What a Women's Right to Choose really means.

Fillerguy

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Defending the alternative all but endorses turning a woman's body part a Ward of the state. I shouldn't have explain why allowing the government (the collective citizens) to have complete dominion over parts of our bodies is a terrible idea.

Plus baby killing is a widely acceptable practice in the Bible.
 

Domingo Halliburton

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some dude (religious nut) displays a bunch of aborted fetus signs outside the street where I drive past to work...claiming Obama is the anti Christ because he's pro-choice. You never seen something like that?.



is that just the city I live in? I've seen these extremists in a few cities. Or do we have a bunch Midwesterns in here clutching their pearls not realizing how the world works?
 

kevm3

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http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41154527/...urts/t/house-horrors-alleged-abortion-clinic/

A doctor whose abortion clinic was a filthy, foul-smelling "house of horrors" that was overlooked by regulators for years was charged Wednesday with murder, accused of delivering seven babies alive and then using scissors to kill them.

Hundreds of other babies likely died in the squalid clinic that Dr. Kermit Gosnell ran from 1979 to 2010, Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams said at a news conference.

"My comprehension of the English language can't adequately describe the barbaric nature of Dr. Gosnell," he added.

Williams said he might seek the death penalty for Gosnell, who with nine of his associates, including his wife, was arrested on Wednesday.


Gosnell was charged with murder, infanticide, conspiracy, abortion at 24 or more weeks and other charges.
Pennsylvania law prohibits abortion after 24 weeks except to save the life of the mother or avoid serious health risk to her.

In a nearly 300-page grand jury report filled with ghastly, stomach-turning detail, prosecutors said Pennsylvania regulators ignored complaints of barbaric conditions at Gosnell's clinic, which catered to poor, immigrant and minority women in the city's impoverished West Philadelphia section.

Prosecutors called the gruesome case a "complete regulatory collapse."

"Pennsylvania is not a third-world country," the district attorney's office declared in the report. "There were several oversight agencies that stumbled upon and should have shut down Kermit Gosnell long ago."




Philadelphia District Attorney's Office via AP
Patients at the Women's Medical Society in Philadelphia were taken to procedure rooms like this one.
Gosnell, 69, was arrested and charged with eight counts of murder altogether in the alleged killings of seven babies and the death of a woman from an overdose of painkillers. Nine of Gosnell's employees — including his wife, a cosmetologist — also were charged.

Prosecutors said Gosnell made millions of dollars over three decades performing thousands of dangerous abortions, many of them illegal late-term procedures. His clinic had no trained nurses or medical staff other than Gosnell, a family physician not certified in obstetrics or gynecology, prosecutors said.

At least two women died from the procedures, while scores more were injured from perforated bowels, cervixes and uteruses, authorities said.

In a typical late-term abortion, the fetus is dismembered in the uterus and then removed in pieces. That is more common than the procedure opponents call "partial-birth abortion," in which the fetus is only partially extracted before being destroyed. Prosecutors said Gosnell instead delivered many of the babies alive.

He "induced labor, forced the live birth of viable babies in the sixth, seventh, eighth month of pregnancy and then killed those babies by cutting into the back of the neck with scissors and severing their spinal cord," District Attorney Seth Williams said.

Gosnell referred to the practice as "snipping," prosecutors said.

Prosecutors estimated Gosnell ended hundreds of pregnancies by cutting the spinal cords, but they said couldn't prosecute more cases because he destroyed files.

"These killings became so routine that no one could put an exact number on them," the grand jury report said. "They were considered 'standard procedure.'"

Defense attorney William J. Brennan, who represented Gosnell during the investigation, said: "Obviously, these allegations are very, very serious."

Authorities raided Gosnell's clinic early last year in search of controlled drug violations and stumbled upon "a house of horrors," Williams said. Bags and bottles holding aborted fetuses "were scattered throughout the building," the district attorney said. "There were jars, lining shelves, with severed feet that he kept for no medical purpose."

Prosecutors said the place reeked of cat urine because of the animals that were allowed to roam freely, instruments were not properly sterilized, and disposable medical supplied were used over and over.

Gosnell didn't advertise, but word got around. Women came from across the city, state and region for illegal late-term abortions, authorities said. They paid $325 for first-trimester abortions and $1,600 to $3,000 for abortions up to 30 weeks. The clinic took in $10,000 to $15,000 a day, authorities said.

"People knew near and far that if you needed a late-term abortion you could go see Dr. Gosnell," Williams said.

White women from the suburbs were ushered into a separate, slightly cleaner area because Gosnell believed they were more likely to file complaints, Williams said.

Few if any of the unconscious patients knew their babies had been born alive and then killed, prosecutors said. Many were first-time mothers who were told they were 24 weeks pregnant, even if they were much further along, authorities said.

Prosecutors said Gosnell falsified the ultrasound examinations that determine how far along a pregnancy is, teaching his staff to hold the probe in such a way that the fetus would look smaller.

Gosnell sometimes joked about the babies, saying one was so large he could "walk me to the bus stop," according to the report.

State regulators ignored complaints about Gosnell and the 46 lawsuits filed against him, and made just five annual inspections, most satisfactory, since the clinic opened in 1979. The inspections stopped completely in 1993 because of what prosecutors said was the pro-abortion rights attitude that set in after Democratic Gov. Robert Casey, an abortion foe, left office.

Williams accused the state Health Department officials of "utter disregard" for the safety of women undergoing abortion, and said the testimony of agency officials "enraged" the grand jury. But he said he could find no criminal offenses with which they could be charged, in part because too much time has elapsed.

"These officials were far more protective of themselves when they testified before the grand jury. Even (Health Department) lawyers, including the chief counsel, brought private attorneys with them — presumably at government expense," the report said.

The state's reluctance to investigate, under several administrations, may stem partly from the sensitivity of the abortion debate, Williams said. Nonetheless, he called Gosnell's case a clear case of murder.

"A doctor who with scissors cuts into the necks, severing the spinal cords of living, breathing babies who would survive with proper medical attention commits murder under the law," he said. "Regardless of one's feelings about abortion, whatever one's beliefs, that is the law."

Four clinic employees were also charged with murder, and five more, including Gosnell's wife, Pearl, with conspiracy, drug and other crimes. All were in custody. Gosnell's wife performed extremely late-term abortions on Sundays, the report said.

One of the murder charges against Gosnell involves a woman seeking an abortion, Karnamaya Mongar, who authorities said died in 2009 because she was given too much of the painkiller Demerol and other drugs.

Gosnell wasn't at the clinic at the time. His staff administered the drugs repeatedly as they waited for him to arrive at night, as was his custom, the grand jury found.


Mongar and her husband, Ash, had fled their native Bhutan and spent nearly 20 years in camps in Nepal. They had three children. A man who answered the phone Wednesday at a listing for Ash Mongar in Virginia did not speak English, while their daughter did not immediately return a message
The malpractice suits filed against Gosnell include one over the death of a 22-year-old Philadelphia woman, a mother of two, who died of a bloodstream infection and a perforated uterus in 2000. Gosnell sometimes sewed up such injuries without telling the women about the complications, prosecutors said.

Gosnell earned his medical degree from Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia and is board certified in family practice. He started, but did not finish, a residency in obstetrics-gynecology, authorities said.

Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore said: "He does not know how to do an abortion. Once he got them there, he saw dollar signs and did abortions that other people wouldn't do."

A local CBS station reported that around$240,000 in cash had been found when his house was searched.

It added that Gosnell had previously insisted he was innocent of any crimes and predicted he would be acquitted if he was charged.
 

无名的

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This, like many liberal issues, seems reasonable in theory, but in reality, it's a complete monstrosity. There are very extreme circumstances that might justify abortion, like rape or incest, but I'm sure there are still people that would adopt those children. I guess my perspective changed after having a child.
 

kevm3

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Supposedly 55 million people have been aborted since Roe vs. Wade. The number is staggering if you think about it. Couple that with the recent news report about fetuses being used to heat hospitals and it makes you really wonder... what's next? chopping up fetuses and using them as slop for animals or feeding them to humans in some other form or fashion?
 

Domingo Halliburton

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Supposedly 55 million people have been aborted since Roe vs. Wade. The number is staggering if you think about it. Couple that with the recent news report about fetuses being used to heat hospitals and it makes you really wonder... what's next? chopping up fetuses and using them as slop for animals or feeding them to humans in some other form or fashion?

there's a whole issue of what is life...is it a few cells? Is this going to be the thread to debate this in?



@DEAD7 how libeterian are you on this issue?
 

Calmye

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Defending the alternative all but endorses turning a woman's body part a Ward of the state. I shouldn't have explain why allowing the government (the collective citizens) to have complete dominion over parts of our bodies is a terrible idea.

Plus baby killing is a widely acceptable practice in the Bible.
This is a ridiculous argument. Justifying non medically necessary or strong sercemstan abortion with an argument of government overreach is just simply wrong breh. To say a women can have a great tool need partying have sex, get pregnant and have a selective procedure like this done just to correct what she feels is a mistake is wrong. How exactly is saying you can't have an abortion making a woman's body a word of the state. That's like saying seat health laws take away our individual right as a people to die in a car reck.

]
no one is arguing for this...abortions should be safe, legal and as rare as you can make them.

@kevm3
Yes people are fighting for this everyday breh. Read up on the side effect of abortion, read up on the amount of abortions in America compared to other super powers, read up on how this procedure became legal in the first place... do your research and then come back to this thread and comment
 

Domingo Halliburton

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This is a ridiculous argument. Justifying non medically necessary or strong sercemstan abortion with an argument of government overreach is just simply wrong breh. To say a women can have a great tool need partying have sex, get pregnant and have a selective procedure like this done just to correct what she feels is a mistake is wrong. How exactly is saying you can't have an abortion making a woman's body a word of the state. That's like saying seat health laws take away our individual right as a people to die in a car reck.


Yes people are fighting for this everyday breh. Read up on the side effect of abortion, read up on the amount of abortions in America compared to other super powers, read up on how this procedure became legal in the first place... do your research and then come back to this thread and comment

are you a woman?
 
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Calmye

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there's a whole issue of what is life...is it a few cells? Is this going to be the thread to debate this in?



@DEAD7 how libeterian are you on this issue?
you can watch those videos and say those aren't life?this question of life is a smoke screen.It's completely obvious life begins at conception. The same people fighting for abortion are the same people saying life started from a single cell organism. How can life start from a single cell on one hand, then life only starts after birth on the other?
 

Domingo Halliburton

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you can watch those videos and say those aren't life?this question of life is a smoke screen.It's completely obvious life begins at conception. The same people fighting for abortion are the same people saying life started from a single cell organism. How can life start from a single cell on one hand, then life only starts after birth on the other?

that's what I was asking and that's your definition. A lot of people would disagree it begins at conception
 

Domingo Halliburton

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Naw breh proud father of three. Lets try and keep this thread on topic. Either comment on the videos or your views on abortion


I wish your family well. I'm not being sarcastic.

my point was I think as a man you can't judge a girl when she gets an abortion.

I'm pro-choice and you're pro-life were not going to agree and I respect where you're coming from
 
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