What is the Chinese Game Plan for Africa?

[theworldismine13]

I already provided examples on how socializing an entire country would work.




As I said, a country with a wealthy majority is rare and an uneasy task. There are 9.2 millionaires in america which has 300 million people. Only 3% of Americans are millionaires
Nigeria is not currently set up to feed a nation of 300 million. The net of 90 billion USD goes to a government budget/agenda. Communism might open up the net of 90 billion USD to everyone. Running a country like a business, were citizens are shareholders might open it up to everyone

i hate to be the one the break the news to you, but communism has proven to be a failure in every country where its been tried

and you are just throwing out numbers that sound big without doing simple math

90 billion dollars/ 300 million people = $300 per person

so under your system, every nigerian would get less than a dollar a day from oil

if nigeria got 10x more money from its resources lets say 900 billion, that would amount to 10 dollars per day for each nigerian

so again, a country cannot get wealthy just from mineral resources, the math is simply not there

you understand what I am saying, lets not play dumb around here. As I said in the previous post, a myriad of diversified business venture could feed a nation. Royality payments to locals (Which is done in Alaska). State/country sponsored businesses which existed in Libya/North Korea, etc. Diversified means owning a porfolio of businesses. Maybe a company/ elite group needs to generate 1 billion trillion dollars or more, heck if 400 global ultra rich folks from various business are worth 1.3 trillions USD...there really is no a limit, if its just money to gain. of course the minerals business is part of it, whoe else is turning minerals into a commodity besides de beers ceo and cronies, and several small companies, not many people, its an untapped marketed. Also de beers goes into equity deals with african countries, so african countries are eating off of de beers and other business ventures.

LOL at using libya and north korea as examples, libya and north korea represent examples of what not to do, im not totally against government being involved in business but if the government is dominating the economy then that is a recipe for failure

fundamentally the economy has to be based on individual freedom and economic freedom, and when the government is too involved in business, that restricts economic freedom

you dont make sense. A smart business person would take $100 billion USD from the mineral business and combine it with over ventures or turn it into more money. As of 2008, 46.4 percent of energy in Japan is produced from petroleum, 21.4 percent from coal, 16.7 percent from natural gas, 9.7 percent from nuclear power, and 2.9 percent from hydropower. what are you talking about Japan has natural and synthesized energy. Africa could build their own/enhance their businesses and resources.

japan has no significant natural resources, it has no coal, oil, or natural gas resources, those are things that japan buys from the open market, like i told you, mineral resources are commodities like orange juice, if you want some you just go out and buy it in the open market, that is what the japanese do

japan is rich because they have a highly educated population that can take pennies worth of raw materials from africans and turn them into electronics like playstation and sell it to africans for hundreds of dollars

my point is that africa needs to focus on manufacturing, industrialization and developing new technologies, that is the key to wealth, NOT mineral resources

blacks is and could be successful, wherever, blacks success is not limited to Carribean, those areas are also sole tourist business zones.
haiti challenges are not solely from literacy. ever since the haitian revolution, the west, stopped messing with haiti, because haiti wanted to be independent and violently fought off the french

dont manipulate my words please, im simply making an observation that the most successful black nations are in the caribbean

haiti's challenges are not solely from literacy, but what i am saying the lack of literacy is part of the reason haiti has not developed compared with other caribbean islands and its also part of the reason it hasnt been able to fight economic attacks

The tests are usually based on whether they could read/write english, or the national language. according to your math, the country with "50%" literacy (with another "50%" to go) would do doing so good because those who could read/write mere English/national language, so they should be will be sooooooooo financially welllllllllllll off.

i dont know what test you are talking about, there is no test, those stats come from asking people whether they can read and write or not

Africa does shows improvement maybe it was 50% in 1990s, but its climbed to 66% literacy. So now 66% who are literate, should be doing really really good lol

all literacy does is put you in the game, so to speak, the point is not that literacy will bring you wealth, the point is if you are not literate you cant even play in the game and you can't compete, that goes for the individual and the nation

if a country doesnt have 90% literacy its not even in the game

lol, are you serious? what were the egyptians writing about in 600 AD, hieroglyphs, all those pharaohs and tombs and archive were hieroglyphs and variations. These developed later into forms known as Hieratic and Demotic. Still later in ancient history, this system was adapted to the Meroitic script in the upper Nile valley. The african oral and written languages have progressed. There are african languages documented to the 1st century.

how many people in africa read, write heiroglyphs and heriatic? about zero, its an ancient language, its not taught in schools to children

there are some african languages that have been converted to latin or arabic script but there arent really any native african languages with native african script except for ancient egypt

the only reason i point that it out is to explain why there is high illiteracy in the first place, but in the end it doesnt really matter what language people read and write in as long as you are reading and and writing

are you dense? not everyone in Africa cant read/write. If you can read and write, why arent you getting all the of jobs and opportunity? African need to do for self. Also they have been successes found by those who are passionate about an idea inspite of the educational backgrounds. There are also economies for menial labor. Not everyone who could read, write is creating successful businesses, it might be easier, but I wont count the local out. why wont big businesses hire all of the 66% which is approximately 850 million who could read/write? Its not because of literacy. Anyways, Africa gotta build big businesses.

i wasnt trying to suggest that learning how to read and write automatically gets you a job, what i said is that having a high illiteracy makes it hard to develop a country, and its one the reasons why its hard to build advanced industries in africa, im not sure what is so hard to understand about that

you think people who cant read/write english/national language are really idling around? what are you reading western survey? if you so inclined about literacy go over there and teach courses. if you are smart, maybe you could turn it into a business...whats that millions who cant read/write, maybe you could teach them and create a business model for them to enhance their lives lol....go save them. Seriously, this is not a bad idea...one could present some solutions to government or ngos. I doubt 170 million illiterate really don't know how to function. Folk from the trailer parks or backwards hoods, dont get jobs or find work? Only illiterates are unemployed? All literates are working?

i think exactly what i just said, why are you putting words in my mouth?

what i said is that literacy is important because it allows you to communicate, allows you to educate yourself and makes you more productive

what i am saying is just obvious, you are putting words in my mouth and then arguing with the words you put in my mouth, which i dont appreciate

literacy is important, it allows you to communicate, educate yourself and improve your productivity, thats all i said, i have no idea why you are arguing against an obvious statement

they find a community to show them. do you know only 50% in america are actually registered to vote. they says 90% of communication is non verbal...common sense cant be taught, its innate...one thing the illiterate should not be, is marginalized, bring them into the community if they are outside of the community, most of illiteracy are language barriers and schooling, but that is not a requirement for success. If they have a challenges they could be inventive. Use pictures to teach them, they are not stupid. How do foreign country assemble cars designed in the united states? Or design phones in the united states? One teaches them in the process or language they know. Do the 66% / 850 million literate Africans have access to similar factories created in China? illiteracy is an excuse if business don't want to make money in Africa.

im not sure what your point is, the whole entire point of my bringing up the illiteracy rate is not to marginalize people, its to point out that we need to eliminate illiteracy in africa, im down with anything that reduces illiteracy

A multiple tiered approach is ideal. Work on improving literacy in attention to the list of goals to improve the country.

So they cant read/write, what are the plans? teach them how to read/write, well, see how the plan could implemented. Implement it, or get it, into the hands of those who can. Now what, they could read/write and want more. Give them books. Tell them about their history. Get them into a schooling system, if they dont already have their own community and support systems. Bring them into the national foray of doing things. The labor force/tax base would increase, feed their "hungers". Dont let them forget their original language. Teach them a universal language but dont sell their soul. Let them know another langues but financial benefit from it to.

All of such goes on, while still focused on the master plan of improving the country.

whatever reduces illiteracy is good but like i said, the whole point of me bringing up illiteracy is that we need to address it if we want africa to develop because you cannot develop an illiterate country and mineral wealth does not provide enough wealth to make people rich

IMO the mineral wealth should be focused on education, because the real wealth of a country lies in the individual, so once you develop an educated individual that person can develop themselves and the country in turn

i would strongly with this notion that minerals will make africa wealthy

education, individual freedom, economic freedom and industrialization is what will make africa wealthy

 

[NZA]

1. africa is not ready for a union. the worst countries will cripple the ones with potential. on the micro-scale, this is the same phenomenon that cripples black americans who earn more income than the average white person but are incapable of accumulating comparable wealth because they are too closely tied to poor people in a multitude of ways. (that is a topic for another thread, though)

2. china is not a charity, look at how they treat their own people. just make smart deals, and know that africa is not really in the driver's seat, so all deals will kinda suck for now.

3. african countries need intense infrastructure investment. if they have to get it from chinese people, fine. schools, roads, utilities, police, hospitals, etc. all need to be strengthened fairly quickly for more industrial labor to show up.

4. natural resources are not enough, especially when you dont even have the capability to mine them yourself. the guy with all the equipment and expertise takes the lion's share of the profits.

5. because africa didnt colonize others, they have no get rich quick paths to afluence in the 21st century. they have to play the same game china and india are playing. get your peasants up to decent reading and math standards, have dependable electricty, water, and transportation for not only workers but massive amounts of product, compensate supervisors and managers of your sweatshops to create a sizable middleclass, and then when you get your weight up, show up at the shores of a country worse off than your own with some deals that benefit you more than them

6. and yes, if blacks from outside africa were to go back and help, that would be a significant boost to africa's overall outlook. of course, there has to be a certain amount of financial incentive for the people migrating there, but as long as they also have some benevolence in their heart for africa and make sure that their dealings are mutually beneficial, it is a great thing.

whenever i need to get somebody a gift, i always get them wine from this site

Heritage Link Brands - An Invitation to Taste the Best of Africa

black american owned distributor of black african owned wineries. they turn a profit but also help africans, and not as in helping with charity, but in helping african businesses become more profitable and marketable outside africa.

 

[Mr Uncle Leroy]

i hate to be the one the break the news to you, but communism has proven to be a failure in every country where its been tried

and you are just throwing out numbers that sound big without doing simple math

90 billion dollars/ 300 million people = $300 per person

so under your system, every nigerian would get less than a dollar a day from oil

if nigeria got 10x more money from its resources lets say 900 billion, that would amount to 10 dollars per day for each nigerian

so again, a country cannot get wealthy just from mineral resources, the math is simply not there

the number I threw a billion trillion. you said and started with 90 billion USD for 300 million. You are suggesting the government
share every dollar with the locals. I also mention net, because 90 billion is most like gross, after finance/budget maybe the government has
50% of that, but then an amount would need to be allocated IF IF the money is supposed to be shared. The way citizens benefit of such monies is
through taxes and building of infrastructure, government jobs, etc. Nigeria doing well with 90 billion dollars are you suggesting a country does not explore it mineral
and natural resources? do you have 90 billion to give a country? Even if a country is run like business, the citizen would still have to invest (time
or money to receive some sort of shares. A could has not explore how it could be beneficial. I would rather an exploratory company
tell me they want to explore my country for mineral resources and give me government 50% of what they make, and create jobs, schools, etc as result
of such partnership. Your all or nothing approach does not work. I will take $50 billion potential of exploring a new business, than nothing at all.

LOL at using libya and north korea as examples, libya and north korea represent examples of what not to do, im not totally against government being involved in business but if the government is dominating the economy then that is a recipe for failure

fundamentally the economy has to be based on individual freedom and economic freedom, and when the government is too involved in business, that restricts economic freedom

oh now you coming around ||, its going to nearly challenging and impossible to make an entire country citizen wealthy without hard work, but
other countries have tried.

japan has no significant natural resources, it has no coal, oil, or natural gas resources, those are things that japan buys from the open market, like i told you, mineral resources are commodities like orange juice, if you want some you just go out and buy it in the open market, that is what the japanese do

japan is rich because they have a highly educated population that can take pennies worth of raw materials from africans and turn them into electronics like playstation and sell it to africans for hundreds of dollars

my point is that africa needs to focus on manufacturing, industrialization and developing new technologies, that is the key to wealth, NOT mineral resources

Until 2012, Japan was thought to have no significant mineral resources. However, in September 2012, it was revealed that a large deposit of rare earth minerals - about 6.8 million tonnes - had been found sitting under the seabed near a far eastern Japanese island and within Japan's exclusive economic zone. The deposit of valuable minerals, used in electric cars, iPods, powerful magnets, batteries, LED lights, lasers, wind turbines and missiles, is believed to be enough to supply Japan's hi-tech industry for 200 years, and includes the rare mineral dysprosium, which is used in the engines of hybrid cars

dont manipulate my words please, im simply making an observation that the most successful black nations are in the caribbean

haiti's challenges are not solely from literacy, but what i am saying the lack of literacy is part of the reason haiti has not developed compared with other caribbean islands and its also part of the reason it hasnt been able to fight economic attacks

let all blacks countries do well, but most successful blacks countries are in Africa and Caribbean

i dont know what test you are talking about, there is no test, those stats come from asking people whether they can read and write or not

yeah, well some of those tests are specific to English/national languages, they don't count the indigenous languages

all literacy does is put you in the game, so to speak, the point is not that literacy will bring you wealth, the point is if you are not literate you cant even play in the game and you can't compete, that goes for the individual and the nation

if a country doesn't have 90% literacy its not even in the game

well there should be effort to get to better literacy rates, but all the same the really should be a master plan to bring multiple, varying industries to a country.

high illiteracy makes it hard to develop a country,

could be an advantage to a country, but literacy is not perquisite for success for a company. there are a lot literate Africans, there is not prerequisite the should care about building or industrializing, although it would benefit them down the line. a few pioneers get ideas in their heads and figure things out and make things work. your assumption is those who are not literate are incompetent not contributing to the society, but such thing is flawed, yeah there is benefit to increased literacy % and there should be a plan to increase literacy
but would not make a country always successful. the people who are literate really need to be ones bringing in industries, etc...

Minerals and any form of money generating ideas, where there is profit or potential for a profit will benefit any country. You cannot marginalize what African countries do to bring in money, on a bigger spectrum, such countries need to have varieties of businesses. Minerals, Electrical, Water, Gas, Timber, Agriculture, Consulting, Manufacturing, etc would all benefit a country. Education is important.

 

[TTT]

Some corrections here, Nigeria does not have a population of 300 million and the last i checked it was said to be around 150-160million. It however does not distract from the point that they can never have the same standard of living depending on oil as the Gulf Arab countries. They have a higher population than the gulf combined while pumping less oil per day than the Saudis. Their Federal government is reliant on oil money but i believe as a percentage of their GDP it is not as large.

Unions wont ever work the way people like Gadaffi dreamed about. Anyone who has stayed in the continent for even a month can tell you that it is such an unfeasible idea that is not within the realm of posssibility. The trend has actually been countries being carved out of existing ones like South Sudan instead of the opposite.The Guardian actually had an infographic that showed how the map of Africa changed over time with an increment in the number of countries (I believe the AU agreed at formation that countries shouldnt try to redraw their borders). The British had a Federal system of Rhodesia (Zimbabwe,Zambia, Malawi) and that could not last beyond 10 years.

What has worked or been implemented are regional trade blocs, most of SSA countries are part of one bloc or the other. The strongest to me are the East African bloc which seems to be the most serious about integration, SADC for Southern Africa and ECOWAS for West African states. Economic integration seems to be one strategy being used in East Africa to broaden the consumer market and also the deals countries have been signing with China for infrastructure building for the most part.

 

[gho3st]

there's no rare earth African cartel, that's the difference. If the African nations got together, they could set fixed prices on everything and at the rest of the globe. Then demand for manufacturing to be done in Africa But politicians would rather get rich

Why you think Gthaadzdafhhi got deaded??

I dont know a great deal about Africa.

But from an outsider looking in, they need better leadership. If they had stronger leadership, they could probably better utilize the things they do have going for them in order to prosper. Commodities and tourism...they could eventually possibly become a manufacturing hub for those commodities.

Despite him being an a$$hole...i think kqhqhadffphi and mandela could have spurred this movement. I honestly dont know who could do it now...outside forces can just exploit africa in its current fractured state because there is no leadership. Whats a little ethnic tension if your raking in billions, ya knameen!

there will always be wars in Africa.

 

[theworldismine13]

the number I threw a billion trillion.

where did you come up with this number? sounds like you are pulling it out of your ass

you said and started with 90 billion USD for 300 million.

yeah the 90 billion came from a link that i posted that showed the oil revenue from various countries and for nigeria it was 90 billion

you mentioned something about some communist idea of forming a corporation and sharing the wealth, my point is that even if you shared the wealth in a communist way nigerians would still be for poor even if you took the number to 900 billion

You are suggesting the government
share every dollar with the locals.

thats was your suggestion not mines, my suggestion is that the education level of a country is a better measurement of wealth than mineral wealth

the human mind is the ultimate resource, mineral wealth are just commodities with temporary and fluctuating values, that is why a country like japan can become wealthy with zero natural resources

I also mention net, because 90 billion is most like gross, after finance/budget maybe the government has
50% of that, but then an amount would need to be allocated IF IF the money is supposed to be shared. The way citizens benefit of such monies is
through taxes and building of infrastructure, government jobs, etc. Nigeria doing well with 90 billion dollars are you suggesting a country does not explore it mineral

i think nigeria should squeeze every penny from its mineral wealth, but real wealth comes from an educated population and industrialization, not from mineral wealth

nigeria is not doing well, nigeria is doing bad, for nigeria to have a good infrastructure it would take a few hundred billion dollars, way more money then it gets from oil

do you have 90 billion to give a country? Even if a country is run like business, the citizen would still have to invest (time
or money to receive some sort of shares. A could has not explore how it could be beneficial. I would rather an exploratory company
tell me they want to explore my country for mineral resources and give me government 50% of what they make, and create jobs, schools, etc as result
of such partnership. Your all or nothing approach does not work. I will take $50 billion potential of exploring a new business, than nothing at all.

your suggestions require an educated population which nigeria does not have, that is the point you are not understanding, you cant simply gloss over the fact that half of nigerians cant read

oh now you coming around ||, its going to nearly challenging and impossible to make an entire country citizen wealthy without hard work, but
other countries have tried.

i dont understand what you are saying here

Until 2012, Japan was thought to have no significant mineral resources. However, in September 2012, it was revealed that a large deposit of rare earth minerals - about 6.8 million tonnes - had been found sitting under the seabed near a far eastern Japanese island and within Japan's exclusive economic zone. The deposit of valuable minerals, used in electric cars, iPods, powerful magnets, batteries, LED lights, lasers, wind turbines and missiles, is believed to be enough to supply Japan's hi-tech industry for 200 years, and includes the rare mineral dysprosium, which is used in the engines of hybrid cars

im not sure what your point is, japan has been a powerhouse for 100 years, what would a discovery in 2012 have to do with anything? japan did not become rich in 2012

japanese wealth started when they started to industrialize after the meiji industrialization Meiji Restoration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this industrialization process has never happened in africa, that is the main reason africa is poor

let all blacks countries do well, but most successful blacks countries are in Africa and Caribbean

the black countries in the Caribbean are more successful in in just about any measure, im asserting the reason for that is that since they are so small its easier to educate the small population, which allows it to develop faster

yeah, well some of those tests are specific to English/national languages, they don't count the indigenous languages

like i told you there are no tests, those are polls, literacy means you are able to read and write, they simply ask people whether they can read or write

most indigenous languages in africa are not written languages so they have nothing to do with literacy

could be an advantage to a country, but literacy is not perquisite for success for a company.

could be?????? you think having a population that can read and write COULD BE an advantage?

i wouldnt say language is a prerequisite, its more of a chicken and egg problem, the problem is that a lot of africans live in situations where reading is not required day to day, and then there arent enough jobs for the people that do read and write

but having literate population is the foundation of industrialization, africa is lacking that therefore industrialization is way harder

there are a lot literate Africans,

again even if you take your figure of 66% that still leaves a huge illiterate population, its not the number its the percentage of people that can read and write that is important

your assumption is those who are not literate are incompetent not contributing to the society, but such thing is flawed, yeah there is benefit to increased literacy % and there should be a plan to increase literacy
but would not make a country always successful. the people who are literate really need to be ones bringing in industries, etc...

my assumption is that those who are not literate can contribute MORE if they are literate, not that they cant contribute

so again for the second time, i would politely request that you stop putting words in my mouth

the human mind is the ultimate resource, a human mind that does not know how to read and write means the ultimate resource is not being used to its full extent

i was not marginalizing people that cant read and write, i was saying we need to focus on fixing the problem, and i was saying that is even more important than mineral wealth in terms of developing a country and that any mineral wealth should be focused on that

you think you are doing people that cant read and write a favor by saying they dont need to learn how to read and write? or by saying that reading and writing is not important?

Minerals and any form of money generating ideas, where there is profit or potential for a profit will benefit any country. You cannot marginalize what African countries do to bring in money, on a bigger spectrum, such countries need to have varieties of businesses. Minerals, Electrical, Water, Gas, Timber, Agriculture, Consulting, Manufacturing, etc would all benefit a country. Education is important.

whatever it is you are saying, it cannot happen unless you eliminate illiteracy and have enough people with advanced degrees

mineral wealth is not the key to wealth, the key to wealth is developing the human mind, and you do that by focusing on individual freedom, economic freedom and education (obviously), that creates the foundation for industrialization and for using mineral resources effectively

 

[theworldismine13]

and please stop with the ghadaffi bullshyt, any black person that looks at the chinese or an arab as their savior is stupid, not even african leaders were dumb enough to follow an arab, that is why his ideas went nowhere

there is no outside superman coming to save africans, the superman is us

 

[theworldismine13]

What has worked or been implemented are regional trade blocs, most of SSA countries are part of one bloc or the other. The strongest to me are the East African bloc which seems to be the most serious about integration, SADC for Southern Africa and ECOWAS for West African states. Economic integration seems to be one strategy being used in East Africa to broaden the consumer market and also the deals countries have been signing with China for infrastructure building for the most part.

yeah

For Better Trade, Africa Needs To Quit The Paper-Pushing: UN Report

if you ignore the corny dude in this video, it shows how borders in africa hold back economic development

 

[thatrapsfan]

Very interesting article I recently read:

How Africa's new urban centers are shifting its old colonial borders:

How Africa's New Urban Centers Are Shifting Its Old Colonial Boundaries - Howard W. French - The Atlantic Cities