"What's the 'most work' Black Americans put in towards the Pan African movement?" -generic-username

[Professor Emeritus]

Thanks much for all the history. There's some really worthwhile, little-discussed shyt in there that I hope the folk who dapped you actually read, because it gives some depth to the conversation and goes against a lot of the narratives that some of those same dappers like to push a lot of the time.

What's the point of arguing about this?

Pan Africanism is about the IDEA and GOAL of global unity amongst the diaspora. It's not about who has done what for who lately. White supremacy, imperialism and colonialism has held the diaspora down and caused a lot of the division you see today. Pointing out the division and then saying "SEE I TOLD YOU PAN AFRICANISM IS A FARCE" is completely idiotic.

Well said. Plus sometimes I get the feeling that it’s sometimes forgotten in the diaspora that the continent faced colonization for decades which was not only brutal but set the stage for further exploitation down the line. It’s ironic, because Africans (often the colonized c00n type) may say something ignorant of the diaspora because of not knowing history or context but the same can happen in reverse too where it’s assumed because you’re on the land of your ancestors that you haven’t been dispossessed of that land and made a second class citizen on your own soil. We all got fukked over, and Black people on code are fully understanding of this and link across the borders and oceans that divide us.

This shyt isn’t a pissing contest. It’s the attempt to get justice for all Black people on this planet who were wronged by white supremacy.

Yeah, most of the arguments I've seen about this are really, really dumb. The moment you start getting into "we black people are better than you black people!" you've already killed the vibe.

I was not in that thread mentioned, but the conversations I’ve seen around Pan Africanism the past year or so has always centered around the argument that black Americans are the only ones trying to unite therefore tPan Africanism is dead and we shouldn’t aspire for unification or care about anyone but ourselves. BOTH of these arguments are silly to me and completely tangential to the problems black people in the world face today. We all need to be focused on establishing and growing togetherness amongst black people if we ever want to free ourselves from the reigns of white supremacy. Not wasting time arguing about who has done what thus far, who was first to do this and that, and other my tribe is better than your tribe bullshyt.

I don’t remember Malcom, Martin, the black panthers, or any other influential black leader or group — who managed to actually make some progress — focusing on such nonsense. But they understood that the enemy was white supremacy above all else. Clowns today just want to get the best seats under a system of white supremacy.

Exactly. Anyone who is starting arguments like this needs to seriously question themselves and what kind of end result they really think they're getting out of it.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

basically;free people of color which usually described light skinned people;negro which meant darker/unmixed blacks, would became: colored american (this would later become afro-american and/or black), to encompass all shades/mixes of afro-descendants


this exact process played out when Frederick Douglas who was from the South, went North and encountered; "Black Yankees"

...one of the afro-european "Black Yankees" that Douglas encountered and was heavily impacted by; also happens to be one of the earliest advocates of the term "Black" instead of "colored," for self-identification

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[Whogivesafuck]

I was not in that thread mentioned, but the conversations I’ve seen around Pan Africanism the past year or so has always centered around the argument that black Americans are the only ones trying to unite therefore tPan Africanism is dead and we shouldn’t aspire for unification or care about anyone but ourselves. BOTH of these arguments are silly to me and completely tangential to the problems black people in the world face today. We all need to be focused on establishing and growing togetherness amongst black people if we ever want to free ourselves from the reigns of white supremacy. Not wasting time arguing about who has done what thus far, who was first to do this and that, and other my tribe is better than your tribe bullshyt.

I don’t remember Malcom, Martin, the black panthers, or any other influential black leader or group — who managed to actually make some progress — focusing on such nonsense. But they understood that the enemy was white supremacy above all else. Clowns today just want to get the best seats under a system of white supremacy.

Not Pan-Africanism but BPP got bogged down in the trivial Cultural Nationalism vs Revolutionary Nationalism conflict with other organization which they initiated first.Don't get me started on there dismissive stance on community programs such as Teen post,C.Y.D and WLCAC. Most people in my neighborhood and others who grew up during that time saw them as beneficial.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

....as I build towards my main point, the biggest reason Garvey left Jamaica was because in his opinion: he could never achieve his pan-african agenda in his country or the caribbean because they were too fractured identity wise because of the caste systems that were so prevalent. So in the end, they lacked strong "negro" pride

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garvey's own words:

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[IllmaticDelta]

....one obviously can't partake in any Pan-Africanism, if the people do not see themselves as part of the same "Afro," race. This problem popped up in alot of places, that were/are potential prospects for nurturing, Pan-Africanist ideals and connections


This is why Alain Locke asked Halie Selassie if he thought of himself and other ethiopians of his type as "black" (negro) lol

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and, as I pointed out, many places of what we would call "Afro" people had their own racial and caste systems; some were native african systems of race and other's, in the Americas were European, created.




Caribbean-Latin America

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Sudan

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Haiti

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Ethiopia

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Fulani zone of West Africa

Brazil

 

[315]

 

[IllmaticDelta]

.........so, how did various segments within the afro-atlantic attempt to overcome tribalism and racial caste systems? The answer is;they appropriated the Afram;"Black" concept.


Brazil went from

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Dark-Skinned Or Black? How Afro-Brazilians Are Forging A Collective Identity

If you want to get a sense of how complex racial identity is in Brazil, you should meet sisters Francine and Fernanda Gravina. Both have the same mother and father. Francine, 28, is blond with green eyes and white skin. She wouldn't look out of place in Iceland. But Fernanda, 23, has milk chocolate skin with coffee colored eyes and hair. Francine describes herself as white, whereas Fernanda says she's morena, or brown-skinned.

"We'd always get questions like, 'How can you be so dark skinned and she's so fair?'" Fernanda says. In fact, the sisters have German, Italian, African and indigenous ancestry. But in Brazil, Fernanda explains, people describe themselves by color, not race, since nearly everyone here is mixed.

All of that is to say, collecting demographic information in Brazil has been really tricky. The latest census, taken in 2010, found for the first time that Brazil has the most people of African descent outside Africa. No, this doesn't mean that Afro-Brazilian population suddenly, dramatically increased. Rather, the new figures reflect changing attitudes about race and skin color in Brazil.

"There is a totally different system here than in the U.S., where one drop of black blood makes you black independent of appearance," Petruccelli says. In Brazil, it's about how you'd like to classify yourself, and how others see you. The problem, he says, is that Afro-Brazilians have no sense of collective identity, which makes it difficult to address the very real problem of racism and racial inequality in the country.

But lately, that's starting to change, and the black pride movement in Brazil is growing. On a recent morning at the beach in Rio de Janeiro, a march celebrating black women in Brazil started with with dancing and singing. One of the demonstrators, Jurema Werneck, who works at Criolla, an advocacy group for black women, says the goal of the march is to show that Brazil is a black nation, largely populated black and African Brazilians. "We need to fight racism and not to hide it," Werneck says.


She's been participating in the black pride movement for over 15 years. And it seems to be working, she says, because the number of people self identifying as pardo or preto surged in the latest census.

And more importantly, lawmakers are beginning to pay more attention to issues of inequality. Brazil now has an affirmative action program for higher education. Before the program launched, only seven percent of Afro-Brazilians went to college. Now it's about 15 percent, and the numbers are growing.

Werneck says the black pride movement is also lobbying to change the next census in 2020 to include the word black. Pardo and preto, she says, are euphemisms. Afro-Brazilians should take a cue from African-Americans, she says, and broadcast to society that they're black and proud.

and

As the IBGE itself acknowledges, these categories are disputed, and most of the population dislike it and do not identify with them.[49]:1 Most Brazilians see "Indígena" as a cultural rather than racial term, and don't describe as such if they are part of the mainstream Brazilian culture; many Brazilians would prefer to self-describe as "morenos" (used in the sense of "tanned" or "brunettes");[50] some Black and parda people, more identified with the Brazilian Black movement, would prefer to self-describe as "Negro" as an inclusive category containing pardos and pretos;[49]:2 and if allowed to choose any classification, Brazilians will give almost 200 different answers.[49]:4

According to the American scholar Edward Telles,[51] in Brazil there are three different systems related to "racial classification" along the White-Black continuum.[52]:80–81 The first is the Census System, which distinguishes three categories: "branco" (White), "pardo", and "preto" (Black).[52]:81 The second is the popular system that uses many different categories, including the ambiguous term "moreno"[52]:82 ("tanned", "brunette", or "with an olive complexion").[53] The third is the Black movement system that distinguishes only two categories, summing up "pardos" and "pretos" as "negros".[52]: More recently, the term "afrodescendente" has been brought into use.[54]

Race and ethnicity in Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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"Brown" Jamaicas went from

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SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I said it that way because people say, well, how will you be able to be successful in my military career and in the other things I've done in life. And I said that I grew up in a very diverse environment, and because I am not that black as a physical matter -- I am as black as anybody whose skin could be 20 shades darker than mine -- I consider myself an African American, a black man, proud of it and proud to stand on the shoulders of those who went before me. But I know that because of my background and my upbringing, I'm probably more acceptable over the years to the white power structure that I was dealing with as I came up.


Because, you see, Jim Crow and discrimination is not history to me; it's my life. I was raised in the pre-civil rights period. I've been thrown out of places because I was just black enough not to be served. So I have no illusions about who I am or what I am. But as I go about my job, what I say to people is I'm the American Secretary of State; I'm also black. I don't say I'm the black American Secretary of State, because it implies, gee, is there a white one somewhere, you know? [Laughter.] No, I am the Secretary of State. You take me as you see me, a proud American representing his country, and by the way, I'm awfully proud to be black. And I want, as a black person, to be an example and an inspiration to not just other black youngsters coming along, but to all youngsters who may think that because of their background or where they came from or their origins, somehow they can't achieve their dream. In our society you can. And I'm an example of it, out of the South Bronx, immigrant parents; you know the story. And I was able to achieve because there were people who were willing to accept me for what I was, treat me right, and allow me to demonstrate my ability. And these were white people, black people. These were people superior to me, people who worked for me, who trusted me. And that's the message I've always tried to convey to young people.

Be Heard: An MTV Global Discussion With Colin Powell

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many Latinos of African descent went from


People of Color Who Never Felt They Were Black

By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer

At her small apartment near the National Cathedral in Northwest Washington, Maria Martins quietly watched as an African American friend
studied a picture of her mother. "Oh," the friend said, surprise in her voice. "Your mother is white."

She turned to Martins. "But you are black."

That came as news to Martins, a Brazilian who, for 30 years before immigrating to the United States, looked in the mirror and saw a morena
-- a woman with caramel-colored skin that is nearly equated with whiteness in Brazil and some other Latin American countries. "I didn't realize
I was black until I came here," she said.

That realization has come to hundreds of thousands of dark-complexioned immigrants to the United States from Brazil, Colombia, Panama
and other Latin nations with sizable populations of African descent. Although most do not identify themselves as black, they are seen that way
as soon as they set foot in North America.


Race matters in Latin America, but it matters differently.

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Those perceptions come to the United States with the light- and dark-complexioned Latinos who carry them. But here, they collide with two contradictory forces:
North American prejudice and African American pride.

'I've Learned to Be Proud'

Vilson DaSilva, a native of Brazil, is a moreno. Like his wife, Maria Martins, he was born to a black father and a white mother. But their views on race seem to
differ.

During an interview when Martins said she had no idea how they had identified themselves on the 2000 Census form, DaSilva rolled his eyes. "I said we were
black," he said.

He is one of a growing number of Latin immigrants of African descent who identify themselves as Afro-Latino, along the same color spectrum as African Americans.

"I've learned to be proud of my color," he said. For that, he thanked African American friends who stand up for equal rights.



DaSilva agreed that nuances separate African Americans and Afro-Latinos, but he also believes that seeing Latin America through African American eyes gave him a
better perspective. Unfortunately, he said, it also made him angrier and more stressed.

When DaSilva returned to Brazil for a visit, he asked questions he had never asked, and got answers that shocked him.

His mother told him why her father didn't speak to her for 18 years: "It was because she married a black man," he said. One day, DaSilva's own father pulled him
aside to provide his son some advice. " 'You can play around with whoever you want,' " DaSilva recalled his father saying, " 'but marry your own kind.' " So DaSilva
married Martins, the morena of his dreams.

She is dreaming of a world with fewer racial barriers, a world she believes she left in Brazil to be with her husband in Washington.


Martins said her perspective on race was slowly conforming to the American view, but it saddened her. She doesn't understand why she can't call a pretty black girl
a negrita, the way Latin Americans always say it, with affection. She doesn't understand why she has to say she's black, seeming to deny the existence of her
mother.

"Sometimes I say she is black on the outside and white on the inside," DaSilva said of his wife, who threw her head back and laughed.

People of Color Who Never Felt They Were Black


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Angela commented, “Some people would say Dominican people are black.” And Dascha agrees. She said,

“I consider myself an afro-Latina. I think we’re very black. I consider myself to be a black woman. I think a lot of Dominicans should from what I see, that’s what we are.”

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South Africa

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[IllmaticDelta]

....one of the reasons, amongst many, why I say that Aframs are the TRUE architects of Pan-Africanism as we know it; is directly tied to the Afram, "Black" concept. Without this concept it would be infinitely harder for interplay within the global afro-diaspora because of the lack of racial and ethnic, commonness. The "black" concept spread globally along with Pan-Africanism, Black Consciousness, Black Politics, Black Pride, Black visual aesthetics; all through various streams such as Harlem Renaissance->Negritude,

HBCU's, Black Power-Civil rights, music and theater/film.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

One of the biggest influences in the Pan-african agenda

his music was attached to militancy, pan-africanism, black power/civil rights, and black pride as you will see in the global examples below:


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James Brown's influence (music and message) on jamaica, reggae and marley

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his influence on africa, in general

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[IllmaticDelta]

.....cont from James Brown



On Fela Kuti






“It was incredible how my head was turned,” Kuti told the New York Times in 1987. “Everything fell into place. For the first time, I saw the essence of blackism. It’s crazy; in the States people think the black power movement drew inspiration from Africa. All these Americans come over here looking for awareness, they don’t realize they’re the ones who’ve got it over there. We were even ashamed to go around in national dress until we saw pictures of blacks wearing dashikis on 125th street.”

>Fela Kuti and traditional African religion

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Malians

Two girls in Bamako, Mali with a copy of James Brown‘s Live at the Apollo, Volume II. Circa 1968.

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A panel pays tribute to the musical legacy of James Brown. During the 1960s James Brown gained the titles "Godfather of Soul" and the "Hardest Working Man in Show Business." Brown's sound reflected the nation's generational struggle, and his influence reached across the Atlantic to Bamako, Mali, where his style and music became a source of inspiration for the growing youth culture. It was this vibrant culture that Malick Sidibe dynamically captured through his photographs.

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Brazil

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South Africa/Biko

 

[IllmaticDelta]

..more on how afram "black" concept and black power came to influence brazil's; black consciousness

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[IllmaticDelta]

the women below is a Brazilian (Danielle Gomes) who came to the USA and she gives her insight on some of what I just posted above (racial perception differences, black identity, and black consciousness) which are all parts of a/her Pan-Africanist agenda

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[IllmaticDelta]

afram female aesthetic that plays a part in Brazil's "black" movement

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[IllmaticDelta]

cont from Angela Davis/Brazil

Lowkey to some; the modern global natural hair movement was pioneered by Afram womenand...is a form of black consciousness/black pride that has ballooned to globalized, Pan-Africanism

1960's

60/70's





2000s

The natural hair movement is a movement which encourages women of African descent to keep their natural afro-textured hair. Born in the USA during the 2000s,[1][2] this movement is named "mouvement nappy" in French-speaking countries.[3][4][5][6]


The movement designates black women who wear afro-textured hair in its natural, coiled or curly state (as well as those who do not chemically straighten their hair but may still choose to wear it straight). The word "nappy" has been subjected to denigration since the Atlantic slave trade. Thereafter, some Afrodescendants have positively taken the word back, considered in francophone countries as a backronym made up of "natural" and "happy."[3][7][8][9]



The natural hair movement today
For about ten years, thanks to Web 2.0, a growing number of people have been sharing their beauty advice via:

• blogs: Black Girl Long Hair,[1][20][21] Naturally Curly,[1][20][22] Curly Nikki,[1][23][24] Hair Lista,[20][25] Afrobella,[1][26][27] Un-ruly.com[28][29][30] in the USA; Black Beauty Bag,[9][31][32][33] Afrobelle,[34][35] Ivy-Mag[36][37] in France
• Facebook pages:
  • 
    USA: Natural Chica;[20][38][39]
  • 
    Quebec: Racines Crépues;[40]
  • 
    France: Révèle-toi,[36][41] Boucles d’Ébène,[42][43][44] Belle Ébène,[45][46] Natural Hair Academy,[3][47] Black and Beautiful;[48][49]
  • 
    Senegal: Astuces Beauté Africaine;[50]
  • 
    Ivory Coast: Nappys De Babi;[3][11][51]
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    Cameroon: Les Bidouilles d'une Nappy,[4][11] So Natural So Me;[11][52]
  • 
    South Africa: My Fro & I;[53]
  • 
    Togo: Frisettes & Co.;[11]
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    Mali: Nappys de Bamako;[54]
  • 
    Democratic Republic of the Congo: Nappy Girls du Congo Kinshasa;
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    Gabon: Nappy du Gabon;
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    Guinea: Nappy de Guinée;
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    Niger: Les Nappy Du Niger.[55]
• forums: Beauté d'Afrik[56] in France; Long Hair Care Forum,[1][25][57] Black Naps[58][59] and Nappturality[60][61] in the USA
• web-zines: Naturally Happy Hair[62] in the USA; FashizBlack,[3][63] Afrosomething[48][64][65] in France; Afro Style Magazine[66] in the Netherlands
• videos: Beautiful Naturelle[3][36] in France
• youtubers: "naptural85" ,"thechicnatural", "journeytowaistlength", "mynaturalsistas"

These websites have expanded the natural hair movement around the world so as to highlight the beauty of natural African hair.[3][4][17]


Outside of USA, several events have developed in order to accompany the natural hair movement, particularly in France and in Africa:

• The salon Boucles d'ébène: A demonstration, has existed for ten years, dedicated to the black hairdressing and beauty.[3][43][44][78]
• The Miss Nappy Paris′ competition: The election of "Miss Nappy" so as to promote the Afro hair beauty.[3][79]
• The Massalia Nappy Days: Lectures, projections of documentaries and fashion shows.[80]
• The Crépue d'ébène Festival at Abidjan (Ivory Coast): Dedicated to the natural beauty of the African woman and to the highlighting of the nappy hair.[81]
• The Natural Hair Academy: Event to better understand the nappy hair, days of advice by speakers.[3][47]
• The AfricaParis Festival: Dedicated to the "Afropean" culture.[3]

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm ACL/ADOS. This exchange doesn't make any damn sense and doesn't seem to help us. It just seems like @generic-username wanted to hand wave away the things that ADOS have done.