Facts.
Which nba star from the 90s or early 2000s do you think would be average in today's game?
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FunkDoc1112
Heavily Armed
Goddamn nikka you are the most needlessly aggressive dude on this whole forum
FunkDoc1112
Heavily Armed
I like how you quoted the bit clearly explaining that he missed a giant chunk of the game due to foul trouble yet still made your moronic ass argument in lieu of it anyway
FunkDoc1112
Heavily Armed
The Larry Bird disrespect is out of hand 
Thats your argument? So we just going to ignore that it was his worse playoff game of his career. Foul trouble makes you shoot 2 for 10? Lance got in his head that series
No I didn't actually its in the same post quoted you tried your hardest to read but you tried tho. I'm proud of you anywayI like how you quoted the bit clearly explaining that he missed a giant chunk of the game due to foul trouble yet still made your moronic ass argument in lieu of it anyway
Explain the next game then
Indiana Pacers at Miami Heat Box Score, May 30, 2014 | Basketball-Reference.com
In the era of one-on-one defense when there were still a lot more unathletic guards in the league, Clyde could get away with that. Watch defense back then, most of the time his defender isn't even shading him to the right.
In today's era not only would his defender shade him to the right, but the entire defense behind him would be unbalanced in order to play to his tendencies. That's partially due to the legality of partial zones and partially due to defenses just becoming a lot more complex and scouting deeper to players' weaknesses. Clyde would have a real tough time of it, which is why no elite guards are so dominant in a single direction and NONE of them dribble with their heads down.
It's a stretch to say that Clyde was any sort of star in the grind era. The real grind era was 1997-2006. Drexler was pretty washed by then, 18ppg on 43% shooting at 34yo for a disappointing Houston team. He actually crashed very quickly - after 1992 (just 29yo) he only had one more 20ppg season.
Pace was still at 97 in 1992. It didn't drop below 95 for the first time until 1995. By comparison, pace was still only 93.9 as recently as 2015.
I put up playoff defense because that's the only time threes were even guarded in the 1990s. But even in the regular season Clyde sucked - he was a 31.8% three-point shooter in the regular season and that's almost entirely on open shots. 28.8% in the playoffs, 17% in the Finals.
And just take one look at his form and you know he ain't getting any better.
I didn't say their games were alike. Their games aren't alike because there was all sorts of shyt that you could get away with offensively in the 1990s that doesn't work anymore.Did he just compare Drexler and Wiggins?
Come on
Their games aren’t alike.
I asked what Clyde could do that Wiggins couldn't. They're both tall, very athletic shooting guards who are limited by their low bball IQ. Wiggins is taller, is at least as athletic (44" vertical during the combine), has a better jump shot, is a better ballhandler. So if Andrew Wiggins isn't a star in this era, then what is Clyde doing to reach star status?
Mark Price was the FIRST guy to split the double. No one had even thought of it before, that's how elementary it was. Now everyone can split the double. His first step wasn't anything where you'd convincing me that he'd be better at it now than everyone else.
I'd love to know how a 6'0" guy with no hops is finishing in today's NBA. He's not putting up acrobatic circus-layups like Kyrie (and Kyrie is both taller and far more athletic). So how is he getting the ball in the hoop?
This is what Mark Price's lack of athleticism looked like when he was trying to finish without an open path to the hoop:
Come on now.
And you know how I found that clip? I just typed "Mark Price playoffs" into youtube and that's the first video I clicked on. When you look outside of highlights clips you see plays like that right away. He'd still play in the league due to his court awareness and feel for the game but he ain't gonna be no 1st-team All-NBA or any sort of star at all at that height with that little athleticism.
Also notice that Price is playing next to Ehlo AND Kerr, who take turns guarding Petrovic. Danny Ferry and Chris Dudley on the court too. Six unathletic White Americans (wait 5, not Petro obviously) in the same playoff game. I'm supposed to believe that all of those guys could ball just as well in this era, but that White Americans...what, just stopped liking basketball or something?
Y'all WILDING now. This post exposed 90s stans more than anything else in the whole list.
Steph, CP3, Conley, and Lowry are all extremely athletic. MUCH, MUCH more athletic than John Stockton. The fact that you thought they weren't athletic just shows how accustomed you've become to the incredible all-around level of athleticism in today's NBA.
Conley's dad was an Olympic gold medalist in the triple-jump and a World Championships bronze medalist in the long jump. Conley was the fastest player in the combine, benched 185 pounds 13 times, and had a 40" running vertical. (36" standing). He is insanely athletic. In the 1990s he would have been a marvel. But in today's game, you fukking called him "unathletic".
Steph, CP3, and Lowry aren't Conley level but all three are very very good athletes too. Stockton is nowhere near their level.
Bullshyt. Stockton almost certainly couldn't jump even 30" at might bench 185lbs five times tops (if that). And he ain't quick. Saying that Stockton is as athletic as Conley is WILD shyt.
Nearly 30 pounds heavier than Stockton because he's so much stronger, something like a 40" vertical, and a very quick first step. If he had anything like Stockton-level athleticism he never would have touched the league even with all his skill.
Remember his form on jump shots? He had to jump about two feet in the air to get that thing off.
Now watch Stockton. I time-stamped if for the layin because it's wack as hell. He NEEDS to get off the ground and he still barely jumps.
Then watch Stockton's jump shot. Again, he barely gets off the ground on it, the only reason it works is because the defender is giving him 4 feet of space and not challenging the shot. But that's how it worked in the 1990s - defenders didn't really challenge threes, especially not in the regular season, unless the game was going down to the wire.
You can watch plenty of clips of Stockton shooting and notice the same thing. He doesn't shoot when guarded closely, only when given space, because he doesn't have the height to shoot over guys and he doesn't have the first step or the hops to create separation.
So what would he do in today's era where three-point shooters are guarded tight and three-point shots are challenged? He'd still be able to run the point, but he wouldn't be a scorer at all, he wouldn't be a star. He'd be a 12 and 10 guy at best and there's a dozen other guards who would be making All-NBA and All-Star teams over him.
Tell me, what happened to IT's game the SECOND he lost just a bit of that athleticism?
He still has all the skill in the world, but taking just a little bit off his quickness, and he fell so hard he's basically unplayable.
So it don't sound stupid at all to say that the 40" vert (and corresponding strength/quickness) was the only thing keeping him anywhere near star level.
Price, Skiles, Stockton, Hornacek, Kerr, Paxson, and del Negro were all short White guards in the 1990s. (Nash and White Chocolate too if you count the end of the 1990s). Bobby Hurley was the #7 draft pick too then he got in the car accident. Then if you count 6'4"/6'5" guys you also had Chapman, Petrovic, Sura, Barry. All 15 of those guys were starters except for Kerr and Kerr was a vital 20-25 minute piece of multiple title teams. So get out of there with that "there were only 2 white point guards" bullshyt. When Stockton came up in the 1990s the league was still like 25% American White guys, that slowly diminished during the 1990s but he was only hanging on like a dinosaur.
Stockton could ball. But he wouldn't be a star in the game today. And 1990s white guys weren't drinking no magic juice back then that they suddenly forgot to bring to the 2010s.
Defensively he'd be getting cooked but offensively he'd be a top 10 player today just off offense.
DetroitEWarren
Veteran
20 and 8 is not a star bro
. 16 and 6 at worse 
. Hed be a better player than dudes like Dragic easily imo
murksiderock
Superstar
He didn't beast in his own era, so if you agree with that, what the fukk are you debating?
You're just talking out your ass being smug. I doubt you even saw Stockton play besides the YouTube clips. You stat boy geeks are the worse.Bullshyt. Stockton almost certainly couldn't jump even 30" at might bench 185lbs five times tops (if that). And he ain't quick. Saying that Stockton is as athletic as Conley is WILD shyt.
Clowns talking about Conley's dad and what he did in pre draft workouts when we're talking about his game. Conley's game is not based on athleticism. They even joke about how dude doesn't even really have a highlight reel.
Mark Price never averaged 20ppg at any point in his career, even though he played half of it in the high-pace no-defense 80s, and now we have him averaging that in this era?
Kyrie only averaged 23 and 7 last year with skill and athleticism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Price in every respect and we're talking about MP almost matching that.
Dragic is 4 inches taller than Mark Price and far far far more athletic.
Why are you comparing Mark Price to someone who physical attributes are nothing like his? Show me the 6'0" point guard with actual Mark Price-level athleticism who is doing the things you claim that Mark Price can do in this era. Or anything close.
And Dragic isn't even next-level athleticism - just average-at-best athleticism in the NBA today. But Mark Price was nowhere near that. Show me the MOST athletic Mark Price clip you can find which shows how he would succeed at the top level today despite only being 6'0".
Kyrie only averaged 23 and 7 last year with skill and athleticism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Price in every respect and we're talking about MP almost matching that.
20 and 8 is not a star bro
Dragic is 4 inches taller than Mark Price and far far far more athletic.
Why are you comparing Mark Price to someone who physical attributes are nothing like his? Show me the 6'0" point guard with actual Mark Price-level athleticism who is doing the things you claim that Mark Price can do in this era. Or anything close.
And Dragic isn't even next-level athleticism - just average-at-best athleticism in the NBA today. But Mark Price was nowhere near that. Show me the MOST athletic Mark Price clip you can find which shows how he would succeed at the top level today despite only being 6'0".
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We can tell you ain't even reading the thread when I said already I've been a Blazer fan since 1987. We had numerous battles with the Malone/Stockton Jazz.
How old were you when you were watching prime Stockton. 6 years old? And you think that gives you any authority in the conversation?
I haven't said one lie about his game yet. He was short, he was unathletic, he had trouble putting up points when it mattered, he couldn't finish athletically at the rim, he didn't have a lot of lift on his jump shot, and he rarely scored when defenders were in his grill. All that shyt is true.
Probably their most memorable matchup for me was 1992, his absolute prime, going up against the Blazers in the WCF. It was a high-pace era still (Blazers still relied on the fast break for a heavy percentage of their scoring) and Portland didn't have anyone special defensively. Stockton was guarded almost exclusively by Terry Porter, who was a completely average defender but taller than Stockton with long arms. He shut his ass down - Stockton only averaged 14ppg on 39.7% shooting for the series and 23% from three. In Game 6, the elimination Game, Stockton went 5-19 from the field, 1-8 from three, with 5 turnovers. Against Terry Porter defense. 'They`re too athletic and quick for us," said Jeff Malone after one of the games.