What is with the push for emasculating men?

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

he does, hes basically a woman. look at how he posts and frames his arguments

I should be more of a man like you, and let my emotions get the best of me

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

It's nice to say that men should automatically do because they're men and it's the manly thing to do, but if they're being taught some other shyt(equality, sensitivity, womens empowerment) then it stands to reason that they're not going to just do. People think manhood is some automatic trigger, it's not. If a boy doesn't have it on his hard drive by the time he's 20, he's most likely never going to acquire it. My problem with the whole female empowerment movement is that women aren't building anything once they're in the position. Regardless of how many opportunities there are, there's some things I don't see women ever doing because they're women. Like firefighters. I can see how this creates a division of labor problem down the road when men wake up and decide they don't want to play their part. I think no one really wants to take on a dangerous onerous job if they don't have to.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

So are ya'll saying that you want to trade places with women?

This is analogous, almost verbatim, with the arguments white folks make about blacks. Look at Blacks, they got Affirmative action, BET, and all their comedians make fun of us, and we cant say anything back! Its so unfair! Its so PC. Its so unfair!!

Most of what ya'll are whining about is simply a slight push back from centuries of demeaning anti-woman stereotypes, and the inability to articulate, socially and professionally, in a male-dominated society of which the western world still is.

 

[Propaganda]

man, some of you guys are so damn frail it's pathetic. you try to come off all alpha and self-assured and shyt all over the board, then turn around and expose yourselves in threads like these...whining about all these imaginary, agenda-driven attacks on your masculinity.

grow the fukk up already.

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

So are ya'll saying that you want to trade place with women?

This is analogous, almost verbatim, with the arguments white folks make about blacks. Look at Blacks, they got Affirmative action, BET, and all their comedians make fun of us, and we cant say anything back! Its so unfair! Its so PC. Its so unfair!!

Most of what ya'll are whining about is simply a slight push back from centuries of demeaning anti-woman stereotypes, and the inability to articulate, socially and professionally, in a male-dominated society of which the western world still is.

I think if you are a true egalitarian, you're going to need a bit more flexibility in the roles. I personally don't care if women want to take on traditional male jobs, hell I welcome it and vice versa. I think it's better if everyone did what they wanted to but in truth it doesn't work out that way. Right now you're implying trading places with women is somehow a bad thing for a man to do, that it's not manly. Knowing this, why would any man be completely comfortable with role reversal? I think people are ok with women choosing whatever they want but still holding men to an old broken standard, that has to stop. Why? I think it's because men play an important role as builders and defenders. Yeah women work in office buildings but men build the office buildings.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

I think if you are a true egalitarian, you're going to need a bit more flexibility in the roles. I personally don't care if women want to take on traditional male jobs, hell I welcome it and vice versa. I think it's better if everyone did what they wanted to but in truth it doesn't work out that way. Right now you're implying trading places with women is somehow a bad thing for a man to do, that's it's not manly. Knowing this, why would any man be completely comfortable with role reversal? I think people are ok with women choosing whatever they want but still holding men to an old broken standard, that has to stop. Why? I think it's because men play an important role as builders and defenders. Yeah women work in office buildings but men build the office buildings.

Not sure how to read this, but it comes across like a thinly veiled defense of anti-woman discrimination.

Its almost as if you're saying that men are just flat out superior to women, and any and all attempts to redress the inequities that have controlled opportunity and economic distributions are simply anti-male handouts to the weaker sex. Again, thats ripped straight out of the racist playbook.

Of course there are measurable biological differences between men and women, which make pitch perfect egalitarianism overly idealistic but thats not the pulse of this thread --- this thread features non-stop whining from males, in a male-dominated and controlled society. Thats why I posed my first question.

 

[kevm3]

Yeah, skyrocketing divorce rates, illegitimacy rates, declining rates of marriage, 80% of federal inmates coming from single mother homes, but there's no 'facts in this thread'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/m...who-wants-to-wear-a-dress.html?pagewanted=all

What’s So Bad About a Boy Who Wants to Wear a Dress?

The night before Susan and Rob allowed their son to go to preschool in a dress, they sent an e-mail to parents of his classmates. Alex, they wrote, “has been gender-fluid for as long as we can remember, and at the moment he is equally passionate about and identified with soccer players and princesses, superheroes and ballerinas (not to mention lava and unicorns, dinosaurs and glitter rainbows).” They explained that Alex had recently become inconsolable about his parents’ ban on wearing dresses beyond dress-up time. After consulting their pediatrician, a psychologist and parents of other gender-nonconforming children, they concluded that “the important thing was to teach him not to be ashamed of who he feels he is.” Thus, the purple-pink-and-yellow-striped dress he would be wearing that next morning. For good measure, their e-mail included a link to information on gender-variant children.

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2012/10...ange-patient-wants-to-go-back-to-being-a-boy/

Britain's youngest sex-swap patient has decided she want to go back to being a boy – because she experiences too many mood swings as a girl.

Ria Cooper, 18, from Hull, has had thousands of pounds worth of NHS treatment involving hormonal injections to turn her from a boy into a girl.

But the hormones affected her so badly that she attempted suicide twice. Ria, formerly known as Brad, lives her life as a female.

She has developed breasts, wears her hair in a feminine bob and has dated several young men. But now she questions whether she was too young to be allowed to swap sexes in the first place.

"Life has really got on top of me recently," she told the Sunday Mirror.

"The hormones have made me feel up and down. One minute I feel moody and the next minute I feel really happy.

"A couple of months ago I'd had enough and took a lot of paracetamol but my friend found me and made me sick. Just before that, I'd tried to slash my wrists and ended up in hospital. I get these dark moods when nothing seems right.

"The night I tried to slash my wrists I d downed a bottle of Jack Daniel's and just thought about how alone I am, how my decision has alienated my family and how I will have to become a boy again to resolve it.
i
I don't want to live in isolation, away from everyone I love. This is the only way forward. I just want to be happy and this is my last chance.
i


From the age of 12, Ria was convinced she was a girl trapped in a boy's body, so when she was 15, she was referred to a psychologist at Hull Royal Infirmary and later to the Gender Identity Clinic in London.

She started hormone treatment when she was 17, making her the youngest ever patient in the UK to receive such treatment. But she says her decision has had disastrous consequences. She has fallen out with family, got into dangerous situations with men and even worked as a prostitute.

Apparently there's nothing wrong there though. We're all making this up.

 

[kevm3]

.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Yeah, skyrocketing divorce rates, illegitimacy rates, declining rates of marriage, 80% of federal inmates coming from single mother homes, but there's no 'facts in this thread'.

Once again this is marrying an internal drive to discriminate, with naked sociopolitical statistics and realities as a way to validate your discriminatory conclusions. This is the way racists operate. "Uh, uh, the marriage and legitimacy rates were much higher in da black community before the civil rights act". Why is it that men completely lose their agency and responsibility when the statistics are negative? Men arent contributing to those realities?

So whats your conclusion? Go back to the restrictive ways which socially chained women to the kitchen? And how are you going to selectively abstract a few videos, and try to create a progressive chain of being around them? Be real.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Once again this is marrying an internal drive to discriminate, with naked sociopolitical statistics and realities as a way to validate your discriminatory conclusions. This is the way racists operate. "Uh, uh, the marriage and legitimacy rates were much higher in da black community before the civil rights act". Why is it that men completely lose their agency and responsibility when the statistics are negative? Men arent contributing to those realities?

So whats your conclusion? Go back to the restrictive ways, which socially chained women to the kitchen? And how are you going to selectively abstract a few videos, and try to create a progressive chain of being around them? Be real.

Yeah it reminds me of Kevin Bacon's gay inmate character in JFK..."There's ******s running around everywhere asking for their damn rights. Why do you think we got so much crime now?"

 

[Dooby]

You say all this like being more intuitive and a better communicator has no bearing on the ability to reason when they're all interconnected.

To be honest majority of your post doesn't actually matter when its men out here that don't fit in any of the boxes neatly. There have been enough news stories put out there that deads any possibility of a lot of you using your wealth of processing power or rationalizing worth a shyt.

I don't care about winning. But you really stated that men are 'better' and I have yet to see any compelling argument that makes it so. High scores on math tests doesn't move me.

I'm not gonna waste my time trying to dumb it down for your less logical female brain let's just leave it at that, sugar t*ts

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

It's nice to say that men should automatically do because they're men and it's the manly thing to do, but if they're being taught some other shyt(equality, sensitivity, womens empowerment) then it stands to reason that they're not going to just do. People think manhood is some automatic trigger, it's not.

Of course not. But who's doing the teaching? What's more powerful to a kid than the example of manhood presented by his father? Who's doing the teaching?!?!? If a man is less of an influence on his kids than school, the media, "society", he's weak and failed in his fundamental duty as a father. Theres no other explanation... yall are making excuses for men's failures. Excuses are the hallmark of weakness

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

Not sure how to read this, but it comes across like a thinly veiled defense of anti-woman discrimination.

It's not.

Its almost as if you're saying that men are just flat out superior to women,

It's called reaching.

and any and all attempts to redress the inequities that have controlled opportunity and economic distributions are simply anti-male handouts to the weaker sex. Again, thats ripped straight out of the racist playbook.

I believe in true equality, the type of equality where everyone is held to the same standard regardless of sex, that means I'm a true egalitarian, I don't buy into the myth that men have a monopoly on privilege and that men only perpetuate oppressive structures, to say such a thing discredits women. Women have power. This election proved such a thing.

I think the truth is much more nuanced than what feminist theory portrays it to be. This quote sums up my thoughts on the matter

“Society was never a complex interaction of male nature and female nature, coexisting within different environments and generating different cultural norms based on the needs and benefits and requirements of both sexes. No, it was never that. It was just men wanting things the way they wanted them, and doing them that way for their own benefit.”"

The last sentence is tongue-in cheek but shes right. I think society is driven by our natures. Women have a different nature than men.The oppression lies in the adherence to the nature. The hardware isn't the problem, it's the software. We're running on outdated software.

Of course there are measurable biological differences between men and women, which make pitch perfect egalitarianism overly idealistic but thats not the pulse of this thread --- this thread features non-stop whining from males, in a male-dominated and controlled society. Thats why I posed my first question.

The men who are whining in this thread, are they the same men who control society? What do we have in common with them apart from sharing the same sex? not much I imagine. It's a tokenism argument. All men are not the same. There are a lot of men who hate men and are biased in favor of women, some are even elected officials I hear.

I absolutely agree with Bill Maher on his assessment.

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

Of course not. But who's doing the teaching? What's more powerful to a kid than the example of manhood presented by his father? Who's doing the teaching?!?!? If a man is less of an influence on his kids than school, the media, "society", he's weak and failed in his fundamental duty as a father. Theres no other explanation... yall are making excuses for men's failures. Excuses are the hallmark of weakness

Is manhood important though? If you believe manhood is the source of womens problem, then obviously it's not worth keeping around. Society needs to decide whether they want men to be men or not. I'm just tired of all the shaming that comes across with just being a man. Sometimes. I don't want to be man, I just want to be a human being. Being a gender is so burdensome.

 

[kevm3]

Once again this is marrying an internal drive to discriminate, with naked sociopolitical statistics and realities as a way to validate your discriminatory conclusions. This is the way racists operate. "Uh, uh, the marriage and legitimacy rates were much higher in da black community before the civil rights act". Why is it that men completely lose their agency and responsibility when the statistics are negative? Men arent contributing to those realities?

So whats your conclusion? Go back to the restrictive ways which socially chained women to the kitchen? And how are you going to selectively abstract a few videos, and try to create a progressive chain of being around them? Be real.

Who in here is arguing against females having right to employment, being paid fairly, and the right to vote? We're talking about the agenda to emasculate men and removing men from the family structure. That has NOTHING to do with women to live in a society that treats them fairly.

Why is the black struggle ALWAYS brought up and conveniently used? It's funny how women are supposedly this highly discriminated group in society that men are oppressing... you mean the same women that can send a man to jail if he doesn't have the means to pay outlandish amounts of child support? Women who don't face equal consequences as men? Women who can hit, punch and spit on men and yet have HIM be taken away by the cops? Women automatically awarded custody of the kids in the vast majority of cases without any consideration of who is truly the more responsible. Women allowed to live well off the backs of their 'starter husbands' via divorce proceedings, alimony and chlid support? How about men being forced to pay child support for a kid that is proven not to be his biologically? Do women have to worry about a draft if a war broke out? Of losing their limbs on the front line? But yeah, that's similar to the black struggle of working up to sundown, having to eat disgusting scraps, being whipped and routinely degraded.

Who is absolving men of any responsibility? Men have a CRITICAL role in raising the family and ensuring the success of the children... and yet there are ACTIVE policies contributing to the dissolution of the family structure such as no-fault divorces for one. Guess who initiates the majority of divorces. Ever heard of the term 'starter-husband'?