Pippen has the edge on the defensive end over Bron too
Where does the idea that LeBron is a better all around player than Jordan come from
- Thread starter BrothaZay
- Start date
I doubt you actually watched much Penny at all. He was a poor 3pt shooter and a decent midrange shooter. Teams backed off of Bron because they were playing a zone defense and had to pick their poison - the fact that LeBron won titles on the strength of his shooting should tell you something. Even during his worst shooting stage (2003-2012) he was a better 3pt shooter than Penny was, and the evolved version from 2012-2020 is a class ahead.
LeBron is great on catch-and-shoot and spot-up threes, he just doesn't get them very often because he gets all the defensive attention and has rarely had a talented shot creator on the squad. One of the reason he shot 41% from three in 2013 was because Wade was setting him up for good looks.
That doesn't make him an elite shooter, but he has clearly become a good shooter, and he's better than Penny ever was.
And yet he's been one of the most effective post players in the NBA since 2012. He doesn't go to it much because other scoring opportunities are even more effective (which is why the entire NBA has reduced post play to a large degree), but when he does do it in specific situations he does extremely well. He has a great drop step, spin moves to both sides, fadeaways to both sides, can slip a layup under a player faked into the air, hits both hooks and fingerrolls with both hands, pulls his defender into the middle and then pops a little one-handed teardrop from close range, and sets those up with very good head and shoulder fakes, and is one of the best passers out of the post in the NBA.
www.si.com/nba/2014/03/19/nba-post-players-dirk-nowitzki-al-jefferson-lebron-james
LeBron James, Low-Post Beast
As far back as the 2012 ECF Game 6 LeBron was winning huge games off the strength of his post play. Here's some early Bron post dominance, when he wasn't smooth with it but still effective due to his strength, speed, IQ, and ambidexterity.
As time went on he developed more impressive and smoother moves, built off of shyt he learned from Hakeem and Kobe among others:
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malbaker86
Gators
Right, Bron IS the system and Jordan, under Phil, conformed to a system
The_Third_Man
Superstar
This is false
Harper guarding Tim Hardway in the playoffs
Harper guarding Payton in the finals
Harper Guarding Steve Smith in the playoffs
Harper Guarding Stockton in the finals
Harper guarding Reggie Miller in the playoffs
YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy
Superstar
Duncan not no damn GOAT... he was never the best player in the league ...u should have said Shaq instead 
Trojan 24
Veteran
At still thinking Bron on Jordan's level
murksiderock
Superstar
Don't do that, Duncan is a GOAT. If the criteria is that you had to be the best player in The League at some point, which I don't think is a bad ask, he's gonna make it off the same strength that Kobe makes it, because after Shaq started falling back to the pack, there was a stretch where there was no clear cut best player...and Duncan was right there with Kobe in contention for that stretch...
And honestly Dirk was too for a brief moment, people shyt on his legacy worse than they do Timmy's...
I've noticed for years now, that in retrospect people confuse the fact that Kobe was more popular AND more marketable than Duncan, with him being clear cut better than Duncan or the best player in the NBA at one point. In real time I remember it being understood that those two were elbowing each other for position, again with Dirk throwing his name in there for a brief 1-2 year stretch as well...
The fact that people say Duncan is the best player at a position is good enough for him to gain inclusion in the GOAT convo...
If there's an odd man out in GOAT talk, it should be Russell. He deserves inclusion for winning more than anyone but he's the guy who should go if you start questioning qualifiers or credentials...
Def a stat Geek opinion...."Guarding more positions" is the worst argument for being a better defender....Lebron could guard more positions than Gary Payton too...the same Gary Payton that gave the GOAT MJ some trouble in the finals....dont make him a better defender than Gary Payton....shyt Draymond Green can "guard more positions " than MJ and GP too but if I made a thread about it yall wouldn't even entertain that argument cause Draymonds a clown on the Coli....Bron fans be the most disingenuous.
No way in hell you watched both Bron and Mike play in real time, are "unbiased", and seriously claim Jordan and Bron as passers is "debatable". Get the fukk out of here.I don't look at stats, those who want to diminish MJ do. I watched MJ play back then and am basing myself on what I saw from him and Bron. Only thing Bron has on MJ is the rebounding, which makes sense since he's basically Karl Malone body-wise. Passing is debatable, and 3 pointers has to be put in the context of the 3 pointer being much less important then than now. Still knocked down 6 of them in a half to set the tone on the biggest stage so
Shaq is definitely fair, I only gave Duncan the nod cuz he the best ever at his position.
murksiderock
Superstar
This goes both ways, because there are a number of posters who have "conveniently forgotten" that LeBron is an All-Time defender in crunch time and at his best was probably the best wing defender in The League...
The lengths this board goes to, to minimize his defensive greatness is cartoonish. I'm not speaking directly as to if he was better than Mike on that end, I didn't see Mike play. I know that its tiring hearing this board pretend that Bron didn't help win multiple championships based in part on some really clutch and elite defensive play, and none of the players on LeBron's level that I've seen (so I'm saying Kobe, Duncan, Shaq) were greater defenders than Bron besides Duncan, yet we run around with this implication that LeBron is some bottom tier defensive player...
So your point goes for all the cats who say LeBron wasn't a great defensive player...
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& kareem laughed*