Whats the coli's opinion on Voodoo?
- Thread starter Dank Hill
- Start date
Eshu is created, the spirit created by Olofin in heaven, he who is born in heaven. Olofin gave Eshu “three main” keys:
1 - The key of the underworld.
2 – The key of the ancestors.
3 – The key for us to come back to Heaven.
And another that he has to open up the other dimensions and portals between Heaven and Earth.
Eshu is a very strong entity that Olofin was sent with Ogun to Earth to make a way for us to live here on.
Ogun would clear the path, and Eshu would open the path for us to live on this Earth.
Eshu is an entity that was created to give us an incentive to live on earth.
Eshu brought the languages, various tribes and races etc with him. All the diversity both within and outside of Nature. All the different ways of worship and methods of doing different things spiritually and secularly; the good and bad. We use our freewill to choose what path to take. God sent him to test us. But all of this is the great mysteries of Eshu. The holder of all keys to open all doors both spiritual and physical.
Eshu receives all the ebos. There are 21 Eshus that go into 121 when coming down to earth. There are many Eshus. Eshu is an old man with a young man’s heart. The Babalawos are the only ones who can make Eshu or conjure him to a stone [one of the original Eshu Yangi, growing stone]. No others can make Eshu. Eshu cannot be crowned on your head he is so immense.
Now on to Ellegua [Elegba]…
Ellegua is Eshu when he incarnates within the realms of Aye (Earth).
Ellegua is the Orisha that god also sent down from Heaven to aid Eshu. Eshu is half Orisha and half Egun. Eshu is full Orisha-Irunmole; his path also 21 and 121. They however are not the same. Eshu when received should stay near your shrine near your warriors. Ogun and Eshu should always stay together, they support one another. Eshu protects the door of your house from evil entity, along with Ogun.
Eshu stays in the house and outside the door with Ogun guarding your home. Ellegua goes outside, he is a street entity, he is at the corner or crossroads. He goes with you everyday to open the roads for you.
Service him on Monday at night-time.
Unlike Eshu, Ellegua can be crowned.
Eshu cannot be crowned,” he is a divine phenomenon”.
He is too big. To immense. But Ellegua can.
In Nigeria when they crown you, they crown Eshu, because they call Eshu and Ellegua the same.
Understand once again, Ellegua is the Orisha who opens the door for each Orisha to come down for them to communicate with their children. He presides over all ceremonies done in Orisha; he is the first Orisha you must call and pour libation to protect and passive negative forces around you. He is the one that stands by you when you doing initiations and ceremonies, when you die he is the one that brings you to the cemetery and connect you with the spirits who govern those realms, and present you to the ancestors; your ancestors.
Each Orisha has an Ellegua.
Eshu deals and communicates directly with Olofin, Ellegua however deals directly with Orisha and Egungun.
Is there a connection with the concepts of Satan and Christ?
Eshu is not the devil. Ellegua is not the devil. The missionaries in their ignorance and misunderstanding of African worldview and African spirituality tried to correspond the divine expression that is Eshu and Ellegua with Satan the Devil within the Euro-Christian context and manner of organizing. Their ignorance started them to calling them [Eshu and Ellegua] the devil. Within the Yoruba traditions the closest correspondence to the Devil, would be “Olosi” is a dark force; he or that which is in opposition to the Light; in Lucumi he is also known as Abita, which is a mystery that ONLY a Babalawo has to be able communicate directly with the Satan the Devil himself.
SIDE NOTE In talking about the mysteries of Lukankanse and Lugambi, etc. it should also be understood that these forces are not the Euro-Christian devil either, but however within the class and realms of “dark forces”.
In what way is Eshu and Ellegua connected to the other?
Eshua and Ellegua is directly connected to Orunmila; he Orunmila made a pact with his brother Eshu that he would always take care of him. Before a Babalawo does anything he pours libration to “Eshu-Ellegua”. This is the only way to bring the destiny of the person to manifest in the odu; within Vodun this is called the “Fa Legba” and is one calling down ones “Star” which is their heavenly and divine destiny which we are the materlization thereof; and many other things.
Eshu adada is the most important Eshu to the Babalawo.
Eshua adada, also has special connections with Shango….Shango works with any kind of Eshu or Ellegua.
Eshu is a masculine force, with feminine attributes, he is the phallus. The owner and distributor of Ashe, his phallus is a symbol of this power and vital forces.
For a women to be a women she must she opened by a man. [This has to do with a deep interchange of principals and energies, not with one’s personal beliefs or sensitivities]
The phallus symboliszes the power of Eshu. Ellegua has both male and female.
The true owners of ashe is Eshu, Ogun and the Ibejis. TheIbejis brought it [ashe] down.
1 - The key of the underworld.
2 – The key of the ancestors.
3 – The key for us to come back to Heaven.
And another that he has to open up the other dimensions and portals between Heaven and Earth.
Eshu is a very strong entity that Olofin was sent with Ogun to Earth to make a way for us to live here on.
Ogun would clear the path, and Eshu would open the path for us to live on this Earth.
Eshu is an entity that was created to give us an incentive to live on earth.
Eshu brought the languages, various tribes and races etc with him. All the diversity both within and outside of Nature. All the different ways of worship and methods of doing different things spiritually and secularly; the good and bad. We use our freewill to choose what path to take. God sent him to test us. But all of this is the great mysteries of Eshu. The holder of all keys to open all doors both spiritual and physical.
Eshu receives all the ebos. There are 21 Eshus that go into 121 when coming down to earth. There are many Eshus. Eshu is an old man with a young man’s heart. The Babalawos are the only ones who can make Eshu or conjure him to a stone [one of the original Eshu Yangi, growing stone]. No others can make Eshu. Eshu cannot be crowned on your head he is so immense.
Now on to Ellegua [Elegba]…
Ellegua is Eshu when he incarnates within the realms of Aye (Earth).
Ellegua is the Orisha that god also sent down from Heaven to aid Eshu. Eshu is half Orisha and half Egun. Eshu is full Orisha-Irunmole; his path also 21 and 121. They however are not the same. Eshu when received should stay near your shrine near your warriors. Ogun and Eshu should always stay together, they support one another. Eshu protects the door of your house from evil entity, along with Ogun.
Eshu stays in the house and outside the door with Ogun guarding your home. Ellegua goes outside, he is a street entity, he is at the corner or crossroads. He goes with you everyday to open the roads for you.
Service him on Monday at night-time.
Unlike Eshu, Ellegua can be crowned.
Eshu cannot be crowned,” he is a divine phenomenon”.
He is too big. To immense. But Ellegua can.
In Nigeria when they crown you, they crown Eshu, because they call Eshu and Ellegua the same.
Understand once again, Ellegua is the Orisha who opens the door for each Orisha to come down for them to communicate with their children. He presides over all ceremonies done in Orisha; he is the first Orisha you must call and pour libation to protect and passive negative forces around you. He is the one that stands by you when you doing initiations and ceremonies, when you die he is the one that brings you to the cemetery and connect you with the spirits who govern those realms, and present you to the ancestors; your ancestors.
Each Orisha has an Ellegua.
Eshu deals and communicates directly with Olofin, Ellegua however deals directly with Orisha and Egungun.
Is there a connection with the concepts of Satan and Christ?
Eshu is not the devil. Ellegua is not the devil. The missionaries in their ignorance and misunderstanding of African worldview and African spirituality tried to correspond the divine expression that is Eshu and Ellegua with Satan the Devil within the Euro-Christian context and manner of organizing. Their ignorance started them to calling them [Eshu and Ellegua] the devil. Within the Yoruba traditions the closest correspondence to the Devil, would be “Olosi” is a dark force; he or that which is in opposition to the Light; in Lucumi he is also known as Abita, which is a mystery that ONLY a Babalawo has to be able communicate directly with the Satan the Devil himself.
SIDE NOTE In talking about the mysteries of Lukankanse and Lugambi, etc. it should also be understood that these forces are not the Euro-Christian devil either, but however within the class and realms of “dark forces”.
In what way is Eshu and Ellegua connected to the other?
Eshua and Ellegua is directly connected to Orunmila; he Orunmila made a pact with his brother Eshu that he would always take care of him. Before a Babalawo does anything he pours libration to “Eshu-Ellegua”. This is the only way to bring the destiny of the person to manifest in the odu; within Vodun this is called the “Fa Legba” and is one calling down ones “Star” which is their heavenly and divine destiny which we are the materlization thereof; and many other things.
Eshu adada is the most important Eshu to the Babalawo.
Eshua adada, also has special connections with Shango….Shango works with any kind of Eshu or Ellegua.
Eshu is a masculine force, with feminine attributes, he is the phallus. The owner and distributor of Ashe, his phallus is a symbol of this power and vital forces.
For a women to be a women she must she opened by a man. [This has to do with a deep interchange of principals and energies, not with one’s personal beliefs or sensitivities]
The phallus symboliszes the power of Eshu. Ellegua has both male and female.
The true owners of ashe is Eshu, Ogun and the Ibejis. TheIbejis brought it [ashe] down.
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
This reminds me of how Christians made the Igbo God Ekwensu, a trickster God who aided traders and warriors, into the Devil.
Of the same mind that voodoo is evil. Everytime someone has shared a story about voodoo it was very negative.
In a sense, prayer can be likened to voodoo. i.e. A friend told me that her uncle's girlfriend had a root put on him for his money/love and that each time it was wearing off his hatred for her became more intense so she had to keep using spells until they broke up. Another friend's mom told me that she believed that his girlfriend was putting spells in his food and that his behavior towards her (the mom) was very hostile after eating food from his girlfriend. The girlfriend was trying to turn him against his family & friends. Lots of other crazy stories.
However, I have an interest in the topic and will research it on my own one day.
Last edited:
CEITEDMOFO
Banned
Many practitioners in the ‘West’, who practice the Yorùbá spiritual tradition (colloquially called Ifa), are familiar with the Yorùbá term egúngún and often equate this to mean “ancestors.” From the evidence to be provided below, this is a modern association. The word egúngún is associated with “masks” and “masquerades,” which are all connected to ancestor reverence: thus, the association with “ancestors.”
However, even this association is a derived one. The word egúngún fundamentally means “to beat.” And this they used to do at the masquerades. Without the rising tone marks on the /u/ vowels, the word egungun means “bone.” The humerus bone and the bones of animals were man’s first striking instruments. At the Yorùbá egúngún festivals in Ibadan, for example, the police had to make the carrying of whips illegal at the masquerades because of the records of people maimed with the whips, some actually dying. This practice can be compared to Shia Muslims whipping and cutting themselves during the month of Muharram; specifically the day of Ashura. This is a religious festival.
The Yorùbá word egúngún is cognate with Egyptian /qnqn/ "to beat; to pound up (med.)" [Wb 5, 55.4-56.9; FCD 280]. Here Yorùbá /g/ corresponds to Egyptian /q/, and Yorùbá /n/ to Egyptian /n/. Derived forms of the Egyptian form can be seen in the following:
/qnqn/ "chastisement" [Lesko, Dictionary IV, 17]
/qnqn.yt/ "mallet" [Wb 5, 56.10; FCD 280]
/qnqn/ "a cut of meat" [Wb 5, 56.11-12; AEO II, 244*]
We can prove the sound correspondences between Yorùbá and Egyptian with the following series:
Yorùbá: Ogún “God of iron, war, hunting”
Yorùbá: ogún “war”
Yorùbá: akin “bravery, brave, valor”
Yorùbá: okun “strength”
Yorùbá: akoni “brave person, hero”
Egyptian: /qn/ "strong warrior" [Wb 5, 44.7-16; FCD 279]
Egyptian: /qn/ "strong, brave; capable" [Wb 5, 42.2-43.17]
Egyptian: /qn/ "to conquer" [Wb 5, 44.1-2; FCD 279]
Egyptian: /qnqn.nw/ “fight, battle” [Budge 772B]
Yorùbá: ológìnní “cat”
Yorùbá: ekun “tiger” (cat family);
Yorùbá: kìnníún “lion” (cat family)
Egyptian: /qn/ "strong lion" (a water spout shaped like a lion's head) [Wb 5, 47.14-15; vgl. Wilson, Ptol. Lexikon, 1062]
Yorùbá: gún “to pound” (pulverize)
Yorùbá: kàn "to hammer"
Egyptian: /qn/ "to beat" [Wb 5, 44.3-4]
Yorùbá: gún “finished"
Yorùbá: igun “angle, edge, extremes”; "product"; "grade 1"
Yorùbá: èkun "end, limits"
Yorùbá: okan “1” – integer
Egyptian: /qn/ "to complete; to finish" [Wb 5, 49.1-14; FCD 279; Wilson, Ptol. Lexikon 1062]
Egyptian: /qn/ "end; first quality" [Wb 5, 49.15-50.2; FCD 279]
Egyptian: /qnb.t/ "corner; angle" [Wb 5, 53.5-6]
Note that there is a /g/ and /k/ interchange in the C1 position in Yorùbá. Thus, the egúngún “masks, masquerades” > “ancestors” are derived meanings from the acts of “beating” that used to be prominent at the festivals. At the same time, it can also derive from egungun “bones” as in “bones of the ancestors.” Traditional societies often buried their dead in the homestead. If the family or clan moved, they would have to dig up the graves of their ancestors and bury them in the new location. All that is left of the ancestors are their “bones.” The two meanings “bones” and “to strike, beat” came together at the festival reserved to honor the ancestors and became both a concept and ritual act due to paronymy.
more coming
However, even this association is a derived one. The word egúngún fundamentally means “to beat.” And this they used to do at the masquerades. Without the rising tone marks on the /u/ vowels, the word egungun means “bone.” The humerus bone and the bones of animals were man’s first striking instruments. At the Yorùbá egúngún festivals in Ibadan, for example, the police had to make the carrying of whips illegal at the masquerades because of the records of people maimed with the whips, some actually dying. This practice can be compared to Shia Muslims whipping and cutting themselves during the month of Muharram; specifically the day of Ashura. This is a religious festival.
The Yorùbá word egúngún is cognate with Egyptian /qnqn/ "to beat; to pound up (med.)" [Wb 5, 55.4-56.9; FCD 280]. Here Yorùbá /g/ corresponds to Egyptian /q/, and Yorùbá /n/ to Egyptian /n/. Derived forms of the Egyptian form can be seen in the following:
/qnqn/ "chastisement" [Lesko, Dictionary IV, 17]
/qnqn.yt/ "mallet" [Wb 5, 56.10; FCD 280]
/qnqn/ "a cut of meat" [Wb 5, 56.11-12; AEO II, 244*]
We can prove the sound correspondences between Yorùbá and Egyptian with the following series:
Yorùbá: Ogún “God of iron, war, hunting”
Yorùbá: ogún “war”
Yorùbá: akin “bravery, brave, valor”
Yorùbá: okun “strength”
Yorùbá: akoni “brave person, hero”
Egyptian: /qn/ "strong warrior" [Wb 5, 44.7-16; FCD 279]
Egyptian: /qn/ "strong, brave; capable" [Wb 5, 42.2-43.17]
Egyptian: /qn/ "to conquer" [Wb 5, 44.1-2; FCD 279]
Egyptian: /qnqn.nw/ “fight, battle” [Budge 772B]
Yorùbá: ológìnní “cat”
Yorùbá: ekun “tiger” (cat family);
Yorùbá: kìnníún “lion” (cat family)
Egyptian: /qn/ "strong lion" (a water spout shaped like a lion's head) [Wb 5, 47.14-15; vgl. Wilson, Ptol. Lexikon, 1062]
Yorùbá: gún “to pound” (pulverize)
Yorùbá: kàn "to hammer"
Egyptian: /qn/ "to beat" [Wb 5, 44.3-4]
Yorùbá: gún “finished"
Yorùbá: igun “angle, edge, extremes”; "product"; "grade 1"
Yorùbá: èkun "end, limits"
Yorùbá: okan “1” – integer
Egyptian: /qn/ "to complete; to finish" [Wb 5, 49.1-14; FCD 279; Wilson, Ptol. Lexikon 1062]
Egyptian: /qn/ "end; first quality" [Wb 5, 49.15-50.2; FCD 279]
Egyptian: /qnb.t/ "corner; angle" [Wb 5, 53.5-6]
Note that there is a /g/ and /k/ interchange in the C1 position in Yorùbá. Thus, the egúngún “masks, masquerades” > “ancestors” are derived meanings from the acts of “beating” that used to be prominent at the festivals. At the same time, it can also derive from egungun “bones” as in “bones of the ancestors.” Traditional societies often buried their dead in the homestead. If the family or clan moved, they would have to dig up the graves of their ancestors and bury them in the new location. All that is left of the ancestors are their “bones.” The two meanings “bones” and “to strike, beat” came together at the festival reserved to honor the ancestors and became both a concept and ritual act due to paronymy.
more coming
This is where the rub is actually.
If I did decide to practice the occult, Voodoo would be at the bottom of my list.
The Voodooist are even switching up a bit, and becoming smarter and more efficient in their practices. They are still behind IFA and Santeria as far following the seasons and proper protection practices. And still I would not go the IFA or Santeria route, I rather avoid spirits (i.e. "Ancestors") all together. Its pretty primitive.
Menelik II
I wanna see receipts!
as an adult you should be trying to reduce your superstitions not increase them. You should be trying to believe more things that are true not false.
Superstitions are bad ideas; whether they are ancient or from Africa, they're still bad ideas.
Superstitions are bad ideas; whether they are ancient or from Africa, they're still bad ideas.
Menelik II
I wanna see receipts!
another youtube of dudes in their basement? really? - i'll pass.
it's mysticism packaged in afrocentricity. Would you entertain this if it was created today in India or Germany?
If you think it just mysticism you in for a rude awakening breh. The latter part of your statement
However given that you didnt entertain the video. I wont bother entertaining none of your comments in this thread.
Menelik II
I wanna see receipts!
i don't accept anything unless there is evidence OR they understand the mechanics of the process. Voodoo fails at both.If you think it just mysticism you in for a rude awakening breh. The latter part of your statement
However given that you didnt entertain the video. I wont bother entertaining none of your comments in this thread.
given that i posted a video from a esteemed babalawo and you disregard it.i seriously doubt that breh.
later breh lol.
*and please refrain from quoting me any further, thanx*