White gangster movies being appreciated as Shakespearean tragedies unappreciation thread

tru_m.a.c

tru_m.a.c

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This thread is a long time coming. After seeing all of the commercials and seeing the following interview, I finally reached my :wtf: moment with Italian mob movies



Personally, I'm tired of this shyt. We can't even get a damn movie based in Egypt to portray black character. But we have to sit through the glorification of the Italian mob which held back the advancement of black and brown people throughout the US since the Reconstruction era?

Can you imagine a movie about Tookie Williams or King David in which their stories are characterized as "shakespearean tragedies?" Can you imagine a muhfukka in a hollywood interview for Tookie Williams, proudly proclaiming that he was Tookie's character witness or proudly stating that he was "in awe of his mystique?"

Why the fukk are we okay with a movie about a South Boston gangster form the 70s - 90s as if Boston isn't notorious for racial segregation/the mob isn't one of the biggest enforcers of racial segregation north of the mason dixie?
 
NSSVO

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:whoa: Man, it's just movies. We all know Italian mobsters were dirtbags. Worst type of people, but if they want to keep reminding them of their 'roots' so be it. Leave us out of it.
 
NSSVO

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Real said:
Do we? Cuz OP is right. These dudes do get a lot of love:mjpls:
Click to expand...

Love? They are fukking criminals guys. Just because Johnny Deep plays him doesn't change that. Tookie Williams made the fukking Crips, look how that worked out for us. I don't want a reminder of our own undoing. shyt is worst than anything America has done.
 
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tru_m.a.c said:
This thread is a long time coming. After seeing all of the commercials and seeing the following interview, I finally reached my :wtf: moment with Italian mob movies



Personally, I'm tired of this shyt. We can't even get a damn movie based in Egypt to portray black character. But we have to sit through the glorification of the Italian mob which held back the advancement of black and brown people throughout the US since the Reconstruction era?

Can you imagine a movie about Tookie Williams or King David in which their stories are characterized as "shakespearean tragedies?" Can you imagine a muhfukka in a hollywood interview for Tookie Williams, proudly proclaiming that he was Tookie's character witness or proudly stating that he was "in awe of his mystique?"

Why the fukk are we okay with a movie about a South Boston gangster form the 70s - 90s as if Boston isn't notorious for racial segregation/the mob isn't one of the biggest enforcers of racial segregation north of the mason dixie?
Click to expand...

Who says "you" have to sit through the glorification of the Italian mob? Who says "you" are okay with it? And why is it someone else's problem that "you" can't get a movie based in Egypt to portray a black character?

Excluse me, but it's pretty simple: don't like it, don't watch it. You want movies to be a certain way, bankroll them yourself. Don't tell other people how they should spend their money or how they should do their work.

And don't act like Frank Lucas or Nicky Barnes or Iceberg Slim weren't media darlings at one point. Especially Frank Lucas and the way he was whitewashed in the Denzel movie about him.
 
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Danie84 said:
It always fascinated me how White Gangstas/Mafia is romanticized by America:smugbiden:

...but when the Mastermind Crook Is US, WE're deemed as LowLife Scumbags:mjpls:

But, that's the AmeriKKKa I know:leostare:
Click to expand...
"only the WHITE MAN can profit off pain in Amerikkka!"
-Chris Rock
 
HHR

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Also, the "Shakespearean tragedy" aspect of this story...if there is one...isn't found in Bulger's arc. It's found in Connelly's. Although, the script doesn't really focus on it (which is the major strike against the film, IMO).
 
tru_m.a.c

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Mr. Pink said:
Who says "you" have to sit through the glorification of the Italian mob? Who says "you" are okay with it? And why is it someone else's problem that "you" can't get a movie based in Egypt to portray a black character?

Excluse me, but it's pretty simple: don't like it, don't watch it. You want movies to be a certain way, bankroll them yourself. Don't tell other people how they should spend their money or how they should do their work.

And don't act like Frank Lucas or Nicky Barnes or Iceberg Slim weren't media darlings at one point. Especially Frank Lucas and the way he was whitewashed in the Denzel movie about him.
Click to expand...

So I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. For starters, I have absolutely no plans on watching this movie. I haven't even sat through more than 2 episodes of the Sopranos if that makes you feel better.

My point is that in white mob movies, the characters will always be viewed as complex individuals. Their stories and crimes will always come across as errors of the distance past, within a perfectly crafted race neutral bubble. We cannot, cannot, talk about police brutality or police corruption without talking about the mob. But these movies do not, and never have, invited an honest conversation about the legacy left by the mob and the dozens of white communities that profited from their illegal schemes and deadly protection.

I understand that in these movies, that is not the priority of the director. But that is essentially my point. In black gangster movies, when we do create complex individuals, our entire culture gets blamed for glorifying them. In our movies, we have to go out of our way to connect the gang life of the past with our current socio-economic condition. There will never be a movie about King David that won't end with a current snapshot of Southside Chicago in 2015. So why is it that white mob movies can escape this cultural criticism and not us?

In my opinion, white mob movies are an extension of the tired old statement "slavery happened sooooo long ago." Its like all critics and movie goers assume that once the movie ends, so does the mobs legacy. These people in the movie shouldn't just be seen as snapshots in time. The effects they had on urbanization was not isolated. The glorification allows for a "that was then, this is now" conversation on race relations in America.
 
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tru_m.a.c said:
So I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. For starters, I have absolutely no plans on watching this movie. I haven't even sat through more than 2 episodes of the Sopranos if that makes you feel better.

My point is that in white mob movies, the characters will always be viewed as complex individuals. Their stories and crimes will always come across as errors of the distance past, within a perfectly crafted race neutral bubble. We cannot, cannot, talk about police brutality or police corruption without talking about the mob. But these movies do not, and never have, invited an honest conversation about the legacy left by the mob and the dozens of white communities that profited from their illegal schemes and deadly protection.

I understand that in these movies, that is not the priority of the director. But that is essentially my point. In black gangster movies, when we do create complex individuals, our entire culture gets blamed for glorifying them. In our movies, we have to go out of our way to connect the gang life of the past with our current socio-economic condition. There will never be a movie about King David that won't end with a current snapshot of Southside Chicago in 2015. So why is it that white mob movies can escape this cultural criticism and not us?

In my opinion, white mob movies are an extension of the tired old statement "slavery happened sooooo long ago." Its like all critics and movie goers assume that once the movie ends, so does the mobs legacy. These people in the movie shouldn't just be seen as snapshots in time. The effects they had on urbanization was not isolated. The glorification allows for a "that was then, this is now" conversation on race relations in America.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is taking a "that was then, this is now" stance on this or other mob films. That said, the racism and long-term socio-economic impact of their reigns is something rarely touched on and an angle worth exploring. Although I wonder if a narrative dion would be the best vehicle for that message.

As to the difference between white and black "gangster" films, I don't see a huge difference in the critical/intellectual responses. I think black culture is blamed for glorifying gangsters in music, but I haven't seen that argument in film...mostly because the disconnect between reality and fantasy is more concrete. Maybe I'm missing these criticisms though. For whatever it matters, I am white.
 
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