What is the apex land predator/animal? Who'd come out on top

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Yes, I agree. Emotions are rooted in biology.

What I said is that our "nature" has changed.

When we were out there killing animals with rocks, spears and blunt objects sympathy and empathy for the animals suffering was probably close to non-existent.

Okay. I think this more just has to do with the semantics of the word "nature" then. Today, living in our comfortable homes and having our ethics-based social systems in place, we are more sympathetic to the suffering of animals. As hunter-gatherers less so because of the conditions and necessities that arise from them.

I just wanted to make it clear that empathy is innate trait in us (most of us anyway) as well as some dolphins, elephants, chimpanzees, dogs, etc. (not that a capacity for cruelty and violence isn't as well obviously). Even though man 10,000 years ago probably could give two shyts about animal suffering, I'm sure even then if a child saw a boar get torn apart by a tiger while it screamed, the child would cry and feel anguish.

 

[Type Username Here]

it's not about that. I'm just annoyed that I had to defend the way we slaughter goats in like 30 seconds to you and 18 months later you pop up saying "has anyone of you ever looked an animal you ate in the eye" it makes me suspicious of your epiphanies

Bro, A bolt to the back of the brain stem is much quicker than letting an animal bleed out. The science has shown us this to be true. Don't argue with me, argue with the science community.

I think in the final analysis we can accept that raising free range animals and killing them by slitting their throats in under a minute is way better than whatever these factory farmers do making creatures live hellish lifes and making their deaths quite unpleasant as well. whether they finally die in 5 seconds from a bolt or 40 seconds isn't that big a difference to the animal as the rest of their lives and in death whether they're killed with care or just strung up on a line with hundreds of others and killed in a mechanized horrid state

Why can't we have both? Why can't animals be raised well and be killed in the most humane way possible? I personally buy my meat from places where these animals can have a full life. Of course, at times when I go out to eat outside of my home it isn't my decision, but at home that is what we do.

If you know me, you know I'm against this systematic farming and livestock raising we do here. Why? Because science has shown this leads to many problems and an unhealthy life for the animals.

 

[Type Username Here]

Okay. I think this more just has to do with the semantics of the word "nature" then. Today, living in our comfortable homes and having our ethics-based social systems in place, we are more sympathetic to the suffering of animals. As hunter-gatherers less so because of the conditions and necessities that arise from them.

This is what meant. I apologize if I wasn't clear.

This is why I used natural in quotes.

Everything is natural, even artificial things.

 

[zerozero]

Bro, A bolt to the back of the brain stem is much quicker than letting an animal bleed out. The science has shown us this to be true. Don't argue with me, argue with the science community.

my brother. you are sticking explosive metal and arrow tips into animals and then talking about bolts. when your bullet hits the deer's head does it not even twitch? is that thing just dropping like a rock?

Why can't we have both? Why can't animals be raised well and be killed in the most humane way possible?

Sure but like I said, given the situation on our hands, whether the animal dies from halal/kosher is not banworthy before we get to all the other stuff. Like tearing beaks off of chickens and not letting cattle walk. Especially given that it means a lot of people will have to stop eating the animals at all while the non-jewish/non-muslim observers still get to eat whatever they want that was raised and killed magnitudes of times more cruelly

 

[Type Username Here]

my brother. you are sticking explosive metal and arrow tips into animals and then talking about bolts. when your bullet hits the deer's head does it not even twitch? is that thing just dropping like a rock?

In all honesty, I have never seen any of the deer I have shot squirm or suffer. But you do make a point and it seems I was being some what hypocritical just because the other case involved a religious mandate.

Sure but like I said, given the situation on our hands, whether the animal dies from halal/kosher is not banworthy before we get to all the other stuff. Like tearing beaks off of chickens and not letting cattle walk. Especially given that it means a lot of people will have to stop eating the animals at all while the non-jewish/non-muslim observers still get to eat whatever they want that was raised and killed magnitudes of times more cruell

Good point.

 

[The Real]

Halal killing is needlessly cruel, but current factory farming is even worse. Ideally, neither scenario should exist.

 

[Type Username Here]

This also might seem hypocritical, but I also enjoyed both times I have been involved in the Eid ceremony involving the slaughter. Is it Eid? I forget.

Also, when I was a youngin back in the old country, my grandparents would buy live chickens and my grandfather wold cut their heads off in front of me and I would watch the chicken move around. That shyt was crazy.

 

[zerozero]

also reading the posts I guess I mixed a couple issues; the reason I've been close to an animal and fed it and looked it in its eye before it was slaughtered is not cause of throat-cutting per se but because of eid. so throat-cutting vs non-throat-cutting and seeing the animal you're eating vs not having seen it are independent aspects that can be mixed and matched

 

[Skooby]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ-xqQmxK80"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ-xqQmxK80[/ame]