Likewise, the address given for the Topeka tabernacle, 910 S.E. 12th St., is today merely the side yard of a rundown house in a historically black neighborhood.

If William Crowdy, the father of "Black Judaism," is still regarded a prophet in some circles, he's almost unknown in his old Kansas stomping grounds.


What are Black Jews?
Yvonne Chireau writes in "Black Zion" that "One of the first communities to which the designation 'black Jews' was applied was the Church of God and Saints of Christ (also known as the Temple Beth-el congregations), established in Lawrence, Kansas, in 1896 by William Saunders Crowdy. Crowdy, a former Baptist preacher, called his congregations 'tabernacles' and embedded select Jewish beliefs and practices within a format that was similar to that of a Christian church. The group's appropriation of Judaism constituted what for some writers have characterized as a Hebraic-Christian or Judeo-Christian formation, in which aspects of Old Testament tradition were integrated with Christian elements.... The Church of God adopted Jewish customs that may have been based on a literal interpretation of Old Testament rites.

"The Church of God, for instance, maintained the office of the rabbinate, celebrated Passover, and observed a Saturday Sabbath while incorporating new Testament principles, emphasizing the works of Jesus Christ and his teachings, and practicing such rituals as Baptism. This pattern of selecting components of Judaism and preserving theological and doctrinal perspectives from Christianity was typical of a number of groups in the early establishment of black Jewish communities in the United States."

'Black Judaism' has roots in Kansas

 

[IllmaticDelta]

You can use the same argument to disqualify Malcolm X, since he was under the tutelage of Elijah Muhammad when he did almost everything he did.

I agree

And discredit Elijah Muhammad based on the reason cuz NOI was started by Fard Muhammad. Then you can also discredit Fard Muhammad cuz the idea behind NOI came from Noble Drew Ali.

I do lol

That's how ridiculous your argument against Marcus Garvey sound. All the people you listed never created the blueprint and had the following that Garvey had.

wrong.....they pioneered the blueprint that Garvey followed. There is a reason Garvey looked to AfroAmerica for inspiration

 

[SubZero]

@IllmaticDelta

Where you got it wrong is that, Rastafarianism has nothing to do with "Black Judaism". It started with Haile Selassie and the doctrine is centred around the Ethiopian Church/culture.

 

[SubZero]

I agree

I do lol

wrong.....they pioneered the blueprint that Garvey followed. There is a reason Garvey looked to AfroAmerica for inspiration

But how does that negate his greatness since everyone on the list expanded on what others pioneered?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@IllmaticDelta

How the HELL did we all forget about the Moorish Temple!! Good one ID!

Garvey is seriously being overrated on here.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

You can use the same argument to disqualify Malcolm X, since he was under the tutelage of Elijah Muhammad when he did almost everything he did. And discredit Elijah Muhammad based on the reason cuz NOI was started by Fard Muhammad. Then you can also discredit Fard Muhammad cuz the idea behind NOI came from Noble Drew Ali.

That's how ridiculous your argument against Marcus Garvey sound. All the people you listed never created the blueprint and had the following that Garvey had.

I do not believe an attempt to discredit Garvey was ever made

 

[CriticalThought]

Always been partial to Martin Delany myself.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta

Where you got it wrong is that, Rastafarianism has nothing to do with "Black Judaism". It started with Haile Selassie and the doctrine is centred around the Ethiopian Church/culture.

rastafarianism followed the blueprint of mixing black nationalism/afrocentricity with judeo-christian beliefs and...

No...Marcus GARVEY did not deify or prophesy about Selassie's coming.

Liberty Hall was a location Marcus Garvey's UNIA own and operated where preachers, poets, artist and essayists etc where welcome and given a soap box to speak on various issue relevant to the black communities.
One preacher and author by the name of James Morris Webb actually made the prophecy about a "Negro Universal King Coming to Rule the World" at or in one of UNIA Liberty Halls. Ten yrs later Ras now Negus Tafari was Crowned King of Ethiopia.

http://paramountshome.org/articles/Spotlight/rev webb2.pdf

Interesting character

 

[SubZero]

I do not believe an attempt to discredit Garvey was ever made

But you have been doing the most on this thread - from saying he shouldn't be on the list cuz he isn't AA when all he achieved was done for AAs, to calling everyone who says Garvey non-AAs.

Do you say the same thing about Kool Herc and all the people of Caribbean descent who helped create hip-hop? And all those Caribbeans who have always been part of the AA struggle? Heck, Malcolm X's mom was Caribbean.

Not everyone is going to agree with you about MLK (even MLK realized his mistakes before he died). Respect other people's opinions.

 

[BreezyH]

Tariq

 

[SubZero]

@IllmaticDelta

How the HELL did we all forget about the Moorish Temple!! Good one ID!

Garvey is seriously being overrated on here.

Rastafarianism started in the 30s. Garvey was already a global icon in the 20s. Do the math.

And the rise of the Moorish Temple didn't start until the late 20s, to the 30s.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

But you have been doing the most on this thread - from saying he shouldn't be on the list cuz he isn't AA when all he achieved was done for AAs, to calling everyone who says Garvey non-AAs.

Do you say the same thing about Kool Herc and all the people of Caribbean descent who helped create hip-hop? And all those Caribbeans who have always been part of the AA struggle? Heck, Malcolm X's mom was Caribbean.

Not everyone is going to agree with you about MLK (even MLK realized his mistakes before he died). Respect other people's opinions.

I find the whole thing insulting really

In a pan-African sense garvey was great. But for AA's specifically I would say king

try telling a room full of Chinese men and women to forgo their great Chinese leaders in favor for a Japanese dude who fought for ASIAN liberation

 

[SubZero]

I find the whole thing insulting really

In a pan-African sense garvey was great. But for AA's specifically I would say king

try telling a room full of Chinese men and women to forgo their great Chinese leaders in favor for a Japanese dude who fought for ASIAN liberation

But MLK's greatness is attached to voting rights and integration. But both came at the expense of more disenfranchisement, destruction of black family structure, elevation of other groups like Jews and white women, a dearth of black economics and mass incarceration etc. And he never left any structure or ideological base behind for others to build on - apart from the elements who assimilated into NAACP (Dubois et al actually started NAACP) and clowns like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. And NAACP is more of a Jewish organization than a black one.

However, Garvey preached and executed black economics/empowerment - without trading anything in return.

Not taking anything away from MLK. He did what he thought was right at the time. And I respect those who see him as the greatest leader. But in hindsight, some might just think it's not worth it. When you trade everything away just to sit around cacs and be able to vote in a rigged system, where leaders are selected - not elected - then you have to start questioning the rationale behind such a decision.