3 picks AND IQ?
(I read that we couldn’t trade Rose cause we take his option it puts us in luxury territory and harder to make this trade)
"Who are the Knicks? Brunson, Brunson and some other Knickas" " - Official '23 NYK Offseason Thread
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3 picks AND IQ?
(I read that we couldn’t trade Rose cause we take his option it puts us in luxury territory and harder to make this trade)
They said the same about Wiggins…
Randle would really help put NO into contention too.
Obi Toppin lit up Thibs after game 4 loss to the Miami heat. Obi was furious about being benched during the game and lit Thibs up in front of the team. Rick Brunson separated Thibs, Julius, Hart and Fournier had to seperate Obi.
I’ll post the Athletic article
I’ll post the Athletic article
Frustrations arose with the New York Knicks’ season on the brink.
Head coach Tom Thibodeau had benched Obi Toppin for the third and fourth quarters of a Game 4 loss in the team’s second-round NBA playoff matchup against the Miami Heat. The result handed New York a 3-1 series deficit, one loss short of elimination. Meanwhile, the decision not to play Toppin led to an out-of-character moment for the usually mild-mannered power forward.
According to league sources who were present, once the final buzzer sounded Toppin aired his grievances to Thibodeau. The 24-year-old wants to play, and he wants to win. That evening, neither happened. An intense verbal altercation occurred between the player and coach as the group trekked to the Kaseya Center visiting locker room in Miami. It spilled into the postgame meeting once the doors closed.
The Knicks drafted Toppin eighth overall three years ago, but they haven’t treated him like a mid-lottery pick since. The team’s starting power forward, Julius Randle, has leaped into the All-NBA stratosphere over that time, which has left Toppin stuck on the bench more often than the organization figured he would be when it selected him while he was fresh off an NCAA national player of the year award.
On this occasion, as Toppin yelled at Thibodeau in front of teammates so fresh off a loss that they were still in uniform, assistant coach Rick Brunson stepped in to stand up for his boss. Toppin and Brunson got into it for a moment. Randle, Evan Fournier and Josh Hart next pulled Toppin aside to cool him off.
The disagreement did not infect the Knicks’ culture. In fact, on the evening it happened, a league source told The Athletic that he believed it was more likely the fracas would give players a jolt after a spiritless loss.
Toppin and Thibodeau met the next day to patch up things. The evening after that, the Knicks won Game 5. Toppin played his regular rotations and played them well. Life was back to normal, even if the Knicks fell a couple of nights later to end their season.
There’s no fallout, no lingering resentment. Sometimes, competitive people get competitive.
But that moment should have made one concept clear: It’s time for the Knicks to decide where Toppin fits into their future, and if they hadn’t already realized it, they certainly must have when Toppin flat-out told them that night.
Like Immanuel Quickley, Toppin is eligible for a rookie-scale extension this upcoming offseason. Once July rolls around, the 24-year-old can tack up to five more years onto his deal, a new contract that would begin in the 2024-25 season. But like with Quickley, whose pivotal offseason The Athletic outlined last week, whether or not the Knicks choose to pay the former first-round selection has to do with more than just what they think of his game.
The Athletic recently conducted a poll of 15 people who work in front offices across the NBA, asking them what they would deem a “fair” extension for Toppin. Sources were granted anonymity so that they could speak freely. Results varied — but not necessarily because participants thought much differently about Toppin as a player.
Ten of the 15 people polled for this story valued Toppin within shouting distance of the $12.2 million midlevel exception. Those 10 ranged from $10 million to $15 million a year. The largest suggested contract (in terms of both total money and average annual value) came from one person who deemed $60 million over four seasons fair.
Five people suggested salaries between $13 million and $14 million on either three- or four-year deals. Two proposed between $12 million and $13 million a season. Two more said $30 million over three years — a clean $10 million annually.
The go-to comparison from various people in the poll was the extension Brandon Clarke received from the Memphis Grizzlies last autumn, a four-year, $52 million add-on. Like Toppin, Clarke is a spark-plug big who comes off the bench. But when Clarke, who is currently recovering from a torn Achilles is healthy, Memphis doesn’t deploy him the same way the Knicks use Toppin. Clarke closes games. He’s had big playoff moments. He’s an offensive rebounder and switchable defender, even if he isn’t a threat outside the 3-point arc. But just as he was during the second half of that postseason loss to Miami, Toppin is often on the bench for the Knicks’ most-important moments.
Head coach Tom Thibodeau had benched Obi Toppin for the third and fourth quarters of a Game 4 loss in the team’s second-round NBA playoff matchup against the Miami Heat. The result handed New York a 3-1 series deficit, one loss short of elimination. Meanwhile, the decision not to play Toppin led to an out-of-character moment for the usually mild-mannered power forward.
According to league sources who were present, once the final buzzer sounded Toppin aired his grievances to Thibodeau. The 24-year-old wants to play, and he wants to win. That evening, neither happened. An intense verbal altercation occurred between the player and coach as the group trekked to the Kaseya Center visiting locker room in Miami. It spilled into the postgame meeting once the doors closed.
The Knicks drafted Toppin eighth overall three years ago, but they haven’t treated him like a mid-lottery pick since. The team’s starting power forward, Julius Randle, has leaped into the All-NBA stratosphere over that time, which has left Toppin stuck on the bench more often than the organization figured he would be when it selected him while he was fresh off an NCAA national player of the year award.
On this occasion, as Toppin yelled at Thibodeau in front of teammates so fresh off a loss that they were still in uniform, assistant coach Rick Brunson stepped in to stand up for his boss. Toppin and Brunson got into it for a moment. Randle, Evan Fournier and Josh Hart next pulled Toppin aside to cool him off.
The disagreement did not infect the Knicks’ culture. In fact, on the evening it happened, a league source told The Athletic that he believed it was more likely the fracas would give players a jolt after a spiritless loss.
Toppin and Thibodeau met the next day to patch up things. The evening after that, the Knicks won Game 5. Toppin played his regular rotations and played them well. Life was back to normal, even if the Knicks fell a couple of nights later to end their season.
There’s no fallout, no lingering resentment. Sometimes, competitive people get competitive.
But that moment should have made one concept clear: It’s time for the Knicks to decide where Toppin fits into their future, and if they hadn’t already realized it, they certainly must have when Toppin flat-out told them that night.
Like Immanuel Quickley, Toppin is eligible for a rookie-scale extension this upcoming offseason. Once July rolls around, the 24-year-old can tack up to five more years onto his deal, a new contract that would begin in the 2024-25 season. But like with Quickley, whose pivotal offseason The Athletic outlined last week, whether or not the Knicks choose to pay the former first-round selection has to do with more than just what they think of his game.
The Athletic recently conducted a poll of 15 people who work in front offices across the NBA, asking them what they would deem a “fair” extension for Toppin. Sources were granted anonymity so that they could speak freely. Results varied — but not necessarily because participants thought much differently about Toppin as a player.
Ten of the 15 people polled for this story valued Toppin within shouting distance of the $12.2 million midlevel exception. Those 10 ranged from $10 million to $15 million a year. The largest suggested contract (in terms of both total money and average annual value) came from one person who deemed $60 million over four seasons fair.
Five people suggested salaries between $13 million and $14 million on either three- or four-year deals. Two proposed between $12 million and $13 million a season. Two more said $30 million over three years — a clean $10 million annually.
The go-to comparison from various people in the poll was the extension Brandon Clarke received from the Memphis Grizzlies last autumn, a four-year, $52 million add-on. Like Toppin, Clarke is a spark-plug big who comes off the bench. But when Clarke, who is currently recovering from a torn Achilles is healthy, Memphis doesn’t deploy him the same way the Knicks use Toppin. Clarke closes games. He’s had big playoff moments. He’s an offensive rebounder and switchable defender, even if he isn’t a threat outside the 3-point arc. But just as he was during the second half of that postseason loss to Miami, Toppin is often on the bench for the Knicks’ most-important moments.
And that’s what makes this situation so complicated.
Five people in the poll suggested seven-figure salaries for Toppin, but not all of them considered him a player of that caliber. Some participants were conflicted, acknowledging a reality of the business: You can pay your stars a million dollars a minute, but you can’t hand that much to your role players, especially with far more restrictive luxury-tax policies on the way.
“I don’t think an extension makes sense there,” said the executive who advocated for the lowest average annual value in this poll: only $20 million over four years, a figure Toppin surely would not accept.
The divide comes down to roster construction. As long as Randle is around, Toppin won’t play over him, and Thibodeau, whose ethos is rim protection, does not feel comfortable playing the two offensive-minded power forwards together. Instead, the Knicks use a conventional center, either Mitchell Robinson or Isaiah Hartenstein for 48 minutes of most games, which leaves scraps for Toppin, even on the nights he’s running well.
According to league sources in contact with the Knicks front office leading up to this February’s trade deadline, New York held onto Toppin tightly when asked about his availability. This group, on the whole, believes in him. But can they justify a Clarke contract for someone who doesn’t receive Clarke minutes? And can they do it when Toppin’s wouldn’t be the only money they’d add to their books?
If they extend Quickley, that’s another significant contract. Eleven of the 15 people who were asked the same question about Quickley — what would be a fair extension for him? — said salaries between $16 million and $20 million. Josh Hart is a likely free agent this summer, too, and will cost eight figures annually. What happens if the Knicks also add $13 million a year for Toppin, which could bring them near the salary cap in 2024-25? How does the organization go about snagging an extra wing or more 3-point shooting?
And thus, five participants in this poll toss out lowball offers — even if this exercise is not a real negotiation.
Three people polled for the story suggested $21 million over three years, figuring Toppin could opt for the security of a long-term deal, even if it’s below his market, similar to what Nassir Little did when he signed a discounted four-year, $28 million extension with the Portland Trail Blazers last summer. But Little also was a lower draft pick than Toppin and has an injury history, which could have encouraged him to take a more conservative approach.
Even if the Knicks were to extend Toppin, it probably wouldn’t happen in early July. They have other objectives on the agenda. They want to find shooting. They have Quickley in the same contractual situation as Toppin. They are monitoring the market for a star — and it sure seems like big names could be on the move over the next month.
If a top-flight player becomes available, New York wants to pounce, and because of an obscure rule in the collective bargaining agreement, extending Toppin or Quickley would make either more difficult to trade before a new contract begins in 2024-25.
So the Knicks could wait.
New York has until the day before the season starts to extend Toppin, which gives the market time to create new contractual comparisons, beyond just a Clarke contract.
One person polled for the story said to keep an eye on what restricted free agent P.J. Washington gets this summer. Washington, like Toppin, is an energetic big man — though, like with Clarke, there is one significant difference between him and the Knicks forward: Washington has a defined role with his team and plays more. The Grizzlies and Charlotte Hornets also use Clarke and Washington at center. The Knicks have proven they don’t feel comfortable doing the same with Toppin.
But no matter how New York handles his extension eligibility, the organization’s actions will show what it thinks.
If the Knicks pay him big money, they must have a plan to get him more minutes (though middling salaries, like the ones proposed in this story for Toppin, will become more valuable once the new CBA begins next month, as The Athleticdetailed in the final section of this story). If they never engage in extension negotiations at all, that’s a tell, too.
This summer, it’s all on the table for Toppin. He could re-up with the Knicks. He could fail to earn a new contract and enter restricted free agency a year from now. New York could include him in a trade for a big name. It could flip him for a player who may be just as good but could help more, if only because of his role. Maybe the Knicks identify a 3-point marksman who’s in the same clogged-up situation with his current team that Toppin is in with New York and they flip one for the other; a classic change-of-scenery swap.
Either way, the road the Knicks have been kicking this can down is coming to a dead end. They are past the point of merely thinking about how to handle Toppin’s fate. Soon, they will have to act on it.
Five people in the poll suggested seven-figure salaries for Toppin, but not all of them considered him a player of that caliber. Some participants were conflicted, acknowledging a reality of the business: You can pay your stars a million dollars a minute, but you can’t hand that much to your role players, especially with far more restrictive luxury-tax policies on the way.
“I don’t think an extension makes sense there,” said the executive who advocated for the lowest average annual value in this poll: only $20 million over four years, a figure Toppin surely would not accept.
The divide comes down to roster construction. As long as Randle is around, Toppin won’t play over him, and Thibodeau, whose ethos is rim protection, does not feel comfortable playing the two offensive-minded power forwards together. Instead, the Knicks use a conventional center, either Mitchell Robinson or Isaiah Hartenstein for 48 minutes of most games, which leaves scraps for Toppin, even on the nights he’s running well.
According to league sources in contact with the Knicks front office leading up to this February’s trade deadline, New York held onto Toppin tightly when asked about his availability. This group, on the whole, believes in him. But can they justify a Clarke contract for someone who doesn’t receive Clarke minutes? And can they do it when Toppin’s wouldn’t be the only money they’d add to their books?
If they extend Quickley, that’s another significant contract. Eleven of the 15 people who were asked the same question about Quickley — what would be a fair extension for him? — said salaries between $16 million and $20 million. Josh Hart is a likely free agent this summer, too, and will cost eight figures annually. What happens if the Knicks also add $13 million a year for Toppin, which could bring them near the salary cap in 2024-25? How does the organization go about snagging an extra wing or more 3-point shooting?
And thus, five participants in this poll toss out lowball offers — even if this exercise is not a real negotiation.
Three people polled for the story suggested $21 million over three years, figuring Toppin could opt for the security of a long-term deal, even if it’s below his market, similar to what Nassir Little did when he signed a discounted four-year, $28 million extension with the Portland Trail Blazers last summer. But Little also was a lower draft pick than Toppin and has an injury history, which could have encouraged him to take a more conservative approach.
Even if the Knicks were to extend Toppin, it probably wouldn’t happen in early July. They have other objectives on the agenda. They want to find shooting. They have Quickley in the same contractual situation as Toppin. They are monitoring the market for a star — and it sure seems like big names could be on the move over the next month.
If a top-flight player becomes available, New York wants to pounce, and because of an obscure rule in the collective bargaining agreement, extending Toppin or Quickley would make either more difficult to trade before a new contract begins in 2024-25.
So the Knicks could wait.
New York has until the day before the season starts to extend Toppin, which gives the market time to create new contractual comparisons, beyond just a Clarke contract.
One person polled for the story said to keep an eye on what restricted free agent P.J. Washington gets this summer. Washington, like Toppin, is an energetic big man — though, like with Clarke, there is one significant difference between him and the Knicks forward: Washington has a defined role with his team and plays more. The Grizzlies and Charlotte Hornets also use Clarke and Washington at center. The Knicks have proven they don’t feel comfortable doing the same with Toppin.
But no matter how New York handles his extension eligibility, the organization’s actions will show what it thinks.
If the Knicks pay him big money, they must have a plan to get him more minutes (though middling salaries, like the ones proposed in this story for Toppin, will become more valuable once the new CBA begins next month, as The Athleticdetailed in the final section of this story). If they never engage in extension negotiations at all, that’s a tell, too.
This summer, it’s all on the table for Toppin. He could re-up with the Knicks. He could fail to earn a new contract and enter restricted free agency a year from now. New York could include him in a trade for a big name. It could flip him for a player who may be just as good but could help more, if only because of his role. Maybe the Knicks identify a 3-point marksman who’s in the same clogged-up situation with his current team that Toppin is in with New York and they flip one for the other; a classic change-of-scenery swap.
Either way, the road the Knicks have been kicking this can down is coming to a dead end. They are past the point of merely thinking about how to handle Toppin’s fate. Soon, they will have to act on it.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
I heard there was audio, but I haven’t heard it
Watch Obi turn into Shawn Marion when he gets traded.
storyteller
Superstar
3 picks AND IQ?
(I read that we couldn’t trade Rose cause we take his option it puts us in luxury territory and harder to make this trade)
If 2 or all 3 are protected, it's not so bad.
storyteller
Superstar
Yeah...the speed of these leaks makes me think a deal is done. They gotta soften the blow by promoting the drama because Obi's loved by the fanbase (rightfully so).
This is gross and unnecessary if the Knicks leaked it. Whole fanbase wanted Obi gone cause he deserved better. Half of us are trying to trade every young piece we have for a chip.
As he fukking should
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
OD he is gone and this is leaking to make it understandable. Though this has been building for a while. He has to play to earn money. Them keeping him next season is taking away from his chance to earn a better contract.
He also doesn’t fit the style of the team. Everybody except the center has to be able to drive to the hoop consistently and Obi can pass well and is a finisher. It’s not a good fit.
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
The hit piece usually comes before the trade.
Obi sounding like a whole hood ass nikka . Where did this come from??Ain’t going to lie I’m proud of this little nikka
